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Other Advanced Formes of Live in the Universe and will we ever meet them

Infinite Chaos said:
That's why I won't get too excited when we discover life bearing planets in distant universes.

Now, if we discover something reasonably close (we haven't) and it bears life, that would be interesting but there's still a huge problem of how we get to it / communicate with it and get any kind of answers before a couple of centuries pass.
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Reasonably close is an interesting term when used in these contexts. It took Voyager some 35 years of space flight to reach the edge of our solar system and is now 37 light-hours from the Earth. The closest star system is Alpha Centauri some 4.22 light-years away.

Yeah, unless there's some sort of significant breakthrough in traversing large distances . . . . don't think it's reasonable that we'll be visiting planet outside of our solar system, nor other intelligent and technologically advanced life visiting us. The distances are simply too great.
 
eohrnberger said:
~ don't think it's reasonable that we'll be visiting planet outside of our solar system, nor other intelligent and technologically advanced life visiting us ~
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Exactly, I also wonder how any external life would discover us when our communications and man-made emittances will take so long to reach them. It all comes back to the point of aiming to land somewhere when the position of that planet has shifted millions of miles in the meantime.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
Exactly, I also wonder how any external life would discover us when our communications and man-made emittances will take so long to reach them. It all comes back to the point of aiming to land somewhere when the position of that planet has shifted millions of miles in the meantime.
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I don't think that missing the planet your are targeting is going to be a problem, as you'd have orbital data and know by how much you'd have to lead your target to hit it.

The distance thing is the problem, even with a light speed capability, it'd still be years. Guess we aren't going to be visiting any other star systems until we have some sort of warp capability to travel multiple light years in an instant, if we ever get to that or not, well, the physicists are still arguing about that, and if it's even possible with our current understanding of physics.
 
Quag said:
There are alternatives to oil, they just arent as economically feasable, there are no alternatives to water.


Agreed


I said if you remove more than is going in not if you just remove water.
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So, you don't remove more than is going in. In many places, there is a lot going in.

Oh, and there is a non economically feasible alternative to fresh water as well. It's called desalinization. Perhaps on day we'll find a way to do it more cheaply, and put an end to water wars once and for all.
 
eohrnberger said:
Happy Valentines Day, Polgara. :2wave:

Not sure which cave drawings your are referring to. Who knows? Anyone have any theories about them?
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I'm not sure f I'm recalling correctly, but I believe it was Erich Von Daniken who theorized that we may have had aliens visiting our planet in the far past. They were apparently non-threatening, since the figures on the ground were waving to them. Who knows?
 
There may be alien TV and/or radio transmissions that have been travelling through space for a very long time. Perhaps we will one day detect a civilization that existed a hundred thousand years ago.

That would answer one question: Are we alone?
And it would raise yet another: What happened to that civilization? Are they still around?
 
polgara said:
I'm not sure f I'm recalling correctly, but I believe it was Erich Von Daniken who theorized that we may have had aliens visiting our planet in the far past. They were apparently non-threatening, since the figures on the ground were waving to them. Who knows?
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If you are a technologically advanced enough civilization to make the great trek across the galaxy to visit a planet sparsely populated with humanoids wielding knives and spears, what in the world would you have to worry about?
 
Frank Apisa said:
Most scientists would tell you that none of those things seem to be "requirements" for advanced forms of life, Eo.

The ARE requirements for advanced forms of life such as we know. But there may be advanced forms of life that are so different from what we know...that they might think advanced life could not exist on a planet such as ours.

I will say this about "advanced life" though.

There is the distinct possibility that we humans are among the most advanced forms of life such as we know...that there are very few, if any, more advanced out there.

It appears that life such as we know...develops in a way where it is likely to achieve a technologically advanced status before achieving a philosophically advanced status sufficient to prevent itself from destroying itself.

We are at that horizon. We have the means to destroy all life on this planet...and we are not yet at the point where it is philosophically impossible that we will do that.

If all life such as we know develops this same way...perhaps the majority (perhaps all) eliminate themselves completely before developing further.

Maybe the only things more evolved than than we...are civilizations that developed artificial intelligence before destroying themselves...and the intelligent machines are what survives.

Rather than aiming for colonization to insure humanity continues to exist...we should put most of our efforts into creating artificial intelligence...and hope they save a few of us on reservations.
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Cite three.
 
polgara said:
I'm not sure f I'm recalling correctly, but I believe it was Erich Von Daniken who theorized that we may have had aliens visiting our planet in the far past. They were apparently non-threatening, since the figures on the ground were waving to them. Who knows?
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Chariots of the Gods?

That book has been dispelled long ago.
 
eohrnberger said:
If you are a technologically advanced enough civilization to make the great trek across the galaxy to visit a planet sparsely populated with humanoids wielding knives and spears, what in the world would you have to worry about?
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When you consider how far we have advanced in math and science alone, how did we manage to do that? That we could travel in space would have been a source of laughter 200 years ago. On the other hand, we've split atoms, and we certainly know how to obliterate every living thing on this planet in no time of all. I wonder what new surprises about ourselves are waiting for the right time to show themselves. IF we were visited by aliens in the far past, it just seems possible that anything is possible!
 
Fearandloathing said:
Chariots of the Gods?

