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If there was credible evidence for a method for converting homosexuals...

Papa bull said:
Right. Going PURELY under the assumption that (a) it's inborn, (b) it's biological and (c) it occurs and can be tested and cured in the womb.

I don't think any of those are actually valid assumptions, but just for the sake of the hypothetical discussion, I thought it worthwhile to play along with these assumptions to see where it went.
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If you assume something you have made an ass out of you and me.

Ass-u-me.

The first assumption was that homosexuality is not acceptable.

I am sure if we could manipulate our children to be what ever we wished them to be the earth would be a vastly different place. Good thing we don't have that ability. Wouldn't want to live in a world of magazine models and football players.
 
VanceMack said:
Like grandpappy always said...why thats just horse****, son...

No one is trying to stop you from doing whatever the **** you want to do in your bedroom with a consenting adult. Geeeezus man...Put down the ****ing cross...there has GOT to be better uses for the wood.

The fact of the matter is if it werent for the left, the topic would barely if ever come up on this site. When it DOES come up and people discuss it and (gasp) dare to have a differing opinion, check and see who gets (pardon the pun) all butthurt.
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LOL right, look thru the sexuality forums and count how many threads are made by far-right types like NP.
 
chromium said:
LOL right, look thru the sexuality forums and count how many threads are made by far-right types like NP.
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I'd bet it pales in comparison to CT, Agent J, etc.
 
CLAX1911 said:
If you assume something you have made an ass out of you and me.

Ass-u-me.

The first assumption was that homosexuality is not acceptable.

I am sure if we could manipulate our children to be what ever we wished them to be the earth would be a vastly different place. Good thing we don't have that ability. Wouldn't want to live in a world of magazine models and football players.
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If you assume something, you get to hear someone get all puffed up like a puppy pecker and tell you a clever little tale about an ass and you and me like they just made it up on the spot and no one else ever feckin' heard it before.

You need assumptions if you're having a hypothetical discussion.
 
VanceMack said:
I'd bet it pales in comparison to CT, Agent J, etc.
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What kind of reaction do you expect anyway. Like really, people get upset when they are called "defect, mentally ill, perverts, deviants" should i go on? Some of these are in thread titles even.
 
VanceMack said:
Like grandpappy always said...why thats just horse****, son...

No one is trying to stop you from doing whatever the **** you want to do in your bedroom with a consenting adult. Geeeezus man...Put down the ****ing cross...there has GOT to be better uses for the wood.

The fact of the matter is if it werent for the left, the topic would barely if ever come up on this site. When it DOES come up and people discuss it and (gasp) dare to have a differing opinion, check and see who gets (pardon the pun) all butthurt.
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You aren't trying to tell me I it's wrong and I should stop. But many people are. There are still places in the united states where it is illegal. Those places are trying to tell you it's wrong.

I am mostly conservative. I notice people mention the right and the left when they realize they aren't really arguing with me. They are arguing some manufactured political party nonsense.

I am not on the cross, I don't know why you would say that. I simply disagree with your definition of what a homosexual is. I am not telling you to get out of my bedroom, you were never there. I mention policies that are in my bedroom. You can't deny that state and local laws that tell you what you and consenting adults can do is state intrusion into your bedroom.

Pretty sure the political spectrum is of no real importance to this issue. Really want it is it's snake handlers sabre rattling. I have seen several people say that homosexuality is going to end the earth. Now surely you can't believe such nonsense. But that is from people on both sides of the spectrum. Then you have people that don't think it's a big deal. Based on your whining about the left I assume you are in the right of the spectrum. And it doesn't seem to mean the end of the world to you. So this issue isn't cut along the political spectrum.

Yeah democrats use gay people, promise them goodies to win their votes. I am no sucker. I want to keep my guns, my God and my wealth. I don't need their scraps.

Look dude I am not butt hurt (not just because I am a top) but because you can't hurt me.

Some people are sensitive and get hurt easily. I don't. I have a thick skin. I just don't think that the state had any place to tell you what you can do when there are no victims or any measurable negative. But than again I am a libertarian and believe liberty should be first.
 
CLAX1911 said:
You aren't trying to tell me I it's wrong and I should stop. But many people are. There are still places in the united states where it is illegal. Those places are trying to tell you it's wrong.

I am mostly conservative. I notice people mention the right and the left when they realize they aren't really arguing with me. They are arguing some manufactured political party nonsense.

