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Reverse Debates Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry; I apologize for just vanishing off the face of the earth, but dam those Martians know how to throe a ...

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Old 01-02-07, 05:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

I apologize for just vanishing off the face of the earth, but dam those Martians know how to throe a new years party!

Wwwoooohhoow!!!

What happens on Mars, stays on Mars.

Anyway.....


As is typical of Pro-Life supporters, my esteemed opponents LeftyHenry and 1069 have posed arguments composed of demagoguery such as "human life", "murder", "killing babies", "wrath of science" "elitist procedures", and related pictures, in an attempt to sway their ideological opposition with the power of the emotional appeal of babies.

Their argument, however visually powerful and emotionally compelling, appeals to emotion, and such arguments only complicate and worsen the situation by giving each side reason to dig down and close themselves off to new information; so all such arguments can not be considered.

LeftyHenry innocently misunderstands the law, so I will correct what errors I have seen.

Murder is " the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought ( prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority."

First may I say that painting all abortions with the same wide brush is rather misleading, IMO, as there is a clear difference between a first trimester abortion and a late term abortion.

If you will note, Pro-Life does not post pictures of aborted Zygotes in their arguments precisely because an aborted Zygote, which does not resemble a human in any way, does not carry with it the same emotional appeal as do pictures of aborted fetuses.

Secondly, and most importantly, only "a human being" can be "murdered".
Per Roe-v-Wade Section 9a, the unborn is not a "person", and is thus not " a human being", therefore the unborn can not be "murdered".

LeftyHenry's argument conceded as much:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftyHenry View Post
One person is telling, what is soon to be another, that he doesn't deserve to live, that he is scum and lesser of a person almost like what a rascist would tell a person of a minority race during the Jim Crow period.
...a "soon to be" person is not a person today, and so there is no crime of Murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
In the US, abortion has created a culture where promiscuous and indiscriminate premarital sex is normative behavior, and where sex has been entirely disconnected from its original function: procreation.
One does not need to be religious to realize that disconnected from any consequences or responsibility, disconnected from the very act of procreation itself, sex has become a negative force, and has had many detrimental effects on our society in the three decades since Roe, not the least of which has been an incremental but progressive devaluation of regard for the sanctity of human life, not to mention the breakdown of moral values and the deconstruction of gender roles, which is leading to the destruction of the traditional family.

A recent study conducted by the General Social Survey (GSS) of the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago shows that the percentage of kids who live with both biological parents, who remain married, has dropped precipitously from 73% in 1972 to 51.7% in 1998.
Twenty-eight years ago 45% of households consisted of married couples with children. In 1998, that percentage had fallen to 26%.
The report concludes that today "families are smaller and less stable, marriage is less central and cohabitation more common, the value of children and values for children have altered, and within marriages gender roles have become less traditional and more egalitarian."

Globally, abortion has created even greater problems: the practice of sex-selective abortion throughout Asia has created a severe sex-ratio imbalance in favor of males. It is estimated that by the year 2020 there could be more than 35 million young 'surplus males' in China and 25 million in India, which will no doubt give rise to a generation of restless young men who will not find mates. History, biology, and sociology all suggest that these "surplus males" will generate high levels of crime and social disorder.
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Old 01-02-07, 06:07 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry
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I'm sure that's an amazingly witty and succinct response to my opening arguments; however, I've had a difficult day at work and am unable to decypher the meaning of it.
Would you care to elaborate?
I'm not sure how to counter... a link to a video game.

It would be like if I countered your opening argument (in the hypothetical event that you ever bothered to make one) by posting a link to some midget porn or something; the relevance simply isn't clear. At least to me. At least at the moment.
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Old 01-03-07, 11:55 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
I'm sure that's an amazingly witty and succinct response to my opening arguments; however, I've had a difficult day at work and am unable to decypher the meaning of it.
Would you care to elaborate?
I'm not sure how to counter... a link to a video game.

