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Last Resort Antibiotics May No Longer Work

Helix said:
there are major problems with the way the system is set up. an utterly beneficent company which didn't care about profits would be bought up in about ten seconds and turned into the exact opposite. and every time we try to fix it, half of the country freaks the **** out. i think that it can be improved, though. until then, a lot of us who do this kind of stuff actually do want safe and effective treatments, and work towards that goal every day.
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That's unfortunately the truth. Companies can't be completely altruistic and survive in a cut throat world. But people are the world's best resource for our continued existence, not just a few with unreal amounts of money. I didn't mean to demean your position in the business, because we're still way ahead of the game with modern medicine. I only wish we were a little more important to each other.
 
Summerwind said:
BTW, I also found that the MRSA likes sunshine and sweat, ie they caused it to explode and expand to more skin. Since you mention the sun,... usually with sores sunshine will help them dry and heal, not MRSA. I found I had to wear long sleeves regardless of how hot it might be or I'd come back with a dime sized spot "blooming" into three or four new spots and the dime size becoming a nickel sized and deeper into the skin. Just sayin'.

I don't know if I'm at all exotic, never really looked at myself that way.
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That's weird that a microbe likes excess UV. It may share some algae characteristics. No wonder typical medicine isn't working with an evolved species of biology.

Your background sounds interesting too me. I'm a mutt also with German, French, Irish and Native American genetics.
 
grip said:
That's unfortunately the truth. Companies can't be completely altruistic and survive in a cut throat world. But people are the world's best resource for our continued existence, not just a few with unreal amounts of money. I didn't mean to demean your position in the business, because we're still way ahead of the game with modern medicine. I only wish we were a little more important to each other.
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me, too. we're at a weird point in societal evolution where we see where we should be, but it's just so hard. and once again, me, too. makes me hope that we grow in the right direction. many aspects of our growth have been pretty positive.
 
Helix said:
me, too. we're at a weird point in societal evolution where we see where we should be, but it's just so hard. and once again, me, too. makes me hope that we grow in the right direction. many aspects of our growth have been pretty positive.
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We've actually been too effective in saving people with modern medicine and are a victim of our own success. But humanity could've been where our abilities dictate, which is another solar system, with an inhabitable planet, if we really applied ourselves. Maybe some smart kid in physics from MIT or Harvard will develop a way to leap instantly thru space soon, then we can afford to cure everyone.
 
That's sad, people have abused antibiotics to the extreme... Getting antibiotics without even testing if it's actually a viral infection, not finishing prescriptions because of "feeling better", etc...

Once antibiotics are ineffective, we know what that means, right? The death rate will start to climb.

Btw, not much better for those that use the antibacterial cleaners on everything, hand sanitizer, etc... Even people's immunities are getting weaker because we are trying to isolate ourselves.

Oh, and those people that DO use antibiotics responsibly, well, we have to deal with this as well.
 
Helix said:
antibiotic discovery is very expensive and not as immediately profitable as other new drugs, so it's not happening in the private sector as much as it used to. i would support expanding public sector research and development in this area.
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I was astonished last year to discover that in the decade since I survived the necrotizing version, there remains nothing beyond Vancomycin. This must be addressed.

A PSA: If you have a scratch or cut that reddens and turns warm, seek medical treatment immediately. Do not wait. If what you have is necrotizing fasciitis or necrotizing cellulitis, you could be dead within 24 hours. These infections are vicious, and the mortality rate is extremely high. Do not self-diagnose or self-treat.
 
MaggieD said:
Your personal use of antibiotics means little. It isn't YOU who becomes immune to their power, it's the bug you caught.
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You only read part of my post. please read the full thing.
Doctors told to stop prescribing antibiotics for coughs and colds to ensure infections don't become resistant to them | Daily Mail Online

by not routinely taking anti-biotics your body builds up immunity and resistance to those bugs.
so that if you do need them they are not as resistant.

that is why countries are wanting to ban the use of them over common colds and things.
 
Did we all think that when subjected to antibiotic attack that bacterial evolution would just somehow stop? Stop and not develop resistance?
 
eohrnberger said:
Did we all think that when subjected to antibiotic attack that bacterial evolution would just somehow stop? Stop and not develop resistance?
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Oh, these things are crafty devils and respond by becoming "super-bugs." That's why research on new antibiotic weapons must go forward.
 
