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Why the slow computer?

SmokeAndMirrors said:
So I'm not quite clear here. Is it running fine now, with the SSD? Or are you still having issues after booting?

There are all kinds of reasons a computer might slow down. Bits of the RAM or HDD may become corrupted, updates can make things buggy... With Apple, there's another possibility, which is whether the update they release immediately prior to a new model coming out intentionally bogs down the system of the older models as part of planned obsolescence. This is pretty much confirmed in iPhones, and they might be carrying it over to Macs now. I notice they're about to release a new Macbook in a couple months...

So, here's what I'd do, if it's still inexplicably slower than usual.

First, I'd run some diagnostics on the RAM. Make sure there aren't any bad sectors.

If that comes back clean, then it's most likely one of two things. Either the accumulated and inevitable bugginess of updates and patches are slowing things down, or Apple is bogging down older machines in anticipation of a new release. In either case, restoring your 2015 backup should hopefully reduce the problem. If it does, stick with it 'til the computer dies.

Hopefully you can get this figured out.
Click to expand...

What I would say is that since installing the ssd my computer has improved to about the same as mid-2015 when I had the regular hard drive and the computer was operating optimally. I'll run a diagnostic on the memory after work today. If that turns out fine, then the nuclear option it is. What I hate about that is for some reason I've always had a miserable time backing up and restoring my browser settings and passwords.

As a rule of thumb I never ever ever update my ios. Looks like I'll have to extend that philosophy to my mac now.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
So I'm not quite clear here. Is it running fine now, with the SSD? Or are you still having issues after booting?

There are all kinds of reasons a computer might slow down. Bits of the RAM or HDD may become corrupted, updates can make things buggy... With Apple, there's another possibility, which is whether the update they release immediately prior to a new model coming out intentionally bogs down the system of the older models as part of planned obsolescence. This is pretty much confirmed in iPhones, and they might be carrying it over to Macs now. I notice they're about to release a new Macbook in a couple months...

So, here's what I'd do, if it's still inexplicably slower than usual.

First, I'd run some diagnostics on the RAM. Make sure there aren't any bad sectors.

If that comes back clean, then it's most likely one of two things. Either the accumulated and inevitable bugginess of updates and patches are slowing things down, or Apple is bogging down older machines in anticipation of a new release. In either case, restoring your 2015 backup should hopefully reduce the problem. If it does, stick with it 'til the computer dies.

Hopefully you can get this figured out.
Click to expand...

The memory diagnostic froze almost immediately. Is it safe to assume at this point that two shiny new memory card purchases are in my future?
 
Cardinal said:
The memory diagnostic froze almost immediately. Is it safe to assume at this point that two shiny new memory card purchases are in my future?
Click to expand...

Hmm... Not quite. Still lots of things it could be. Did you get an error message?

If you had a RAM problem so severe it crashed the diagnostics, I would almost expect you to be seeing more problems in day-to-day use. Without knowing what the diagnostics ran into, you have to consider basically everything that could be interfering with reading the memory.

Did you run it in Safe Mode? If not, try that first before you tinker with anything else. It might be that too much of the system was in use while it was running the test. It's even possible the diagnostics were actually still running, but just slowed down your computer so much that it wasn't updating as it happened.

Running it in Safe Mode also helps you isolate software issues from hardware issues. If it still goes wonky in Safe Mode, leave it alone for a good long while. It might just be getting sluggish and take quite a while to update as it's testing. If it's at all possible for it to return some kind of information to you, it's worth waiting for so you know what's actually wrong. If it's still frozen after an hour or two of waiting, or it returns an error without completing the diagnostic, then maybe time to give up and restart.

So, open it up, make sure the memory slots are clean, give the RAM a little push to make sure it's seated completely, do the same with the SSD cable, and then run the test again in Safe Mode and let it sit and work itself out.

But if it freezes again, unfortunately that still won't tell you exactly what hardware since, obviously, you were never able to get the actual report from the diagnostic tool. It could be the RAM, or the motherboard, or a bad cable connecting the SSD.

If it still freezes, and you have multiple RAM slots, or some definitely good RAM on hand, try switching the sticks between slots.

If you have two RAM slots, take out one, test. Move it to the other slot, test. Repeat with the other stick.

If you have one that's definitely good, but not in your computer, try repeating the test with the one that's definitely good, one slot at a time.

If it only freezes with RAM in one particular slot, then the slot on the motherboard is bad.

If it only freezes with one particular stick of RAM, then it's that stick.

If it freezes no matter what, even with verifiably good RAM, it's probably a bad cable or a more systemic issue with the motherboard, I'm thinking.

