Document Hints of structure beyond the visible universe

Lachean · 06-10-08, 10:31 AM

Hints of structure beyond the visible universe - space - 10 June 2008 - New Scientist Space

Quote:

Colossal structures larger than the visible universe – forged during the period of cosmic inflation nearly 14 billion years ago – may be responsible for a strange pattern seen in the big bang's afterglow, says a team of cosmologists. If confirmed, the structures could provide precious information about the universe's earliest moments.

In the first instant after its birth, the universe is thought to have experienced a rapid growth spurt called inflation. During this period, space itself expanded faster than the speed of light.

Inflation solves some cosmological puzzles, such as why relic radiation from the big bang, released when the universe was less than 400,000 years old, is relatively uniform.

Called the cosmic microwave background (CMB), the radiation can be observed in all directions in the sky. It has a slightly mottled appearance due to small differences in temperature from place to place in the early universe. The temperature differences are thought to be caused by variations in the density of matter, with denser regions being warmer than emptier regions.

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The structures stretch beyond the edge of the observable universe, which is essentially confined to a region with a radius of 14 billion light years, since only light from within that distance has had time to reach us since the big bang. The entire "global" universe is about 10100 times as large as the universe we can see.

Geez, I was always puzzled by the fact that our Universe was expanding. "Expanding into what?" was always my favorite cosmological question...

Nice to know that there's plenty of space left to expand into, but honestly scales such as twice the size of the universe are well over my head, let alone 10,100x.

new coup for you · 06-10-08, 10:33 AM

Actually the universe is only 4,000 years old and fossils are just the devil's ticks.

Intransigent Atheist · 06-10-08, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new coup for you

Actually the universe is only 4,000 years old and fossils are just the devil's ticks.

I believe the universe was created just before I posted this. God can do that you know.

Goldenboy219 · 06-10-08, 07:11 PM

My all time personal favorite quote from creationist regarding the beginning of the universe, earth, and man is as follows: "One second in the eyes of god is greater than or equal than one million years in the eyes of man. Therefore, the bibles reference to time is correct.

jfuh · 06-10-08, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lachean

Hints of structure beyond the visible universe - space - 10 June 2008 - New Scientist Space

Geez, I was always puzzled by the fact that our Universe was expanding. "Expanding into what?" was always my favorite cosmological question...

I used to ask that exact same question until I realized that even space itself is only in existence due to universal expansion. IOW it is the universe that "generates" both space and time. Whether or not the very word "space" is even applicable to spacial expansion of the universe seems to be the question. I'm not a physicist so I'll leave this to those guys to attempt and explain upon but I would venture to hypothesize that whatever the universe is expanding into may very well be beyond our 3 spacial einsteinian dimensions.

conquer · 07-04-08, 05:55 PM

Is incredible how some scientists fooled themselves or others with such fantasies..."structures beyond the visible".

When I challenged them long ago about the real evience that space does expand, they had no other choice but to keep their mouth shout because their ideas were based in silly imaginations alone.

I can see that they have invented a new way to conrtinue with their fantasies...at least the fantaasies found inn religion don't change, but the fantasies of some scientists do it like Obama with his speeches after months of babbling...

Lightdemon · 07-04-08, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conquer

Is incredible how some scientists fooled themselves or others with such fantasies..."structures beyond the visible".

When I challenged them long ago about the real evience that space does expand, they had no other choice but to keep their mouth shout because their ideas were based in silly imaginations alone.

I can see that they have invented a new way to conrtinue with their fantasies...at least the fantaasies found inn religion don't change, but the fantasies of some scientists do it like Obama with his speeches after months of babbling...

Religion don't change? You must be joking...

However, other than that, I think I agree that "structures beyond the visible" is a very tricky concept.

That's like saying something exists outside the boundaries of our universe. Which is very similar to how people argue about God and his existence beyond our universe.

Lachean, would you care to explain or comment?

RightOfCenter · 07-04-08, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conquer

Is incredible how some scientists fooled themselves or others with such fantasies..."structures beyond the visible".

When I challenged them long ago about the real evience that space does expand, they had no other choice but to keep their mouth shout because their ideas were based in silly imaginations alone.

I can see that they have invented a new way to conrtinue with their fantasies...at least the fantaasies found inn religion don't change, but the fantasies of some scientists do it like Obama with his speeches after months of babbling...

You're right, the fantasies in religion don't change. Which is why we still burn witches.

Lachean · 07-05-08, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightdemon

Lachean, would you care to explain or comment?

Certainly...

Quote:

Originally Posted by conquer

Is incredible how some scientists fooled themselves or others with such fantasies..."structures beyond the visible".

When I challenged them long ago about the real evience that space does expand, they had no other choice but to keep their mouth shout because their ideas were based in silly imaginations alone.

Really? And who did you challenge exactly? Have you ever heard of Cosmic microwave background radiation? Of course you haven't, given that you're so deluded that you think the evidence for the big bang is imaginary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by conquer

I can see that they have invented a new way to conrtinue with their fantasies...at least the fantaasies found inn religion don't change, but the fantasies of some scientists do it like Obama with his speeches after months of babbling...

At least you've properly regarded religion as fantasy here. The beauty of science is that every theory on offer is falsifiable, and can be proven wrong. Whenever evidence that disproves a theory or part of a theory, science isn't bad because some scientists got it wrong before, science is great because it can admit when it was wrong and there is everything to be gained by proving someone else wrong (nobel prizes, notoriety, etc...)

The scientific community is open to any reason or evidence you have for your mystical claims, but the problem is that your claims are designed so that they cannot be falsified and they also offer no useful predictive value.

We're willing to change our minds and are more than open about what it would take to do so. Is that the same case with your beliefs? Are you open minded to evidence that would contradict it?

Lightdemon · 07-05-08, 08:42 PM

Lachean, what I wanted you to comment was on: How do we know that there are "structures beyond the visible."

What evidence do we have that suggests this?

Obviously we can't see past the end of our universe...So how do we know if there exists some sort of structure that is beyond our universe?

You've mentioned Cosmic microwave background radiation, which I haven't a clue on what it is, but how does this suggest that there is anything beyond our universe?

The way I understood it was that our universe started out with really dense energy/matter (beginning of Big Bang), which then expanded. If we follow the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics, then the Universe that we live in simply just goes from dense to a very spread out form of energy/matter. Heat naturally does not go from hot to cold, it is always cold to hot, meaning that energy will zero off if given infinite time.

So if in the beginning of the Universe had dense energy, then at the end (assuming there will be) the Universe will have energy spread out to the maximum. Thus expanding the Universe to it's limits. I imagine that it would consist of a set of basic, uniform, and lowest form of energy.

At least that's the way I understood expansion of the universe. However, how can there be "structures beyond the visible?" I don't get this...What proof is there? Or is this just the anticipated size of the universe in it's most spread out form, like the one I just described?

If so, then one would need to know how much matter there is in the entire Univerise. Is this even possible? I dont know. Which is why I asked.