SMTA said:
I read about some promising research in obtaining new antibiotics from soil.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/41850/title/New-Antibiotic-from-Soil-Bacteria/
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This is exciting. From the abstract of the article [bolding mine]:

Here we report a new antibiotic that we term teixobactin, discovered in a screen of uncultured bacteria. Teixobactin inhibits cell wall synthesis by binding to a highly conserved motif of lipid II (precursor of peptidoglycan) and lipid III (precursor of cell wall teichoic acid). We did not obtain any mutants of Staphylococcus aureus or Mycobacterium tuberculosis resistant to teixobactin. The properties of this compound suggest a path towards developing antibiotics that are likely to avoid development of resistance. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v517/n7535/full/nature14098.html
 
nota bene said:
This is exciting. From the abstract of the article [bolding mine]:

Here we report a new antibiotic that we term teixobactin, discovered in a screen of uncultured bacteria. Teixobactin inhibits cell wall synthesis by binding to a highly conserved motif of lipid II (precursor of peptidoglycan) and lipid III (precursor of cell wall teichoic acid). We did not obtain any mutants of Staphylococcus aureus or Mycobacterium tuberculosis resistant to teixobactin. The properties of this compound suggest a path towards developing antibiotics that are likely to avoid development of resistance. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v517/n7535/full/nature14098.html
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I smell some expertise that you have in medicine, eh?
 
nota bene said:
This is exciting. From the abstract of the article [bolding mine]:

Here we report a new antibiotic that we term teixobactin, discovered in a screen of uncultured bacteria. Teixobactin inhibits cell wall synthesis by binding to a highly conserved motif of lipid II (precursor of peptidoglycan) and lipid III (precursor of cell wall teichoic acid). We did not obtain any mutants of Staphylococcus aureus or Mycobacterium tuberculosis resistant to teixobactin. The properties of this compound suggest a path towards developing antibiotics that are likely to avoid development of resistance. http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v517/n7535/full/nature14098.html
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After posting this string yesterday, I too did a little homework and found 'teixobactin.'
Alas the company that makes it wasn't public/investible.
Technology, Compounds and Publications — Novobiotic Pharmaceuticals

I was a long time Sciam reader, but am also financial professional, and usually quickly skimmed first for any public co/investible ideas, and then read/enjoyed the rest over a few weeks.
 
Teixobactin hasn't been tested yet on humans, but this does provide some hope. The way things stand now, if Vancomycin doesn't work, that's the end of your show. I hope I have at least one act left in my own personal play. :lol:
 
digsbe said:
People go to urgent care clinics not needing an antibiotic and get one anyway, prescribers write them oftentimes to boost customer service and because many patients have the mindset of if they paid to see someone in an office that they are owed a prescription for something.

We're also using antibiotics inappropriately in hospitals and not checking the local antibiogram like we should.
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That is true, but, from what I have read/heard, that is not the biggest problem. The biggest problem is not taking enough antibiotics when you are sick. Taking antibiotics when you have no infection will not produce antibiotic-resistant bacteria as their is little bacteria in your system to become immune. It is definitely not good to take antibiotics when you are not sick...but there are worse culprits, imo.

Too many people stop taking their antibiotics as soon as they feel better. Or times when doctors are not able to completely kill off more serious bacteria. What that does is kill most of the bacteria, but not all of it. What is left becomes slightly more immune to the antibiotic and the next time it comes back, it is harder to kill. And so on and so on.

If bacteria were being completely killed every time, then I assume there would be no problems as described in the OP article. But they aren't, so these bacteria are getting stronger and stronger.

I assume I will be dead before this becomes truly serious. But obviously one day it will be and I would not want to be around if/when it does - assuming no alternative is found. Going back to the days of LOTS of healthy people dying of the 'common' flu (like 100 years ago) sounds awful.
 
It's already serious. Locker rooms and dental offices are among the risky places, and you already know how deadly a hospital can be. One of my community's medical centers did a self-study three years ago, thinking that their measures were exceptional. You know those curtains that are slid back and forth to provide patient privacy in ERs? These were covered in killer cooties.
 
The right prescription to combat antibiotic resistance | Department of Health
November 27, 2015 Health | By Bridget Leonard

"....The achievements of modern medicine at being put at risk by antibiotic resistance, World Health Organization warned. Uncompleted treatments increase antibiotic resistance and threaten patient recovery.

"The rise of antibiotic resistance is a global health crisis". Obviously, the term actually refers to bacteria becoming resistant to drugs. "Without urgent action, we are heading for a post-antibiotic era, in which common infections and minor injuries can once again kill".

"The antibiotics that are fed to the animals lead to the development of antibiotic resistant bacteria in the animal", study co-author Dr. Theoklis Zaoutis of the University of Pennsylvania and the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia said by email. The research results are about what you'd expect - people have heard of antibacterial resistance but don't know what it is, they think you can treat colds and flus with antibiotics, and they stop taking their antibiotics as soon as they feel better instead of finishing their treatment.

The Washington State Department of Health is launching a partnership to combat antibiotic resistant bacteria and urges everyone - the public, prescribers, and food producers - to use antibiotics wisely to prevent antibiotic resistance. "One of the biggest health challenges of the 21st century will require global behaviour change by individuals and societies", he added.

One-third to one-half of antibiotics used in people are unnecessary or inappropriate, and contribute to antibiotic resistance....​
 
mbig said:
The right prescription to combat antibiotic resistance | Department of Health
November 27, 2015 Health | By Bridget Leonard

"....The achievements of modern medicine at being put at risk by antibiotic resistance, World Health Organization warned. Uncompleted treatments increase antibiotic resistance and threaten patient recovery.

