Wind, solar power soaring in spite of bargain prices for fossil fuels

PIPEWRENCH said:

I am not surprised by this. It only makes sense to use the natural resources abundant in the area. In the SW desert of this country solar power is the logical choice when you have 300+ sunny days a year. Wind power makes sense in areas where the wind blows steady most of the year. In the NE where there are few sunny days and wind power is minimal but NG, coal, and oil are abundant and cheap the answer may be clean efficient fossil fuel plants. Instead of green power more stringent conservation on the use of energy may be the way to go. This is where are government struggles. They have same program for Main as they do Nevada when it comes to energy subsidies.

Click to expand...

Problem is, in my state, the 2 utility companies have used dark money funding to purchase candidates to back for the Corporation Commission, which is the state regulator on utilities. And of course they rubber stamped both utilities adding all kinds of BS charges to solar customers. The utilities know that their days of gouging are coming to an end.

Helix said:

as much as both sides want to rev it up, the cold war is over. if you really want to strike a blow against Russia, let them get embroiled in the region for the next couple decades as we exit and work on making their natural gas less valuable. ****, that's what killed the Soviet Union.

Click to expand...

This is true, but it gave us historical presence.

I agree. Let Russia fight in Syria. We should stay out of it, and leave Afghanistan as well, though I'm not interested in breaking them. I think Russia has potential now as a good world friend since we broke them in the 90's.

Lord of Planar said:

This is true, but it gave us historical presence.

I agree. Let Russia fight in Syria. We should stay out of it, and leave Afghanistan as well, though I'm not interested in breaking them. I think Russia has potential now as a good world friend since we broke them in the 90's.

Click to expand...

i mostly agree with that.

beefheart said:

Problem is, in my state, the 2 utility companies have used dark money funding to purchase candidates to back for the Corporation Commission, which is the state regulator on utilities. And of course they rubber stamped both utilities adding all kinds of BS charges to solar customers. The utilities know that their days of gouging are coming to an end.

Click to expand...

I wish you were right and it was coming to an end. The problem is they fund both parties. When we vote it is for their candidate. They have done an excellent job of not letting the people unite. As long as they keep us divided they can rule. For now I think we are still not smart enough to see through there smoke and mirrors. When the government decides what is taught in our schools is when we need to worry. Hitler proved that.

PIPEWRENCH said:

I wish you were right and it was coming to an end. The problem is they fund both parties. When we vote it is for their candidate. They have done an excellent job of not letting the people unite. As long as they keep us divided they can rule. For now I think we are still not smart enough to see through there smoke and mirrors. When the government decides what is taught in our schools is when we need to worry. Hitler proved that.

Click to expand...

One of the main problems for solar today are the laws which pay the homeowner the same
rate for surplus power as they pay the utility(net metering).
From an accounting point of view this is a dead end.
The utility to cover their actual costs, must increase rates for the power they sell, but this increases
the rate they pay homeowners for the surplus.
This is the area where the federal government can step in and set a standard policy, so all
the parties benefit.

longview said:

One of the main problems for solar today are the laws which pay the homeowner the same
rate for surplus power as they pay the utility(net metering).
From an accounting point of view this is a dead end.
The utility to cover their actual costs, must increase rates for the power they sell, but this increases
the rate they pay homeowners for the surplus.
This is the area where the federal government can step in and set a standard policy, so all
the parties benefit.

Click to expand...

I read that too. How many households actually produce more power than they use. I could see this becoming a real problem on the commercial level. I always thought of covered parking at grocery and department stores where the roofs were solar panels. They could easily produce more than they use. However if people drove electric cars and charged them while shopping it could be a win win for both parties. Rather than sell it back to the power companies they could sell it to their customers for the cost of maintaining the solar panels. You not only have covered parking but most likely they could sell the electricity at a bargain rate. The surplus would also run their store. Just a pipe dream. Making war has always taken priority.

PIPEWRENCH said:

I read that too. How many households actually produce more power than they use. I could see this becoming a real problem on the commercial level. I always thought of covered parking at grocery and department stores where the roofs were solar panels. They could easily produce more than they use. However if people drove electric cars and charged them while shopping it could be a win win for both parties. Rather than sell it back to the power companies they could sell it to their customers for the cost of maintaining the solar panels. You not only have covered parking but most likely they could sell the electricity at a bargain rate. The surplus would also run their store. Just a pipe dream. Making war has always taken priority.

Click to expand...

Yes!, once we hit anywhere near 50% solar homes, we will need to find something to do with all the surplus, else it harm the grid.
I think the refineries could surve the function as a dump load and make hydrocarbon fuels, as a storage device.
The homeowner could get fuel credits, for gasoline of home heating.

longview said:

Yes!, once we hit anywhere near 50% solar homes, we will need to find something to do with all the surplus, else it harm the grid.
I think the refineries could surve the function as a dump load and make hydrocarbon fuels, as a storage device.
The homeowner could get fuel credits, for gasoline of home heating.