It would be like if I countered your opening argument (in the hypothetical event that you ever bothered to make one) by posting a link to some midget porn or something; the relevance simply isn't clear. At least to me. At least at the moment.
As soon as you give link or spicific citation in support of your argument, you will have an argument.

Until then, for all the casual reader knows your argument has about as much base in reality as the referenced video game.

If you would have me agree that there are certain unfavorable consequences of abortion, then please, lets see the research you started out with before reaching your conclusion.
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Old 01-03-07, 12:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
As soon as you give link or spicific citation in support of your argument, you will have an argument.

Until then, for all the casual reader knows your argument has about as much base in reality as the referenced video game.

If you would have me agree that there are certain unfavorable consequences of abortion, then please, lets see the research you started out with before reaching your conclusion.
Naw...see...I was reading all sorts of symbolism into the futile effort to blast those asteroids and run into those electric egg thingies. It was just to point out the lack of reality?...bummer.




Is this debate gonna take off or what? Dangit...I'm gettin' impatient.
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Old 01-03-07, 01:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
Naw...see...I was reading all sorts of symbolism into the futile effort to blast those asteroids and run into those electric egg thingies. It was just to point out the lack of reality?...bummer.




Is this debate gonna take off or what? Dangit...I'm gettin' impatient.
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Old 01-03-07, 01:44 PM   #16 (permalink)
...It's a state of being

 
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Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
****TAG****
Okay..smarty pants... (just a little Team Pro-Choice camaraderie! )

Anywho, LeftyHenry and 1069...I did respond to your posts (prior to an opening post), so...what say you?
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Old 01-03-07, 03:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Thread Starter Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

Aright I'm busy today two so I'll just respond to Jerry's post. Then as soon as I have time I deal with you felicity
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Old 01-03-07, 03:40 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Thread Starter Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
As is typical of Pro-Life supporters, my esteemed opponents LeftyHenry and 1069 have posed arguments composed of demagoguery such as "human life", "murder", "killing babies", "wrath of science" "elitist procedures", and related pictures, in an attempt to sway their ideological opposition with the power of the emotional appeal of babies.
The pictures are not an emotional appeal, they are reality. Pro-Choicers often forget the utter barbarity of abortion; these pictures help illustrate and are aimed to remind pro-choicers just how awful aboriton is and how it is now a tool for genocide of woman in China and India.


Quote:
LeftyHenry innocently misunderstands the law, so I will correct what errors I have seen.

Murder is " the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought ( prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority."
This proves my point exactly. If it wasn't for the elitist liberal murderers, it wouldn't be a law and would be murder! Who are we, the living and breathing, to decide what is right and what is wrong? The pictures I have posted are just as bloody and barbaric as a picture of a murdered born human looks like.

Quote:
First may I say that painting all abortions with the same wide brush is rather misleading, IMO, as there is a clear difference between a first trimester abortion and a late term abortion.

If you will note, Pro-Life does not post pictures of aborted Zygotes in their arguments precisely because an aborted Zygote, which does not resemble a human in any way, does not carry with it the same emotional appeal as do pictures of aborted fetuses.
Of course, but give a zygote several months and it'll be breathing like you and me.
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Old 01-03-07, 03:56 PM   #19 (permalink)
...It's a state of being

 
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Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

Since the opposing side seems to have decided we're not doing the "tag" thing as was originally suggested in PMs, I defer to Jerry as requested until I hear from you LeftyHenry.
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Old 01-03-07, 04:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Reverse Debate Tag-Team #1: Abortion, 1069-LeftyHenry vs. Felicity-Jerry

So is Jerry going to make an opening statement, or is "Your argument sucks" his entire platform?
If so, I think the ersatz "prochoicers" ought to concede defeat now.
And I will warn Jerry that on the basis of the two reverse debates he's participated in so far, it's unlikely that anyone will agree to RD him again.
If RD is something he's interested in pursuing, I suggest he pull his socks up and get with the program.
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