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Sick of it

I was agreeing with you until you decided to take a pot shot at religion.

I think the shot was at god not religion. Big difference.
 
I rarely do this, but I'm going to pass on this one. I'm just not in the mood for that particular discussion tonight.

Are you in the mood today? :2razz:
 
I'm wondering at what point parents turn the corner and decide they can't tolerate their off-the-rails kid (such as the kids that are in constant trouble at school / with the law / repeatedly causing issues - etc) and turn their back on them? How many wrongs and troublesome issues does it take for a parent to get to the point of complete and total apathy? To that point where people thinking your a terrible parent for wanting to dump your kid off on the church's front step doesn't even phase you?

well we are not all born equal thus I would say everyone's limit is different for turning that corner

I think a consideration has to be made for the other members living in the household. If there is a clear and present danger for instance then action has to be immediate. And let's face it, that happens. It happens where locks need to be placed on the inside of doors for safety.

Or even if this troubled child is requiring so much work, and so much effort that every care giver in the home is beginning to fray. At that point of utter exhaustion, it can not continue.

Also not every community has a good support system or a capable support system. In my community here a not for profit that I worked in for two years has an exceptional program for parents that have exhausted every other possible method. These kids get admitted for care at that point. The family have to be okay with complete family participation with the program and some are not up for that type of intrusion into their lives.

Until people have experienced such disruption in their lives, it is hard for them to imagine just how impossible it can become.
 
How many children do you and your husband have?

None, quite happily so, and I don't believe in government marriage, nor would my relationship style be eligible for it even if I did.

But I live in the real world, and I had a family, and I am also capable of reading. Whatever view you have limited yourself to is not the sum total of human reality. It is only your self-limited view.
 
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Aunt Spiker

I guess this is about your one son who you have written about in the past.

I expect things have gotten worse from the post I remember if you are asking writing this

He needs a wake up call that his actions have consequences, he may not care about right or wrong as most people view it. But I expect he will still care about truly negative punishment. The sooner he feels that the better
 
Parents are the ones doing the hand-cuffing of teachers and administrators.

This is true, and yet if a child goes to school talking about parents using corporal punishment, many teachers and administrators will get social workers involved. There are no black and white answers, but the problem is mostly cultural in nature. The blame-shifting and lack of responsibility demonstrated by people in general increases almost to a level of spineless passivity each year. Someone makes a mistake and somehow, it's everyone's fault but their own. So problems with a child cannot simply be the parent's fault because it is much more complex of an issue than that. What about the child's grandparents? They played apart by reproducing and then raising the parents of said troubled child. At the end of the day, each person is responsible for his or her own actions. The parent can only do so much.
 
I'm wondering at what point parents turn the corner and decide they can't tolerate their off-the-rails kid (such as the kids that are in constant trouble at school / with the law / repeatedly causing issues - etc) and turn their back on them? How many wrongs and troublesome issues does it take for a parent to get to the point of complete and total apathy? To that point where people thinking your a terrible parent for wanting to dump your kid off on the church's front step doesn't even phase you?

My answer is not popular. My answer is based on what my little sister did regarding her oldest brat.

My sister kicked her out.

The child was troubled due to having been severely neglected by her birth father.

Her birth father was cheating on his wife my sister.

The subsequent divorce messed up the child even more.

When my sister got remarried to someone else the child became really nasty.

So to preserve the second marriage my sister kicked her daughter out at the age of 18.

For miscreant kids younger than 18 there is boarding school.

At what point do you do it?

When you cannot take it anymore.
 
Well I'd say either right around birth when you can put them up for adoption, or around the time legal responsibility ends at 18. In between? You paid for the ticket so you stay on the ride.

I admit it doesn't much help that our society has made it extremely difficult what with all the child abuse/child welfare laws interfering with reasonable discipline. Still, if we didn't want it that way we'd change the laws back again.

Having a child compels a duty to either give it away to a parent who wants it, or taking responsibility to raise it.

"My name is Lieutenant Colonel Dad.

From now on you will speak only when spoken to and the first and last words out of your mouth will be sir!

Do you understand that you little worm ?!"

Sure. Worst case, it works for me.

I actually knew a dad who did all that, then at age 18 put the kid into the US Navy because he figured the kid could not survive USMC boot camp.

The kid was from his wife's first marriage and a brat -- always getting in trouble with the law and doing dope and alcohol under 18.
 
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Yet parents punish or even abuse troublesome kids all the time - so I don't think that type of upbringing factors into the equation for many. Not sure what % that might be - but a certain level of personal 'I care' has to be present on part of the kid.