I am not on the cross, I don't know why you would say that. I simply disagree with your definition of what a homosexual is. I am not telling you to get out of my bedroom, you were never there. I mention policies that are in my bedroom. You can't deny that state and local laws that tell you what you and consenting adults can do is state intrusion into your bedroom.

Pretty sure the political spectrum is of no real importance to this issue. Really want it is it's snake handlers sabre rattling. I have seen several people say that homosexuality is going to end the earth. Now surely you can't believe such nonsense. But that is from people on both sides of the spectrum. Then you have people that don't think it's a big deal. Based on your whining about the left I assume you are in the right of the spectrum. And it doesn't seem to mean the end of the world to you. So this issue isn't cut along the political spectrum.

Yeah democrats use gay people, promise them goodies to win their votes. I am no sucker. I want to keep my guns, my God and my wealth. I don't need their scraps.

Look dude I am not butt hurt (not just because I am a top) but because you can't hurt me.

Some people are sensitive and get hurt easily. I don't. I have a thick skin. I just don't think that the state had any place to tell you what you can do when there are no victims or any measurable negative. But than again I am a libertarian and believe liberty should be first.
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Reread your comment and you should easily be able to see why you come across as butthurt. Dont care what goes on in your bedroom (and Im not going to bother rereading the thread, but did anyone here try to tell you you CANT be gay?) and last I checked the battles being fought across the country are against long standing existing laws against gay marriage...NOT over what two consenting adults do in the bedroom. Now...mind you...Im completely fine with pressing the case for gay marriage. I dont agree with it personally but if it were to pass tomorrow, well...the sun would still come up and life would still go on. With or without gay marriage, I hope for peoples happiness. Theres just no need to be overly dramatic about the issue.
 
Papa bull said:
If you assume something, you get to hear someone get all puffed up like a puppy pecker and tell you a clever little tale about an ass and you and me like they just made it up on the spot and no one else ever feckin' heard it before.

You need assumptions if you're having a hypothetical discussion.
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I don't bother with hypotheses. Waste of energy. It's basically what if games.

And of course chest pounding by someone who thinks they are clever. And inserts false emotions into the discussion like getting puffed up like a "puppy pecked", btw never heard that one before, so they can attempt to sound clever.

I am not puffed up. Assumptions are of no real value. What is wrong with just not knowing?
 
chromium said:
What kind of reaction do you expect anyway. Like really, people get upset when they are called "defect, mentally ill, perverts, deviants" should i go on? Some of these are in thread titles even.
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Good thing there isnt a tat for those tits, huh? Otherwise, there might be some regular uncivil-like conversation a goin on. Take a position against gay marriage and see how quickly the labels get to flyin. Geeeezus man...its like you want to step into a boxing ring and throw punches and not have the other guy pop you back.

I fully recognize some people (you mentioned NP...thats a good example) start ridiculous anti-gay threads. I dont know whats in them because based on who has started them, I dont bother reading them.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Yeah, it certainly is obvious who is raising the fuss. Busybodies.

I see state laws forbidding people to do things in their bedrooms with concern adults. I see people waging war on this forum obsessing about what people do in their bedrooms.

I don't really make a fuss. Don't see any of the gay members making a fuss.

I may argue with someone about what homosexuality is, but that is differing opinions. People are allowed to have those, and that is really what a discussion board is for is it not?
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Have fun
 
VanceMack said:
Reread your comment and you should easily be able to see why you come across as butthurt. Dont care what goes on in your bedroom (and Im not going to bother rereading the thread, but did anyone here try to tell you you CANT be gay?) and last I checked the battles being fought across the country are against long standing existing laws against gay marriage...NOT over what two consenting adults do in the bedroom. Now...mind you...Im completely fine with pressing the case for gay marriage. I dont agree with it personally but if it were to pass tomorrow, well...the sun would still come up and life would still go on. With or without gay marriage, I hope for peoples happiness. Theres just no need to be overly dramatic about the issue.
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You may have interpreted my post as being hurt (not sure why my butt is of interest to you) but that it's poor interpretation skills on your part. Or more likely it's a poor debate tactic. Say the opponent is emotionally unstable. Thus attempting to discredit them based on personal emotions.

Yes I have had several people tell me I can't be gay. I even had people try and force me not to be gay.