Try getting a new cable first, since that's cheap and having an extra is never a bad thing.

If it's still freezing during diagnostics with a new cable... I'd take it to Apple and get the motherboard looked at.
 
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Cardinal said:
Thanks, but contrary to popular belief, I've read that there's actually a lot less malware associated with porn sites than with, say cnet (shudder) because porn sites are simply so experienced at dealing with the issue.

Not that I go to porn sites, mind you.
Click to expand...

Oh we believe you ... ;)
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Hmm... Not quite. Still lots of things it could be. Did you get an error message?

If you had a RAM problem so severe it crashed the diagnostics, I would almost expect you to be seeing more problems in day-to-day use. Without knowing what the diagnostics ran into, you have to consider basically everything that could be interfering with reading the memory.

Did you run it in Safe Mode? If not, try that first before you tinker with anything else. It might be that too much of the system was in use while it was running the test. It's even possible the diagnostics were actually still running, but just slowed down your computer so much that it wasn't updating as it happened.

Running it in Safe Mode also helps you isolate software issues from hardware issues. If it still goes wonky in Safe Mode, leave it alone for a good long while. It might just be getting sluggish and take quite a while to update as it's testing. If it's at all possible for it to return some kind of information to you, it's worth waiting for so you know what's actually wrong. If it's still frozen after an hour or two of waiting, or it returns an error without completing the diagnostic, then maybe time to give up and restart.

So, open it up, make sure the memory slots are clean, give the RAM a little push to make sure it's seated completely, do the same with the SSD cable, and then run the test again in Safe Mode and let it sit and work itself out.

But if it freezes again, unfortunately that still won't tell you exactly what hardware since, obviously, you were never able to get the actual report from the diagnostic tool. It could be the RAM, or the motherboard, or a bad cable connecting the SSD.

If it still freezes, and you have multiple RAM slots, or some definitely good RAM on hand, try switching the sticks between slots.

If you have two RAM slots, take out one, test. Move it to the other slot, test. Repeat with the other stick.

If you have one that's definitely good, but not in your computer, try repeating the test with the one that's definitely good, one slot at a time.

If it only freezes with RAM in one particular slot, then the slot on the motherboard is bad.

If it only freezes with one particular stick of RAM, then it's that stick.

If it freezes no matter what, even with verifiably good RAM, it's probably a bad cable or a more systemic issue with the motherboard, I'm thinking.

Try getting a new cable first, since that's cheap and having an extra is never a bad thing.

If it's still freezing during diagnostics with a new cable... I'd take it to Apple and get the motherboard looked at.
Click to expand...

On a mac, I'm pretty sure you can only do a hardware diagnostic in safe mode. In order to get there you have to restart the computer and hit "d" for an independent window to open and do the diagnostic. You don't get there through the normal desktop interface.

So if I understand you correctly, first switch out the ssd cable and try again. Then play musical chairs with the memory cards after cleaning out the slots. If the issue persists (I don't have other memory cards hanging around, unfortunately), time to have Apple look at the motherboard. Yes?

Oh, stupid question: it's fine to have just one slot being occupied, right? I don't remember, when I first bought the computer, if it had one 8gb card in one slot, or two 4gb cards in both slots.
 
Cardinal said:
On a mac, I'm pretty sure you can only do a hardware diagnostic in safe mode. In order to get there you have to restart the computer and hit "d" for an independent window to open and do the diagnostic. You don't get there through the normal desktop interface.

So if I understand you correctly, first switch out the ssd cable and try again. Then play musical chairs with the memory cards after cleaning out the slots. If the issue persists (I don't have other memory cards hanging around, unfortunately), time to have Apple look at the motherboard. Yes?

Oh, stupid question: it's fine to have just one slot being occupied, right? I don't remember, when I first bought the computer, if it had one 8gb card in one slot, or two 4gb cards in both slots.
Click to expand...

Ah, ok, sweet.

Yeah, getting the cable first might be a good call. It's cheap and quick to re-check.

Yup, you got it. It'll take a while, but might be worth it if you can avoid going to Apple if it's just a bad stick.

It will run slower with only one stick, but should be fine.

If it's a bad slot and for the above reason, you just can't live with how it runs on only one stick of RAM, go to Apple.

Changing out a motherboard is basically major heart surgery. I'm not hugely familiar with opening up Macs, but I do know they tend to be much less alterable in the past few years as they've slimmed down, and with the most recent models, trying to get at the motherboard without breaking it is basically impossible. Even on a PC that had an easier design, I still wouldn't feel comfortable doing it on a slim laptop.