That book has been dispelled long ago.
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Happy Valentines Day, F&L. :2wave:

I know, but did any of the debunkers ever come up with an explanation of how the Nazca lines in Peru, which look like an airfield from high in the air, were drawn? Early humans had no way to propel themselves 500 feet or more into the air, and stay there, that I ever read about. And the pyramids are still considered one of the seven wonders of the world. Interesting...
 
polgara said:
Happy Valentines Day, F&L. :2wave:

I know, but did any of the debunkers ever come up with an explanation of how the Nazca lines in Peru, which look like an airfield from high in the air, were drawn? Early humans had no way to propel themselves 500 feet or more into the air, and stay there, that I ever read about. And the pyramids are still considered one of the seven wonders of the world. Interesting...
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As I recall, the "airfield" looked nothing like an airfield when viewed from other angles, I could be wrong. We do have a very good theory how the pyramids were built, the encased each block in a huge wooden ball and rolled it up a ramp. Nearby lime pits are explained as the bones of the dead slaves buried in multitiered graves.

I remember when the book came out, everyone wanted to believe. I believe there is more evidence of "Yeti" or "Big Foot" than I do past visits from aliens. The likelihood of an alien race visiting us, teaching one band of people how to build elaborate temples for kings and their families and not teach them anything else, is extremely remote. And if they were so advanced, why would they help people who enslaved others? Why would they help Egypt build pyramids and not help the people of the Xia dynasty build dams to prevent the catastrophes on the Yellow River?

Why would they do all these things and leave no tangible signs of their work, like language, or art?
 
polgara said:
When you consider how far we have advanced in math and science alone, how did we manage to do that? That we could travel in space would have been a source of laughter 200 years ago. On the other hand, we've split atoms, and we certainly know how to obliterate every living thing on this planet in no time of all. I wonder what new surprises about ourselves are waiting for the right time to show themselves. IF we were visited by aliens in the far past, it just seems possible that anything is possible!
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Technology is progressing at the rate of a geometric progression. It took humans 95% of our history to begin to experiment with agriculture, animal husbandry, mathematics, and written language. From there, the pace of progress has been ever faster and faster. Who knows where we might be in another thousand years, let alone ten thousand?

and that's just an eyeblink of time on a cosmic scale.

We may be colonizing the stars in just a few short millennia.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Technology is progressing at the rate of a geometric progression. It took humans 95% of our history to begin to experiment with agriculture, animal husbandry, mathematics, and written language. From there, the pace of progress has been ever faster and faster. Who knows where we might be in another thousand years, let alone ten thousand?

and that's just an eyeblink of time on a cosmic scale.

We may be colonizing the stars in just a few short millennia.
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If reincarnation is possible, I'd like to come back for that! :thumbs:
 
polgara said:
If reincarnation is possible, I'd like to come back for that! :thumbs:
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I dunno, Pol. That all depends on where you are when such a thing happens. You might prefer to remain right where you are at that time. I mean, I'm still trying to colonize my property. This colonization thing is demanding. No wonder the Persians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Romans and all the European powers gave it up.
 
eohrnberger said:
I don't think that missing the planet your are targeting is going to be a problem, as you'd have orbital data and know by how much you'd have to lead your target to hit it.

The distance thing is the problem, even with a light speed capability, it'd still be years. Guess we aren't going to be visiting any other star systems until we have some sort of warp capability to travel multiple light years in an instant, if we ever get to that or not, well, the physicists are still arguing about that, and if it's even possible with our current understanding of physics.
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That still brings up the problem of time and what else has happened in the meantime - your craft sets off at multiple light speed and you could hit anything on the way that was never in your calculations simply because the light from whatever object simply hadn't reached you to tell you it was there.

I think what might happen is more like we send exploratory unmanned craft out in future that might happen upon a life bearing planet - but knowing which way to aim that craft and adjusting for local movement still makes the whole thing a literal shot in the dark.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
That still brings up the problem of time and what else has happened in the meantime - your craft sets off at multiple light speed and you could hit anything on the way that was never in your calculations simply because the light from whatever object simply hadn't reached you to tell you it was there.

I think what might happen is more like we send exploratory unmanned craft out in future that might happen upon a life bearing planet - but knowing which way to aim that craft and adjusting for local movement still makes the whole thing a literal shot in the dark.
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Your FTL ship Colliding with an unknown at the time celestial body would seem to be a real problem. FTL probes making short hops out in front of your ship to make sure it's clear, gathering all the needed data until clear navigation can be established would seem to be the most reasonable path forward.

Like wow. Talk about a huge 3 dimensional database to calculate through to determine safe FTL targets in space/time. Another interesting IT problem that probably outstrips the current computing capabilities.
 
I tend to believe that the universe is fairly liberally seeded with primitive lifeforms. I think an advanced intelligent life-form (on the order of ourselves) is a rarer occurrence, perhaps one example per galaxy.

The entrenched problems regarding 'contact' remains the unimaginable distances involved, the speed of light constraint, and our abbreviated lifespans.

We're going to have to explore the cosmos remotely via pilot-less spaceships with multi-generational mission participation.
 
Dittohead not! said:
So, you don't remove more than is going in. In many places, there is a lot going in.
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the fear is that they wont do that

Oh, and there is a non economically feasible alternative to fresh water as well. It's called desalinization. Perhaps on day we'll find a way to do it more cheaply, and put an end to water wars once and for all.
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Yes that would be nice
 
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