The argument now is marriage, marriage is within your own house so yes states are attempting to tell you what you can do in your own house. That is what I am against because I am conservative, I don't think the government should be involved in your personal decisions and that includes being married. The state already has enough control over my life why would anybody want to give them control over their marriage? It sounds like a big government thing to me.

Your personal views on marriage equality, while I respect them I don't find them all that relevant.
 
If your marriage is confined to your house at all times, there would be no debate. No, marriage is not just within your house.
 
CLAX1911 said:
You may have interpreted my post as being hurt (not sure why my butt is of interest to you) but that it's poor interpretation skills on your part. Or more likely it's a poor debate tactic. Say the opponent is emotionally unstable. Thus attempting to discredit them based on personal emotions.

Yes I have had several people tell me I can't be gay. I even had people try and force me not to be gay.

The argument now is marriage, marriage is within your own house so yes states are attempting to tell you what you can do in your own house. That is what I am against because I am conservative, I don't think the government should be involved in your personal decisions and that includes being married. The state already has enough control over my life why would anybody want to give them control over their marriage? It sounds like a big government thing to me.

Your personal views on marriage equality, while I respect them I don't find them all that relevant.
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Really? You have people telling me you "cant be gay"? Who are they? Lets go kick their ass!
 
VanceMack said:
Really? You have people telling me you "cant be gay"? Who are they? Lets go kick their ass!
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They don't any more, I wouldn't want to kick their assess they are my family. There are others that continue to tell me such things but they aren't worth the ass kicking. Yet can tell me all they wish, it's of no concern to me.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I don't see any contradiction.
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:) With the Lord there is always Hope.

You are obsessing with the sexuality. You seem to be caught up in the worship of heterosexuality not in Jesus.
My faith is strong in spite of my sexuality.
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err... no. You explicitly state that you will accept Jesus only if He does not restrict your sexuality in ways that you would not like. You are valuing your sexuality over Jesus.

I don't think homosexuality is a sin.
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:shrug: It's been made pretty clear throughout the Old and New Testament that this is not the position for those who wish to place God first in their lives, and seek to see the world as He does, rather than through the lens of our own petty self-interest.

I regret a sexuality based religion
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:( Then why not seek to change your faith from that status?

I resist as much temptation as I can. I could always be stronger.
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Well enough said for us all.

That is what healing is, not telling people they are contradictions.
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All of us are contradictions - we all sin, recognizing the sin when we do so. All of us are broken - love is a salve for that pain; that's why we are called to show Christs' love to each other. What would be the purpose, otherwise, if it did not edify others?

If it is a sexuality based church, meaning that only heterosexuals are praised and homosexuals are shunned and told their desires are wrong than it is an enslavement machine.
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Heterosexuals shouldn't be praised for being heterosexuals, and homosexuals shouldn't be shunned for being homosexuals. No one should be shunned for their temptation (though some may be protected from it - alcoholics maybe should take grape juice with Communion rather than wine). Both should be informed that their sinful desires are, in fact, sinful, and (lovingly) helped to resist temptation and correct themselves. Homosexuals are no more enslaved in a machine by a Church that believes that engaging in homosexual acts are sinful than I am enslaved by my Church which tells me that cheating on my wife with Jennifer Anniston, or using pornography to fantasize about other women is sinful. Teaching and seeking to reach a more Godly lifestyle is not enslaving - no one forces you there, forces you to attend, whips you if you fail.
 
Papa bull said:
You wouldn't have to force anyone into the procedure to cure the homosexuality in the womb. Not many mothers wouldn't take the opportunity to sort out such a thing because it's natural for mothers to want normal children that will grow up, get married and give them grandchildren. All you'd have to do is make it available and homosexuality would go "poof" and disappear forever in a single generation.
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And I, a homosexual, grew up, I'm getting married, and gave my parents grandchildren. My sexual orientation didn't prevent any of those things.
 
cpwill said:
:) With the Lord there is always Hope.
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Right which is why this anti homosexual (crap is anti Christian.

err... no. You explicitly state that you will accept Jesus only if He does not restrict your sexuality in ways that you would not like. You are valuing your sexuality over Jesus.
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I started no such thing. Quote any post where I did.

:shrug: It's been made pretty clear throughout the Old and New Testament that this is not the position for those who wish to place God first in their lives, and seek to see the world as He does, rather than through the lens of our own petty self-interest.
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Funny you seem to see things through your own petty self interests.