I googled it for the 2012-ish Macbook models, and I'm coming up with really mixed results as to whether it's possible to do without breaking it. My take-away is "physically possible, but not recommended unless you are a super-geek, and willing to risk failure."

So if you get through all this and find that it's most likely a motherboard issue that you want to fix, I would send it to Apple to be safe.
 
Cardinal said:
So my computer has done what older computers do: it's gotten slow. That said, I've baffled by the why of it. To give some specs, my processor is a 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7. I have 16G memory of which more than 10G is very rarely used. My startup programs have been carefully pruned and I've painstakingly sifted through my activity monitor to search for bull**** processes. The cpu load seems respectably low (currently 1.83% on system, 5.84% on user). I also went through application support programs whereupon I did find Spigot which I promptly nuked. Finally, I was using a 7200rpm 1TB hard drive that was only ever 1/3 full at any time. So I still get the spinning wheel and upgrade to a 1TB sata 3 ssd. Sure, the startup time of my computer and programs have obviously improved, but I still get the spinning wheel that I never got when I first bought the computer.

Finally, I'm running the same boring programs that I did when I bought the computer four years ago.

What am I missing here?
Click to expand...

Processors ram hard drives etc tend to break down over time, slowly losing performance. The worst I have seen on breakdowns has been cheap ram used on lower model computers,That start losing functionality in certain portions of memory.


Also especially when it comes to internet, every site has gone hogwild on popups, flash and other functions etc. Every year the demands get heftier, it is to the point I have a cheap pc, but I can run video games and use less power than my web browser does just opening up. Also if you have updated your os ever, every update for windows mac and linux rob more power.


Heck 15 years ago you could comfortably run sites like youtube on a p2, and get away with running a 133 mhz p1 with slow load speeds. Now a modern processor bogs down just loading the front page. As bad as it is, I would not be surprised if pc manufacturors paid major sites to write their code as slow and power hungry as possible to force people to upgrade their pc every year.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Ah, ok, sweet.

Yeah, getting the cable first might be a good call. It's cheap and quick to re-check.

Yup, you got it. It'll take a while, but might be worth it if you can avoid going to Apple if it's just a bad stick.

It will run slower with only one stick, but should be fine.

If it's a bad slot and for the above reason, you just can't live with how it runs on only one stick of RAM, go to Apple.

Changing out a motherboard is basically major heart surgery. I'm not hugely familiar with opening up Macs, but I do know they tend to be much less alterable in the past few years as they've slimmed down, and with the most recent models, trying to get at the motherboard without breaking it is basically impossible. Even on a PC that had an easier design, I still wouldn't feel comfortable doing it on a slim laptop.

I googled it for the 2012-ish Macbook models, and I'm coming up with really mixed results as to whether it's possible to do without breaking it. My take-away is "physically possible, but not recommended unless you are a super-geek, and willing to risk failure."

So if you get through all this and find that it's most likely a motherboard issue that you want to fix, I would send it to Apple to be safe.
Click to expand...

I found a desktop ram checker and ran it in unsafe mode, since in safe mode it kept freezing. Here's what I got. I'm not a technical geek, but I don't typically associate "failure!" with "success!"


Memtest version 4.22 (64-bit)
Copyright (C) 2004 Charles Cazabon
Copyright (C) 2004-2008 Tony Scaminaci (Macintosh port)
Licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2 only

Mac OS X 10.10.5 (14F1605) running in multiuser mode
Memory Page Size: 4096
System has 8 Intel core(s) with SSE
Requested memory: 10398MB (10903625728 bytes)
Available memory: 10398MB (10903625728 bytes)
Allocated memory: 10398MB (10903625728 bytes) at local address 0x0000000101800000
Attempting memory lock... locked successfully
Partitioning memory into 2 comparison buffers...
Buffer A: 5199MB (5451812864 bytes) starts at local address 0x0000000101800000
Buffer B: 5199MB (5451812864 bytes) starts at local address 0x0000000246741000

Running 1 test sequence... (CTRL-C to quit)

Test sequence 1 of 1:

Running tests on full 10398MB region...
Stuck Address : setting 1 of 16 ok
Linear PRN : setting 1 of 16 ok
Running comparison tests using 5199MB buffers...
Random Value : \ ok
Compare XOR : ok
Compare SUB : ok
Compare MUL : ok
Compare DIV : ok
Compare OR : ok
Compare AND : ok
Sequential Increment: ok
Solid Bits : setting 1 of 64

FAILURE! Data mismatch at local BUFA address 0x0000000177b4c330, BUFB address 0x00000002bca8d330
BUFA Data: 0xffffffffffffffff, BUFB Data: 0xffff7fffffffffff

Block Sequential : setting 1 of 256
 
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beerftw said:
Processors ram hard drives etc tend to break down over time, slowly losing performance. The worst I have seen on breakdowns has been cheap ram used on lower model computers,That start losing functionality in certain portions of memory.


