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Going to Mars is the dumbest idea any human has ever had

Kobie said:
While overpopulation might lead to the need for extraterrestrial colonization, that's centuries away. However, when one considers the plethora of scientific discovery that has taken place simply by leaving Earth's atmosphere, I can't imagine why any sane person would say "Mars? Nah. Too far away. F that."
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Even if overpopulation is centuries away, it may very well take that long before we can reach other stars. And if we follow the advice of people like the OP and the author of the article we'll never get to any other planet in the solar system. By that time we're screwed. Just because something may not happen until centuries later doesn't mean we as a race shouldn't make plans based on it. ;)
 
faithful_servant said:
In a few billion years, that will definitely be a problem....
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Kobie said:
When the sun finally goes (in several BILLION years, mind you), our solar system is entirely cooked.
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Thus my response to "ever". At some point in the future we must get to Mars then Pluto (the next rock) then out of the solar system, or we're done.
 
Crovax said:
You are missing the reason any person does anything.... because they can
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A lot of people do really stupid things "because they can." Going to Mars would be one such stupid thing. My point in starting this thread was to challenge people to present a coherent explanation why I'm wrong. So far, nothing.
 
Neomalthusian said:
A lot of people do really stupid things "because they can." Going to Mars would be one such stupid thing. My point in starting this thread was to challenge people to present a coherent explanation why I'm wrong. So far, nothing.
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$140 billion and counting space stations that accomplish very little comes to mind.
 
ecofarm said:
Thus my response to "ever". At some point in the future we must get to Mars then Pluto (the next rock) then out of the solar system, or we're done.
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Do you honestly think that (1) humans will be alive when the sun's expansion makes Earth uninhabitable, and (2) that Mars will be the slightest bit habitable just because the Earth isn't?

I'm assuming your response is sarcasm.
 
Neomalthusian said:
Do you honestly think that (1) humans will be alive when the sun's expansion makes Earth uninhabitable, and (2) that Mars will be the slightest bit habitable just because the Earth isn't?

I'm assuming your response is sarcasm.
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You used the term "ever".

1. Yes, humans will be alive. I'm not a psychopath doomsday loser.
2. There is ice on Mars. Water is the only thing we really need to get from Mars.

Side note: on our way to Pluto, we can get water from moons.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
$140 billion and counting space stations that accomplish very little comes to mind.
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Before anyone (else) ignorantly accuses me of being anti-science I should say that I am a huge fan of astrophysics. I love that ****. Hubble and Spitzer space telescopes, for example, are ****ing insanely awesome. I think investing more into the science and technology involved in unmanned space exploration and studies, optics, math and physics, unmanned space probes, and so on is a potentially awesome idea. Thinking we're going to colonize Mars, on the other hand, is patently ****ing retarded.
 
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ecofarm said:
You used the term "ever".

1. Yes, humans will be alive. I'm not a psychopath doomsday loser.
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It's still unclear whether you're being purely sarcastic and satirical and getting a kick out of yourself or if you're serious. I have to assume the former.

2. There is ice on Mars. Water is the only thing we really need to get from Mars.
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Why do we need to get water from Mars?

Side note: on our way to Pluto, we can get water from moons.
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This makes me laugh, but I still can't tell if I'm laughing at your satire (in which case you're a satirical genius), or if I'm laughing at your ridiculousness (in which case your problems can't be adequately articulated without getting myself banned from my own thread).
 
Once again, I'm responding to the use of the term "ever".

Neomalthusian said:
It's still unclear whether you're being purely sarcastic and satirical and getting a kick out of yourself or if you're serious. I have to assume the former.
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Believing that humans will be gone is psychopath doomsday loser BS. It's a weak minded cop-out. No sky falling, Chicken Little.

Why do we need to get water from Mars?
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Water is too bulky to transport in the quantity needed. Everything else we can bring from Earth. Thus, yes, it will be habitable given the necessary tech.

This makes me laugh, but I still can't tell if I'm laughing at your satire (in which case you're a satirical genius), or if I'm laughing at your ridiculousness (in which case your problems can't be adequately articulated without getting myself banned from my own thread).
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Like I give a crap. Small minded idiocy does not confront me.
 
Neomalthusian said:
The article poked holes in the technological capability, but my post asked why would bother going there. Even if we had all the technology necessary to go there and then survive there indefinitely (and we don't, but like I said, pretending for a moment we did), we'd still lack any reason to go there.
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Your article was an opinion puff piece. It didn't poke holes in anything. It made some claims which I proved were false. And many reasons have been given to you already. Resources.