:( Then why not seek to change your faith from that status?
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I have, I left behind the nonsense that you are saying. Moved from a false God with conditional love to a real God that loves unconditionally.

I have abandoned religions that seem to care so much about sexuality.


All of us are contradictions - we all sin, recognizing the sin when we do so. All of us are broken - love is a salve for that pain; that's why we are called to show Christs' love to each other. What would be the purpose, otherwise, if it did not edify others?
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I don't see how homosexuality in and of itself is a sin. I have seen no bible verses on such a thing.


Heterosexuals shouldn't be praised for being heterosexuals, and homosexuals shouldn't be shunned for being homosexuals. No one should be shunned for their temptation (though some may be protected from it - alcoholics maybe should take grape juice with Communion rather than wine). Both should be informed that their sinful desires are, in fact, sinful, and (lovingly) helped to resist temptation and correct themselves. Homosexuals are no more enslaved in a machine by a Church that believes that engaging in homosexual acts are sinful than I am enslaved by my Church which tells me that cheating on my wife with Jennifer Anniston, or using pornography to fantasize about other women is sinful. Teaching and seeking to reach a more Godly lifestyle is not enslaving - no one forces you there, forces you to attend, whips you if you fail.
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Adultery and drunkenness is a sin I don't see where homosexuality is.
 
wolfsgirl said:
And I, a homosexual, grew up, I'm getting married, and gave my parents grandchildren. My sexual orientation didn't prevent any of those things.
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If there had been early detection and treatment, you wouldn't have to be posting this. You just wouldn't have been homosexual. Why not nip it in the bud before it even happens. You might not get it because you're a homosexual bit expecting parents would get it. And then you wouldn't have had to deal with all those confusing issues of being homosexual and having a wife and making children. And you wouldn't have missed a thing because you wouldn't have had those urges to engage in same-sex carnal behaviors. This discussion would never happen.

If there was a preventative measure, of course. I think it's all a matter of choice, though, so it's purely hypothetical. There isn't a cure for behavioral choices.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I don't bother with hypotheses. Waste of energy. It's basically what if games.

And of course chest pounding by someone who thinks they are clever. And inserts false emotions into the discussion like getting puffed up like a "puppy pecked", btw never heard that one before, so they can attempt to sound clever.

I am not puffed up. Assumptions are of no real value. What is wrong with just not knowing?
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If you don't discuss hypotheticals then you shouldn't be in this discussion. Any cure for homosexuality is purely hypothetical. It's behavior. There is no vaccine for behaviors.
 
Papa bull said:
If there had been early detection and treatment, you wouldn't have to be posting this. You just wouldn't have been homosexual. Why not nip it in the bud before it even happens. You might not get it because you're a homosexual bit expecting parents would get it. And then you wouldn't have had to deal with all those confusing issues of being homosexual and having a wife and making children. And you wouldn't have missed a thing because you wouldn't have had those urges to engage in same-sex carnal behaviors. This discussion would never happen.

If there was a preventative measure, of course. I think it's all a matter of choice, though, so it's purely hypothetical. There isn't a cure for behavioral choices.
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If obesity didn't exist we wouldn't talk about that either.

If there was way too Taylor make a baby yeah I imagine most people would be very similar.

I dint speculate on what causes it. It isn't really very important to me.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Yeah democrats use gay people, promise them goodies to win their votes. I am no sucker. I want to keep my guns, my God and my wealth. I don't need their scraps.
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Yeah in my lifetime dems have been so useless on this. DADT was repealed and that's all i can think of.
 
Individuals should have the freedom to explore their own life path in whatever way they see fit, which includes seeking conversion therapy if they think it will help them. I don't believe it works and I think the organizations pushing for it are all right-wing religious fanatics. That said.... people should have the freedom to try that, if they think it's their path.

My problem with conversion therapy is that it has a political agenda. The people running in are just trying to stop teh gay and they don't have respect for people who self-identify as gay and have same-sex relations. If it's real medicine and these people are real healers, then they should also support gay people who don't feel anything is wrong with them. But they don't, and that's why I believe it is quackery.
 
Papa bull said:
And no one would miss it, either.
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If this was utopia we wouldn't have any problems. Nobody would miss cancer or going bald or left handed Ness.

The problem is these things exist, this isn't a utopia. That is why I don't care for the what if game.

I find it much more productive to try and accept the things we cannot change than to ask what if we can change them.
 
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