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The Higgs Particle [W:16]

Oh yeah...now this was worth the tens of billions of mostly tax payer dollars to build the LHC to find out.

:roll:

Children dying of easily preventable illnesses/reasons, millions starving to death and scientists want tens of billions to fund their pet projects like this semi-nonsense.

If scientists want to spend whacking great sums of dough on this stuff...power to them - JUST DON'T USE TAXPAYER MONEY TO DO IT.

And to anyone that disagrees with me on this? You ARE wrong on this and I AM right on this. Period.


BTW...my argument has nothing to do with the God question...I am not religious in the slightest.

So you don't want to have fusion power or use the fruits of past pure science research like MNR scanners.

OK, I get it you don't want the world to progress because you don't want to have to learn of new stuff....

Happily there are not all that many of you.
 
The Higgs Particle is supposed to be THE particle. The one that holds everything together. Without it, nothing as we know it would be able to exist.

Well, yes and no. The Higgs particle is what gives the particles involved in alpha/beta radiation their mass (The W and Z bosons), which is what allows nuclear decay and fission to happen. It's not any more important than any other particles of the Standard Model, but it does play a unique role in allowing massless particles to obtain a mass.

Before the Higgs particle was found it was thought to be either at 115Gev or 140Gev. If the Higgs Particle was found to be at 115Gev it would support the Super Symmetry Theory. If however the Higgs Particle was found to be at 140Gev then it would support the Multiverse Theory.

Well, the reasonable bounds were between 90-200 GeV, if memory serves. 115 GeV would have indicated TeV-scale supersymmetry, yes, but SUSY isn't falsified by a mass of 126 GeV. The other data coming out of the LHC largely disfavors TeV-scale SUSY.

Now in laymans terms Super Symmetry in physics is essentially where everything in the universe has a pattern that is, if given enough time and research, detectable and understandable.

Well, I suppose so, but that's sort of true for all theories of physics. More specifically, supersymmetry (SUSY) states that every particle we observe in nature must have a "partner" particle at the same mass, but a different spin. Realistically, SUSY must be broken at low energies since we haven't found these partner particles (they must be far more massive), and there are models that show how to do this. Because of a conjectured --plausible, but not necessarily logically necessary-- idea, called "technical naturalness," it was held that the Higgs and SUSY could very well be related.

(It's worth stating that SUSY true power in modern theoretical physics is it's ability to simplify quantum theories. If you take a quantum theory and enhance it's symmetries to include supersymmetry, the theory has significantly simplified quantum properties. Whether or not TeV-scale SUSY is true has little baring on most modern researchers use of SUSY.)

It is one reason that the Higgs Particle is also considered the God Particle.

Funny thing: The actual author of that name didn't call it the "God Particle," he called it the "Goddamn Particle" because it was so difficult to experimentally detect, relative to the other particles in the Standard Model. Their editor said they couldn't publish that, so the editor instead called it "the God particle." The public's imagination sort of carried it off from there.

Because such symmetry would in essence prove that, as one physics scientist put it, "someone was out there continually fiddling with the buttons to make everything just right for life to exist". Now of course this doesn't prove that there would be or is actually a God out there. [...]

They aren't really resonating, they're just in causally disconnected pockets of the universe that fell into different vacuaa of the Higgs field as the early universe rapidly expanded and cooled. But otherwise, yes, that's essentially it.

When they found the Higgs Particle they found something that they weren't expecting. It didn't resonate at either 115Gev or 140Gev. It actually resonated at 126.5Gev. [...] So my question to you all is this....What does the Higgs particle being at 126.5Gev mean? Or, what other possible explanations could explain a Higgs Particle being at 126.5Gev?

It means that the most vanilla model of particle physics, the "Standard Model" that was written down in the 1970's, is likely all there is at energy scales around a few TeV and possibly well beyond those energies. Bare in mind that 126.5 is totally compatible and is not at all unexpected or unusual for the ordinary Standard Model (No SUSY, no other considerations).