Neomalthusian said:
"Hard?" I'm not arguing it would take more effort than I feel like we should exert, I'm saying there's absolutely nothing the Martian surface offers us that should motivate us to go there.
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Again, it has resources. It's made out of the very same materials that our own world is made out of, materials that we use every single day. Even the same materials that you are using as you type your posts from your computer. Mars is not just a lump of worthless rock.

Neomalthusian said:
The Martian "system" can sustain a human population of zero.
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By itself of course. That's what habitats are for. The article even mentions them but downplays them as if they would be horrible to live in. Did you know that such designs are being worked on right this very minute? And more than just functionality is being designed into them. Look em up.

Neomalthusian said:
Billions of people believe in deities. I'm aware people believe mythical things. We won't "eventually reach other stars." That's not pessimism, it's just a comprehension of spacetime, energy, human biology and a recognition that the type of technology that would enable that travel through space would be infinitely more valuable utilized right here on Earth. I realize some people feel subjectively happier believing in gods, and others feel subjectively better believing humans will never go extinct and we'll just conquer the universe, but the reality is we're not going to reach other stars or colonize the rest of the solar system or other places in the galaxy or universe. Why? Because if we had technology that ****ing insanely awesome that that was possible, we could survive any goddamn thing that could ever happen to the Earth for another billion or more years.
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You don't know any of this. You just "assume". People such as you once thought that we'd never learn to fly, or reach the moon. Guess what...we did it.
 
ecofarm said:
Ever? The sun is expanding. Mars then Pluto or we're done.
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nah we'll run out of resources on earth long before then, and mars is a fraction of the size of earth. I tend to think we don't deserve a 2nd planet to **** up at that point. Not to mention super AI will end us if we can't completely master them, including their potential to our benefit. It's more like "transcendence into an event horizon or some other crazy journey or we're done"
 
so you're telling me "the martian" wasn't completely accurate? I am shocked and dismayed at this deception!
 
chromium said:
nah we'll run out of resources on earth long before then, and mars is a fraction of the size of earth. I tend to think we don't deserve a 2nd planet to **** up at that point. Not to mention super AI will end us if we can't completely master them, including their potential to our benefit. It's more like "transcendence into an event horizon or some other crazy journey or we're done"
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I don't do Sky Falling arguments. They are for small minded losers.

As far as size, not everyone is going. The important thing is that we, as humans, go.
 
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ecofarm said:
Believing that humans will be gone is psychopath doomsday loser BS. It's a weak minded cop-out. No sky falling, Chicken Little.
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I still have to admit the possibility you're just really good at satirical trolling and are stringing me along now, but for the benefit of the less intelligent who might read this thread, I'll point out that it will be billions of years before the sun's expansion threatens the habitability of Earth. For perspective, do you know what humans were a billion years ago?

Like I give a crap. Small minded idiocy does not confront me.
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I'm just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that nothing you've said thus far is actually the least bit serious.
 
chromium said:
I tend to think we don't deserve a 2nd planet to **** up at that point.
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Mars is far too ****ed up for life for us to have any potential whatsoever to **** it up further in that regard. Has nothing to do with deservingness.
 
Neomalthusian said:
I still have to admit the possibility you're just really good at satirical trolling and are stringing me along now, but for the benefit of the less intelligent who might read this thread, I'll point out that it will be billions of years before the sun's expansion threatens the habitability of Earth. For perspective, do you know what humans were a billion years ago?
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You qualified your claim with "ever", not me. That was stupid.

I'm just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that nothing you've said thus far is actually the least bit serious.
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Douchebaggery. Gratz.

Enjoy your dumb thread, Chicken Little.
 
ecofarm said:
You qualified your claim with "ever", not me. That was stupid.
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"Ever" in the time humans exist, there will be zero good reason to send humans to Mars, for the same reason there would be zero good reason to send humans to Venus or Mercury.

Douchebaggery. Gratz.

Enjoy your dumb thread, Chicken Little.
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Glad you decided to duck out and run away from my questions before making yourself look worse, if that's even possible.
 
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Kal'Stang said:
1: We actually DO have the technology to get there in a 39 days of travel time. So your article is false right there. Evidence: Manned mission to Mars in 2019



2: Size of the craft is variable. It doesn't have to be a "personal space the size of an SUV". Your article just uses such idiocy as a form of propaganda to make it seem as worse as possible to persuade the reader to think it would be a horrible trip.