Click to expand...

Until something better comes along, I think we need to make hydrogen, or something like Audi's e-fuels with the excess. Either can then be stored till needed.

Too bad supercapacitors or batteries that large would cost too much.

I love the idea of hydrogen at fixed locations. In homes, we could have gas water heaters, stoves, etc. that will also use hydrogen, and fuel cells for electricity.

Anomalism said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...4758b8-af19-11e5-9ab0-884d1cc4b33e_story.html

Click to expand...

Gee is there any wonder wind/solar go up with a feckless government making it the new corporate welfare while this administration has done everything imaginable through regulations and EO's to thwart any growth in fossil fuels while they have managed to put the coal industry on life support?

vesper said:

Gee is there any wonder wind/solar go up with a feckless government making it the new corporate welfare while this administration has done everything imaginable through regulations and EO's to thwart any growth in fossil fuels while they have managed to put the coal industry on life support?

Click to expand...

Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

:agree: The loss of jobs in the coal industry is bad, and we don't need more unemployed people in this Country! And I can't even go solar in this area! :thumbdown:

Today, when my son tried to get his car out of the garage to go to work, the things that open the door flew off in space! Uh Oh! The door is heavy, and though he tried repeatedly, he's not a one-man garage door opener. He called his boss, who came to pick him up, but this was at 0630 this morning. I called the company that has the warranty when they opened, but they said they're swamped with calls due to cold weather, and couldn't come till tomorrow. I was a prisoner in my house today, Vesper! :boohoo: When my son got home, his boss, my son, and a third worker did manually lift the door and his car is now outside, but it's below freezing! This has definitely not been an auspicious beginning to 2016 for me, since it seems like something unpleasant has happened every day, including the dog getting hurt with the thorny vine and other weird stuff like that, and it's only the 5th day of the new year! Sheesh! I'm going to start writing this stuff down....

Lord of Planar said:

Until something better comes along, I think we need to make hydrogen, or something like Audi's e-fuels with the excess. Either can then be stored till needed.

Too bad supercapacitors or batteries that large would cost too much.

I love the idea of hydrogen at fixed locations. In homes, we could have gas water heaters, stoves, etc. that will also use hydrogen, and fuel cells for electricity.

Click to expand...

Hydrogen is a very clean fuel, the concern I have is that hydrogen will be extracted from water molecules. So we would be replacing hydrocarbon fuel consumption with water consumption. It's not the kind of resource you want to run out of.

I wonder, is there another way to make hydrogen fuel without using water as the source?

Manny said:

Hydrogen is a very clean fuel, the concern I have is that hydrogen will be extracted from water molecules. So we would be replacing hydrocarbon fuel consumption with water consumption. It's not the kind of resource you want to run out of.

I wonder, is there another way to make hydrogen fuel without using water as the source?

Click to expand...

The beauty of hydrogen is when you burn it, you get water back in the process. If you make a closed system, you never need new water.

Lord of Planar said:

The beauty of hydrogen is when you burn it, you get water back in the process. If you make a closed system, you never need new water.

Click to expand...

Thanks, I remember a car salesman telling me that at an auto show years ago, when I asked the same thing about the efficiency of hydrogen production. Yes it's true the byproduct of hydrogen combustion is water, it's actually water vapour. Some say this is a greenhouse gas as well.
I think that there must be a net loss of water in the process that's not recoverable, per the laws of conservation. I've looked for more info but there's so much on google it's hard to find precisely the info I'm looking for.

If you have a source that shows the complete reaction, or the efficiency of production I would appreciate it!

Manny said:

Thanks, I remember a car salesman telling me that at an auto show years ago, when I asked the same thing about the efficiency of hydrogen production. Yes it's true the byproduct of hydrogen combustion is water, it's actually water vapour. Some say this is a greenhouse gas as well.
I think that there must be a net loss of water in the process that's not recoverable, per the laws of conservation. I've looked for more info but there's so much on google it's hard to find precisely the info I'm looking for.

If you have a source that shows the complete reaction, or the efficiency of production I would appreciate it!

Click to expand...

As far as I know, it's 100% conversion. It takes energy to change water from two H2O to two H2 on one O2 Then when you burn H2, you go back to water and recover the energy required to separate it.

It's basic chemistry.

Lord of Planar said:

As far as I know, it's 100% conversion. It takes energy to change water from two H2O to two H2 on one O2 Then when you burn H2, you go back to water and recover the energy required to separate it.

It's basic chemistry.

Click to expand...

Amazing!