And yes - legally you have to 'care for' your kid to a certain age but emotionally and psychologically? At some point parents get to a point where they don't care anymore and the kid is on their own the moment they turn 18. I was thinking more about this emotionally or psychological tipping point.

I think parents -- at least birth parents -- will always love their children.

But you do whatever you need to do in order to prepare the child for society.

I do not believe in hitting or shaking.

I don't mind grabbing and yelling though.

Abuse is a definition though and everyone defines it differently.

Neglect is also abuse.

Permissiveness is abuse as well.
 
None, quite happily so, and I don't believe in government marriage, nor would my relationship style be eligible for it even if I did.

But I live in the real world, and I had a family, and I am also capable of reading. Whatever view you have limited yourself to is not the sum total of human reality. It is only your self-limited view.

smoke, you are a very lucky person because you have been working as an editor for years despite your young age if I am not wrong.you have a long time to live ahead and you will want to have babies .our reality makes us believe we need to have a family.we cant live our lives by spending time at pubs .we need to grow up .what did life teach you,smoke ? I believe a loss taught you many things.now you still dont think not all fathers and mothers deserve respect ?
 
smoke, you are a very lucky person because you have been working as an editor for years despite your young age if I am not wrong.you have a long time to live ahead and you will want to have babies .our reality makes us believe we need to have a family.we cant live our lives by spending time at pubs .we need to grow up .what did life teach you,smoke ? I believe a loss taught you many things.now you still dont think not all fathers and mothers deserve respect ?

What sort of narcissism makes you believe you know me better than I do?

When I was 15, they told me I'd change my mind at 20. When I turned 20, they said I'd change my mind at 25. When I turned 25, they said I'd change my mind at 30. And yet, I know childfree women who are in their 60's now and still haven't changed their mind.

You don't know a damn thing about anyone but yourself, if you even know that. And your self-important fixation on trying to tell other people how they feel is laughably out of touch.

Also, the fact that I haven't bred doesn't mean I live in pubs. There are many ways to have homes, families, and relationships. I don't need to have children to have a family, and many people don't. Your lack of imagination has nothing to do with my actual life. It just means you lack imagination.

My advice would be to get more comfortable with your own life so you stop feeling a need to police other people's. This is a problem with you, not me.

Yes, loss has taught me many things, but hasn't changed how I feel about reproducing. One thing loss has taught me is that life is too short to care what others think of how you're living it. That's part of why I'm so successful.

The fact that I don't want to be a parent doesn't mean I don't respect parents. I respect good parents, and don't respect bad ones -- just like I respect good people in general and don't respect bad ones. They are not entitled to respect simply for having sex without birth control. Anyone can do that. That's not special.
 
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What sort of narcissism makes you believe you know me better than I do?

When I was 15, they told me I'd change my mind at 20. When I turned 2, they said I'd change my mind at 25. When I turned 25, they said I'd change my mind at 30. And yet, I know childfree women who are in their 60's now and still haven't changed their mind.

You don't know a damn thing about anyone but yourself. And your self-important fixation on trying to tell other people how they feel is laughably out of touch.

Also, the fact that I haven't bred doesn't mean I live in pubs. There are many ways to have homes and relationships. Your lack of imagination has nothing to do with my actual life. It just means you lack imagination.

My advice would be to get more comfortable with your own life so you stop feeling a need to police other people's. This is a problem with you, not me.

Yes, loss has taught me many things, but hasn't changed how I feel about reproducing. One thing loss has taught me is that life is too short to care what others think of how you're living it.

The fact that I don't want to be a parent doesn't mean I don't respect parents. I respect good parents, and don't respect bad ones -- just like I respect good people in general and don't respect bad ones. They are not entitled to respect simply for having sex without birth control. Anyone can do that. That's not special.
please.look at your own posts to see who is narcissist.you always teach the others the 'true.'.because you are the only one who knows it.you are an editor(!) for years and you imply I am narcissist.in many posts of yours I see you always tell the others about life as if they dont live anything and experience anything worth saying.you support SSM and you hate marriage.just stop thinking you know everything,my ' that is not true' friend
 
please.look at your own posts to see who is narcissist.you always teach the others the 'true.'.because you are the only one who knows it.you are an editor(!) for years and you imply I am narcissist.in many posts of yours I see you always tell the others about life as if they dont live anything and experience anything worth saying.you support SSM and you hate marriage.just stop thinking you know everything,my ' that is not true' friend

...Says the person inserting themselves into other people's lives. What does being an editor have to do with being a narcissist? Does it just bother you that I'm good at something? Or do you just not entirely understand the term? By the by, I'm not an editor anymore. I've moved on to working for myself. You mad, bro?