3: Yes, microgravity is a concern as it does reduce bone mass and such. However 39 days worth of travel in such is not even close to having to worry about that. Sergei K. Krikalev spent 2.2 years on the space station. Microgravity can also be alleviated by producing artificial gravity by simply making the craft spin. The artificial gravity via spin won't completely solve problems associated with microgravity bit it will help alleviate them.

4: Since most of his article is based on the long flight time and not the 39 days I'll ignore much of the rest of the article.

5: Is colonizing Mars going to be hard? Hellz yes. But just because something is hard doesn't mean that it shouldn't, or couldn't, be done.

6: There actually IS a need to go out into the solar system whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Over population of the Earth. Let me guess, you scoffed? Like it or not it IS a very real possibility. We know that ANY system is limited in what it can produce and if that system is over loaded then it will fail. Example: What happens when an electrical outlet tries to draw too much power due to plugging too many things into it? It short circuits. That is what's going to happen here on Earth since our population growth is rising. As evidenced here: US Census Bureau ~ World Population Clock There will come a time when the resources that the Earth has will be used up due to over population. So going out into the solar system is a must if we are to eventually reach other stars. Which I believe is possible. We just have to advance more in technology, which we can't do if we listen to people like you and the author of the article. The only way that technology advances is through adversity. What better type of adversity is there than aiming for the stars?
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6) isn't an acceptable reason to me. Why, so we can **** up another planet? At that point i say we don't deserve to continue as a species, when we've destroyed untold millions of others. It's also crazy to think we can leave a planet with abundance of resources for a much smaller one with hardly any that can sustain life, like mars, expecting a better result. It's estimated that any planet more than 1.5x the size of earth will be a gas giant, i.e. totally uninhabitable. On top of that, the closest known planet that MIGHT sustain life is 14 light years away. Even with theoretical methods, like "laser sails," the amount of resources used would far exceed what we could harvest. We need to find other ways to control population or forget it
 
Neomalthusian said:
Glad you decided to duck out and run away from my questions before making yourself look worse, if that's even possible.
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Idiotic claims like "no natural resources whatsoever" make you look stellar.
 
ecofarm said:
Thus my response to "ever". At some point in the future we must get to Mars then Pluto (the next rock) then out of the solar system, or we're done.
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By the time that occurs, humanity likely won't exist ... it will have evolved into a completely separate species. "We" won't be around, regardless.
 
Musk should believe the Book of Revelations. Would save him some resources. Just saying.
 
Neomalthusian said:
This is your answer? "Because we might ****ing learn something?" And with that vapid response, you then feel entitled to declare the question "absolutely idiotic?" Talk about irony, Jesus F.C.
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Why explore the inhospitable depths of the oceans, then? People can't live there. Must not be worth checking out.
 
ecofarm said:
Idiotic claims like "no natural resources whatsoever" make you look stellar.
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You caught a technicality, good for you. Every planet has "natural resources," though granted none are organic, biological, ecosystemic, etc., but yeah, "natural resources," technically. But other than Earth, no planet's resources are anywhere close to worth going there for given the inhospitability.

By contrast, you implied humans would be around billions of years from now. I asked you a question: for perspective, do you know what life was like a billion years ago?
 
Kobie said:
Why explore the inhospitable depths of the oceans, then? People can't live there. Must not be worth checking out.
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I didn't say we shouldn't "check out" Mars or the depths of our oceans. What I was getting at was that we should delude ourselves to think we need to send humans there or that we're going to build civilizations there.
 
ecofarm said:
I don't do Sky Falling arguments. They are for small minded losers.

As far as size, not everyone is going. The important thing is that we, as humans, go.
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1) you make the mistake of thinking that i care what happens to humans in a billion years, when the sun is expected to fry earth, or that i consider creating and transcending into a black hole to be a desperate failure. We could see the fate of the entire universe from there, but whatever, keep thinking small like physical travel to god knows where. Hey guess what, there's reasons ET hasn't visited! We ain't hopping from one planet to the next to the end of time, so better find another solution

2) your argument is predicated on sky falling. It is literally an attempt to avoid a doomsday scenario a billion years before we have to. Why not be less of a small minded loser and insist we will repel the sun back into its rightful position before that happens?
 
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