Also especially when it comes to internet, every site has gone hogwild on popups, flash and other functions etc. Every year the demands get heftier, it is to the point I have a cheap pc, but I can run video games and use less power than my web browser does just opening up. Also if you have updated your os ever, every update for windows mac and linux rob more power.


Heck 15 years ago you could comfortably run sites like youtube on a p2, and get away with running a 133 mhz p1 with slow load speeds. Now a modern processor bogs down just loading the front page. As bad as it is, I would not be surprised if pc manufacturors paid major sites to write their code as slow and power hungry as possible to force people to upgrade their pc every year.
Click to expand...

I updated from Mountain Lion to Yosemite back in the summer, and I didn't notice a performance degradation. In fact I'd say the performance was either equal or even better. I'd say I first started noticing degradation back in roughly November or December, perhaps.

I've avoided updating to the latest os, El Capitan. No, I'm not calling you El Capitan. El Capitan is the name of the latest osx.
 
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Cardinal said:
I found a desktop ram checker and ran it in unsafe mode, since in safe mode it kept freezing. Here's what I got. I'm not a technical geek, but I don't typically associate "failure!" with "success!"

Memtest version 4.22 (64-bit)
Copyright (C) 2004 Charles Cazabon
Copyright (C) 2004-2008 Tony Scaminaci (Macintosh port)
Licensed under the GNU General Public License version 2 only

Mac OS X 10.10.5 (14F1605) running in multiuser mode
Memory Page Size: 4096
System has 8 Intel core(s) with SSE
Requested memory: 10398MB (10903625728 bytes)
Available memory: 10398MB (10903625728 bytes)
Allocated memory: 10398MB (10903625728 bytes) at local address 0x0000000101800000
Attempting memory lock... locked successfully
Partitioning memory into 2 comparison buffers...
Buffer A: 5199MB (5451812864 bytes) starts at local address 0x0000000101800000
Buffer B: 5199MB (5451812864 bytes) starts at local address 0x0000000246741000

Running 1 test sequence... (CTRL-C to quit)

Test sequence 1 of 1:

Running tests on full 10398MB region...
Stuck Address : setting 1 of 16 ok
Linear PRN : setting 1 of 16 ok
Running comparison tests using 5199MB buffers...
Random Value : \ ok
Compare XOR : ok
Compare SUB : ok
Compare MUL : ok
Compare DIV : ok
Compare OR : ok
Compare AND : ok
Sequential Increment: ok
Solid Bits : setting 1 of 64

FAILURE! Data mismatch at local BUFA address 0x0000000177b4c330, BUFB address 0x00000002bca8d330
BUFA Data: 0xffffffffffffffff, BUFB Data: 0xffff7fffffffffff

Block Sequential : setting 1 of 256
Click to expand...

Yup, lookin' that way!

To be sure, put that stick in the other slot and run it again, just in case it's the slot. If it fails again, I think you've probably found the bottleneck.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Yup, lookin' that way!

To be sure, put that stick in the other slot and run it again, just in case it's the slot. If it fails again, I think you've probably found the bottleneck.
Click to expand...

Can you discern from the log which slot it's in? Because I have both slots filled.
 
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Cardinal said:
Can you discern from the log which slot it's in? Because I have both slots filled.
Click to expand...

Not sure, honestly. I am only a semi-competent geek. I just eliminate all other possibilities. I don't speak code especially well. So, I'd test one stick with nothing in the other slot, then switch slots, and do it again. If you get no errors, then that's probably good news: most likely just the other stick of RAM. But test it to be sure.

As I said, while this may make your computer rather slow, it shouldn't cause anything insane to happen to only have one stick in.
 
SmokeAndMirrors said:
Not sure, honestly. I am only a semi-competent geek. I just eliminate all other possibilities. I don't speak code especially well. So, I'd test one stick with nothing in the other slot, then switch slots, and do it again. If you get no errors, then that's probably good news: most likely just the other stick of RAM. But test it to be sure.

As I said, while this may make your computer rather slow, it shouldn't cause anything insane to happen to only have one stick in.
Click to expand...

Okey dokey. Memory stick musical chairs it is, then. At least I've isolated it from, god forbid, the motherboard.
 
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