Where have I ever said what is true? I don't care in the least if other people reproduce. Their life. I'm not in their head and I don't know their desires.

You're the one insisting you know a stranger better than they know themselves, and that there is one true way.

I also don't hate marriage. I hate the government controlling it. I think the government has no right to decide who gets to have family rights and who doesn't. But I'd rather more people be included than fewer, if given no other choice, which is why I support SSM. If the government got out of marriage, I might get married. But even if I were ok with the government controlling people's relationships, currently, the government excludes me from getting married anyway. So take it up with them, not me.

I know everything there is to know pertaining to myself, certainly. You're the one who thinks you know better, and yet can't seem to get a handle on even yourself. I think you might be projecting.
 
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I'm wondering at what point parents turn the corner and decide they can't tolerate their off-the-rails kid (such as the kids that are in constant trouble at school / with the law / repeatedly causing issues - etc) and turn their back on them? How many wrongs and troublesome issues does it take for a parent to get to the point of complete and total apathy? To that point where people thinking your a terrible parent for wanting to dump your kid off on the church's front step doesn't even phase you?
not the church
your father is a minister, so you must know that is not the solution

but a military boarding school is
his actions then become the SCHOOL's problem to deal with. and they will deal with him
make it happen
for him ... and the rest of your family
 
I'm wondering at what point parents turn the corner and decide they can't tolerate their off-the-rails kid (such as the kids that are in constant trouble at school / with the law / repeatedly causing issues - etc) and turn their back on them? How many wrongs and troublesome issues does it take for a parent to get to the point of complete and total apathy? To that point where people thinking your a terrible parent for wanting to dump your kid off on the church's front step doesn't even phase you?

Me I do not know much about things like this but communication if not open & trusted has to begin. And yes I have seen friends go on total burnout and send the kid out the door.
 
"My name is Lieutenant Colonel Dad.

From now on you will speak only when spoken to and the first and last words out of your mouth will be sir!

Do you understand that you little worm ?!"

Sure. Worst case, it works for me.

I actually knew a dad who did all that, then at age 18 put the kid into the US Navy because he figured the kid could not survive USMC boot camp.

The kid was from his wife's first marriage and a brat -- always getting in trouble with the law and doing dope and alcohol under 18.

Did it work?
 
I'm wondering at what point parents turn the corner and decide they can't tolerate their off-the-rails kid (such as the kids that are in constant trouble at school / with the law / repeatedly causing issues - etc) and turn their back on them? How many wrongs and troublesome issues does it take for a parent to get to the point of complete and total apathy? To that point where people thinking your a terrible parent for wanting to dump your kid off on the church's front step doesn't even phase you?

I was in constant trouble as a child. My folks never gave up on me.

On the other hand one of my sisters have been disowned because she always blamed my parents for everything and never took responsibility for her own actions and was into drugs. That didn't happen though until after she was in her 30's.
 
I'm wondering at what point parents turn the corner and decide they can't tolerate their off-the-rails kid (such as the kids that are in constant trouble at school / with the law / repeatedly causing issues - etc) and turn their back on them? How many wrongs and troublesome issues does it take for a parent to get to the point of complete and total apathy? To that point where people thinking your a terrible parent for wanting to dump your kid off on the church's front step doesn't even phase you?

Here in New Hampshire we have the CHINS program (Child In Need of Services) to help parents deal with their unruly kids. My friend had her son put through the program when he was 17. It straightened him right out. Tough love.
 
Any parent who has raised more than one child in exactly the same atmosphere, same parents, same rules, etc., and watched them each turn out so differently realizes that even parents who love their kids and have consistently tried to raise them with the "proper" values and principles can be gobsmacked by the end result. Husband and I raised five kids; two mine, three his, all small when we married. The ups and downs of having five teenagers at one time is legendary.

The end result, two of our kids have families of their own and, although not without speed bumps, raised great kids. One of our kids had two rocky marriages, two children, one a poster-child of good-natured and helpful, the other a liar, a thief and eventually, an inmate, but she worked her tail off and raised them both the best she could. The final two of our kids had drug problems, although both are now sober; of those two one has skidded through life trying to game the welfare system, the other ended up in prison before he was 23.

Five kids, same upbringing, five different stories. Bottom line, most parents honestly do the very best they can for their children, but realize early on that their children are not their clones, and will eventually follow a path of their own choosing, for better or for worse.
 
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