There's certain things that you can take away from this, but they're all heavily qualified. The fact that there's no SUSY at order the TeV scale is interesting. That tells us that unless something radical happens between a few TeV and ~10,000,000,000 TeV or 10^11 TeV, then the forces of physics will not unify. They will all narrowly miss unifying, and thus "Grand Unified Theories" of physics --where the E&M, the weak nuclear force, and the strong nuclear unify-- are unlikely to be true. In some sense, it's the worst of all possible worlds for a researcher: There's nothing to suggest any new physics until we get to new much higher energies (but there will necessarily be new physics at ~10,000,000,000,000,000 TeV or 10^16 TeV, and there may or may not be any new physics before then. Dark matter strongly suggests that there should be new physics before then.).
 
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Good thread topic, Kal. If you remember I was one of the first to truly keep peoples eyes on the LHC when it was being built. (Back in our Space.com days) One of the reasons was my interest in particle physics, and like you, I am more visual conceptually than mathematically. QM, and particle physics really is the son of a bitch of modern science because everytime we learn something, we either do not know what we just learned, or we learned that we need to learn a lot more in order to even explain what we think we just learned. When they announced the discovery of the Higgs Boson, if you remember (I watched it live) they said that they "think we found it, can everyone agree"? Of course they extrapolated data from the CMS, and Atlas collision chambers, with Atlas measuring 125.6 GeV, and CMS 126 GeV with 5 Sigma probability. I thought to myself, wait, how do they even know what that statistical bump really is anyway? And it got me to thinking about the intuitive nature of the properties of particles.

It's generally accepted science that a particle in superposition doesn't become a point particle until it's directly observed. (Think double slit experiment) Now ask yourself, what does that mean? What does directly observed mean in any meaningful scientific query? Do they instead mean that a particle doesn't become what we expect it to be until it begins to perform "work"? When a tree falls in the forest, comes to mind. Of course that's a crude explanation of the "measurement-problem" currently affecting scientists today, but you get what I mean. Back to the way I look at it. I look at the universe as an ever evolving fluid state with energy being the most unstable state and particles (matter) being a more stable state, and of course some matter being more stable than other matter and so on. The HB is said to give mass to matter, and matter is influenced by the forces weak/strong/gravity etc.. My question is this. How would a particle (The Higgs Boson) give matter mass? By what dynamic or mechanism would that occur? I understand the current theories, namely that the HB acts as a sort of field that all particles must pass through on their way from changing from energy to matter, but I don't get this. What other evidence have we ever observed where this mechanism takes place? What about the other way round? What happens when matter returns to energy?

Look at our Star or any other star. They're mostly made up of Hydrogen and Helium. Hydrogen coverts to helium under intense energies called fusion, giving off the "heat" we feel in the form of radiation. When a star explodes or goes supernova, even more intense energy is generated, and these gases fuse into all of the other heavier elements of matter we see today, Iron, Gold, Platinum, oxygen etc.. But here's what I think. I think the HB is just another elementary particle with it's own mass, just like quarks, leptons etc.. I think it more likely that the mass particles have is directly related to the gravitational field it must pass through when it changes its state from energy to matter, and this particle, the graviton, is the culprit. When matter returns to energy, it breaks free from the graviton in particle form and the graviton returns to its wave-form or field. I think evidence for this is just how dynamic and wide ranging elements are formed from exploding stars in that, the energies within the exploding star are consistent enough to produce a single element but not the wide array we observe. My explanation for this makes sense if we consider that as the graviton sitting in its wave form, or field form can vary wildly depending on its proximity and density to the new matter being formed within the exploding star. That is to say, the hydrogen and helium already have their mass, but what directs this matter into gold, platinum, lead, iron etc.. is directly dependent on the density of the graviton field. The more dense the field, the heavier the element will be born from the fusion. The less dense, the lighter the element.

The field is everywhere in the universe, but like the universe on large scales, seems uniform or symmetrical, but at smaller distances is varied and unique. It's why we measure bunches of elements from exploding stars like finger prints. Some stars producing more of this, and less of that, and others the other way round or some combination in between. So to summarize. I believe the graviton particle gives fundamental particles of matter their mass, but I believe that it is this graviton field that decides how the protons, neutrons and electrons are distributed to form heavier elements.

Tim-
 
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