Do You Have What it Takes...? - Page 3

Tashah · 04-06-08, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

You science people always have to put a damper on the fun with your "facts".

That's how we are I suppose. Inconvenient facts are still...facts. Sorry

conquer · 04-06-08, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

That's why we really need to be setting our sights on Venus. Gravity's a bit better than 90% of Earth's-- and the habitation challenges are actually smaller than anywhere else in our Solar System.

Not to mention, if you bring some basic agricultural raw materials, you've got everything you need on Venus both to sustain the colony's material needs, but to begin a (very slow) terraforming process and even export goods in order to import anything else you might need.

Don't forget your cooler full of beers...and a battery powered fan...

conquer · 04-06-08, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WI Crippler

I'd be interested in hearing how we would terraform Venus. I've head the thoeries of terraforming Mars, but Mars has several problems such as a rapidly dissipating atmosphere, lack of tectonic plate actvity, and I want to say I remember hearing that the magnetic field is rather weak which causes other issues. In other words, things that aren't easily fixed by any measure.

With Venus, I have never heard a terraforming idea. I think thats kind of out of the window with the run away greehouse effect it has going on right now. What ideas would they possibly have for stopping that? It would take more than planting some corn and soy.

Start by colling off Venus and take out the excess of sulfur around...Any plant you take over there must be heat resistant and you can water it with the snow which is found in the outer layer of its atmosphera...

(Sheesss! What I am doing here following these nonsenses?)

conquer · 04-06-08, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

The magnetic field problem is a major concern. But the greenhouse gasses... it would take some time, but the idea is to build atmospheric habitats for the colonists, and use their own agricultural and oxygen needs to pull CO2 out of the atmosphere. You could fairly easily create a system which produces far more oxygen than the colonists need, which you could then release back into the atmosphere.

You could even use the agriculture to trap the carbon and then use it for manufacturing purposes.

My understanding is, if you got the temperature and magnetic field issues resolved, the atmospheric pressure would decline. I could be wrong, though.

I know where you have obtained such idea: the bible! Having earth -a few thousand years ago- as a Venus alike scenario, the god of the bible shouted: :"Plants first!"...and the other living creatures later...how scientific and wise...

conquer · 04-06-08, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1234

I know it was a fade for a bit. But do people actually still believe the moon was a hoax?

I agree with your general assessment of the toll of space travel on the human body. I just don't agree it is quite as rapid.
Artificial gravity will be developed at some point. There are already several theories and designs that are not fully tested.
I also hope that the upcoming global oil crisis that we will see within a decade or 2 will help to spur mankind into inventing a superior energy source.
And that would also help to propel our space program.
Doubtful to be by the year 2014 though. Very doubtful.

To travel to other planets with the intentions of live over there is a great and understandable dream.

But, we must overcome first the problems that reality is showing us about our human condition against those changes of environment.

What I see from some organizations -including NASA- is that with what they have at hand for such space traveling, they are only giving lots of false hope and great delusions to the people.

Korimyr the Rat · 04-07-08, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tashah

Venus is woefully inhospitable. Average surface temperature is around 460°C which is hotter than Mercury. ... At the surface, the atmospheric pressure is 92 times (92 bars) that of the Earth's at sea-level.

At the surface, certainly. But in the Venusian atmosphere, human breathable air-- 79% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen-- is extremely buoyant. Fill a suitable habitat with this gas mixture, which you would have to do anyway, and it will automatically float upwards to rest at a point just below equal atmospheric pressure, where the temperature is also considerably easier to work with.

Leaves you with the problem of acid-proofing your habitat, and having to bring your own water. The first problem is trivial, while the second is something that we'd have to work on for awhile.

There are a number of advantages to Venus, as well. Including the aforementioned pain-in-the-*** quantities of sulfuric acid.

tecoyah · 04-07-08, 07:58 AM

Until we actually create a space elevator, the logistics of colonizing the moon (our obvious next step) are wicked hard. Creating underground facilities on both the moon and mars would work, but no matter what, the Cosmic Ray issue will be the big one we face right off.

Tashah · 04-07-08, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korimyr the Rat

At the surface, certainly. But in the Venusian atmosphere, human breathable air-- 79% Nitrogen, 21% Oxygen-- is extremely buoyant. Fill a suitable habitat with this gas mixture, which you would have to do anyway, and it will automatically float upwards to rest at a point just below equal atmospheric pressure, where the temperature is also considerably easier to work with.

Floating 'upwards' implies a genesis from some point below. I have no idea how anything such as a habitat could be assembled in such hellish conditions, and no one else does either.

Voidwar · 04-07-08, 04:26 PM

By the time we have the power to terraform, we will no longer have the desire.

Planets are merely gravity wells that make leaving and trading goods inordinately difficult.

By the time we master space well enough to contemplate terraforming, we will be more content to just live in space, rather than fight the gravity of planets.

Space elevators are a nice solution to launch cost, but that is not the only cost involved.

Why terraform ? One can make a Spaceborne Habitat much easier.

Planet resources ? Anything we need is in Asteroids or Comets.

By the time we have mastered these technologies, the benefits of Terraforming will be nothing and the cost of changing an entire planet's temperature and atmosphere will still be there.

Man's future is spaceborne, not scurrying from planet to planet trying to "earth them up".

WI Crippler · 04-07-08, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voidwar

By the time we have the power to terraform, we will no longer have the desire.

Planets are merely gravity wells that make leaving and trading goods inordinately difficult.

By the time we master space well enough to contemplate terraforming, we will be more content to just live in space, rather than fight the gravity of planets.

Space elevators are a nice solution to launch cost, but that is not the only cost involved.

Why terraform ? One can make a Spaceborne Habitat much easier.

Planet resources ? Anything we need is in Asteroids or Comets.

By the time we have mastered these technologies, the benefits of Terraforming will be nothing and the cost of changing an entire planet's temperature and atmosphere will still be there.

Man's future is spaceborne, not scurrying from planet to planet trying to "earth them up".

This is kind of what I was thinking. Once we leave Earth, we should probably resign ourselves to the fact that we will have to wear a space suit of some kind, in order to go outside. Maybe we will eventually find an earthlike planet that is habitable, but its my opinion that they will be too far and few between to count on, and terraforming is too complicated a process to engineer. We'll have to make do with what those planets/moons have there.