"The rise of antibiotic resistance is a global health crisis". Obviously, the term actually refers to bacteria becoming resistant to drugs. "Without urgent action, we are heading for a post-antibiotic era, in which common infections and minor injuries can once again kill".

"The antibiotics that are fed to the animals lead to the development of antibiotic resistant bacteria in the animal", study co-author Dr. Theoklis Zaoutis of the University of Pennsylvania and the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia said by email. The research results are about what you'd expect - people have heard of antibacterial resistance but don't know what it is, they think you can treat colds and flus with antibiotics, and they stop taking their antibiotics as soon as they feel better instead of finishing their treatment.

The Washington State Department of Health is launching a partnership to combat antibiotic resistant bacteria and urges everyone - the public, prescribers, and food producers - to use antibiotics wisely to prevent antibiotic resistance. "One of the biggest health challenges of the 21st century will require global behaviour change by individuals and societies", he added.

One-third to one-half of antibiotics used in people are unnecessary or inappropriate, and contribute to antibiotic resistance....​
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Two things, first if about one half of antibiotics are prescribed unnecessarily, then stopping them early shouldn't matter for that half.
Secondly, I am one that didn't ever finish a with the antibiotic regimes I was given. And I never had a recurrence of that issue whatever it was. I get that if one stops and then the bacteria gains new life because of it, then you've done as suggested, but if the infection is truly clearing in 4 days instead of 10 and remains cleared after stopping taking the meds at 4.5 or 5 days, I don't see the problem.

The only time I quit taking/using the antibiotics prescribed and had continuing problems was with the second round of antibiotics that I was prescribed for MRSA-CA because like the first round they were having zero effect after 7 days, if anything they made it worse, so I stopped and went back to my kitchen-y solutions that did end up working, albeit painfully.
 
Summerwind said:
Two things, first if about one half of antibiotics are prescribed unnecessarily, then stopping them early shouldn't matter for that half.
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Not at all.
It could turn a benign bug with limted staying power into a stronger one.
Summerwind said:
Secondly, I am one that didn't ever finish a with the antibiotic regimes I was given. And I never had a recurrence of that issue whatever it was. I get that if one stops and then the bacteria gains new life because of it, then you've done as suggested, but if the infection is truly clearing in 4 days instead of 10 and remains cleared after stopping taking the meds at 4.5 or 5 days, I don't see the problem.
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See above.

Summerwind said:
The only time I quit taking/using the antibiotics prescribed and had continuing problems was with the second round of antibiotics that I was prescribed for MRSA-CA because like the first round they were having zero effect after 7 days, if anything they made it worse, so I stopped and went back to my kitchen-y solutions that did end up working, albeit painfully.
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And you're helping MRSA become MRSA.
Not to mention being a prime example of how it became MRSA: other cavalier antibiotic users.
 
mbig said:
Not at all.
It could turn a benign bug with limted staying power into a stronger one.
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Not if the antibiotic wasn't necessary in the first place since it wouldn't target the "bug" in question anyway. IE it was a virus and not an infection at all.
See above.
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If the "bug" doesn't reappear within that individual then again, not likely to cause one to be stronger as the antibiotic did it's work. I already suggested that should the "bug" reappear when the course of meds isn't finished, then clearly it may have happened.
And you're helping MRSA become MRSA.
Not to mention being a prime example of how it became MRSA: other cavalier antibiotic users.
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Actually not at all. If the meds aren't working, (ie showing improvement even if the infection isn't gone entirely) at all within 4-5 days, they aren't going to work at all. My method did kill off all the infection for that round. MRSA-CA however tends to recur within individuals that have had it once, even if an antibiotic regime is chosen and works for the round in question, which for me they did not, not the first round of meds, nor the second even more powerful round of meds.
 
grip said:
I get very red looking infected areas around my skin breaks that take forever to heal. I had a nurse neighbor tell me it looks like MRSA. She said you never really get rid of the systemic skin infection, your body just eventually assimilates it, like herpes. Colloidal silver and honey are probably not even very effective against these super infections.
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Colloidal silver and honey are not effective against any infections.
 
eohrnberger said:
Did we all think that when subjected to antibiotic attack that bacterial evolution would just somehow stop? Stop and not develop resistance?
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Uhh, no. Nobody thought that.
 
Deuce said:
Uhh, no. Nobody thought that.
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Probably should have thought of that then. Consequences of our actions and all that.
Weren't there some really smart people who had already called this out?
Didn't we may any attention to them? (Maybe we should have?)
 
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eohrnberger said:
Probably should have thought of that then. Consequences of our actions and all that.
Weren't there some really smart people who had already called this out?
Didn't we may any attention to them? (Maybe we should have?)
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Yes. People did call this out because people did anticipate this.
 
Deuce said:
Yes. People did call this out because people did anticipate this.
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OK. So wouldn't the next step be to determine who down played the threat, wouldn't react to the thread, would take appropriate measures, and like stop listening to them specific to health issues such as this?

After all, resistance is exactly what the theory of evolution predicted, right?
 
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