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Can Someone Explain Being "Saved?"

thinkagain said:
A quick google comes up with : Protestants account for nearly forty percent of Christians worldwide
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Right. Which is why I explained the problem with those figures.

thinkagain said:
A large segment of Christianity (the only segment prior to the 16th Century) does not believe that "being saved" means Sola Fide.
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That's a legitimate point. Saying "most of Christianity", on the other hand, was questionable.

thinkagain said:
So the answer to the question of the OP is, it depends who you ask.
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Obviously. Which is why we've seen a variety of opinions here.
 
Crovax said:
"being saved" in the context asked by the OP is just another term for sola fide
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Not really.
Salvation is the belief in God that Christ is the Son of God became flesh, died for the forgiveness of sin,
Rose again, and we have asked him for our forgiveness.

This is a changing of nature.
 
Salvation is the gift of eternal life given by the grace of God, through faith, in Jesus Christ. It is a whole work of God in which we are merely the recipients; a gift we cannot pay for in works or deed, that we do not deserve, and cannot earn. A gift which came at a great price, paid-for in-full on the cross by the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, in His death, burial, and resurrection.

One moment dead in our trespasses and sins; the next, washed in the blood of the Lamb. At that moment, a person is born again. Their eyes are opened, their spirit is made alive by the Holy Spirit, and the Lord begins to speak and guide them into His Word and new life.

This is not something that we do; it's entirely a work of God alone.
 
In Christianity the need to be 'saved' stems from the concept of original sin, right?
 
Sherman123 said:
In Christianity the need to be 'saved' stems from the concept of original sin, right?
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For the most part, although what people mean by "original sin" varies. Those who view the Genesis creation account as allegory, for example, are more prone to put themselves in the place of Adam and view themselves as needing salvation because of the forbidden fruits they have consumed rather than based on some kind of inheritance.
 
Sherman123 said:
In Christianity the need to be 'saved' stems from the concept of original sin, right?
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We're being 'saved from' the penalty of sin - which is death - and given the gift of eternal life.
 
Schism said:
We're being 'saved from' the penalty of sin - which is death - and given the gift of eternal life.
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Gotcha, I knew it was a big difference with Judaism I just wasn't sure precisely what the point of diversion was. Thanks!
 
Schism said:
We're being 'saved from' the penalty of sin - which is death - and given the gift of eternal life.
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The whole doctrine of Original Sin is based on the Garden of Eden story, and the guilt is "inherited" now by all of humanity. Is that correct? Then what was the purpose of Jesus' death?
 
JohnPaul said:
The whole doctrine of Original Sin is based on the Garden of Eden story, and the guilt is "inherited" now by all of humanity. Is that correct?
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That is incorrect on two grounds.

1. If we removed the Garden of Eden story from our bibles, the idea of original sin and the need for atonement would still exist; it is pervasive throughout the scriptures and referenced in numerous places both directly and indirectly. Thus I don't think it is accurate to claim that the doctrine is based on this story. The story of the Garden of Eden gives background and context to the doctrine of original sin and provides us with a useful metaphor for understanding it. Without that story, the doctrine of original sin would still exist, it would just be more vague and difficult to understand. The doctrine of original sin is based on the totality of biblical evidence, which includes the Garden of Eden account but is not limited to it.

2. Not everyone believes in an inherited guilt. As previously mentioned, those who view the Garden of Eden account allegorically are interested in what it says about the human condition and the reality that they themselves have eaten of their own forbidden fruits.

JohnPaul said:
Then what was the purpose of Jesus' death?
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Christianity believes that Jesus' death atoned for our sins and reconciled us with God, meaning we now have a path to living eternally with God free from the stain of sin.

I'm not sure what else to say about this without knowing what your specific concerns about this are. If you are concerned with the details of how Christ's death could accomplish this, then you may want to read the various "atonement theories", or type that into youtube and watch some videos about it. If what concerns you is the question of whether Christ's death atoned for all sin or just some sin, and/or how do people get saved then "soteriology" is the term you want to look for.
 
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Many chrstians just want to go to heaven by believing in Jesus.WHAT about the rest ? Virtue ethics mentioned in Bible ?Caring about the others ?they seem to miss the most important point
 
Medusa said:
Many chrstians just want to go to heaven by believing in Jesus.WHAT about the rest ? Virtue ethics mentioned in Bible ?Caring about the others ?they seem to miss the most important point
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No, I think most christians know all of that even if they don't know the proper terminology. Most sermons in typical churches deal with such issues, so the average Christian hears a message about being a better person once a week. What you call "the rest" is what churches talk the most about.
 
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CrabCake said:
That is incorrect on two grounds.

1. If we removed the Garden of Eden story from our bibles, the idea of original sin and the need for atonement would still exist; it is pervasive throughout the scriptures and referenced in numerous places both directly and indirectly. Thus I don't think it is accurate to claim that the doctrine is based on this story. The story of the Garden of Eden gives background and context to the doctrine of original sin and provides us with a useful metaphor for understanding it. Without that story, the doctrine of original sin would still exist, it would just be more vague and difficult to understand. The doctrine of original sin is based on the totality of biblical evidence, which includes the Garden of Eden account but is not limited to it.

2. Not everyone believes in an inherited guilt. As previously mentioned, those who view the Garden of Eden account allegorically are interested in what it says about the human condition and the reality that they themselves have eaten of their own forbidden fruits.



Christianity believes that Jesus' death atoned for our sins and reconciled us with God, meaning we now have a path to living eternally with God free from the stain of sin.

I'm not sure what else to say about this without knowing what your specific concerns about this are. If you are concerned with the details of how Christ's death could accomplish this, then you may want to read the various "atonement theories", or type that into youtube and watch some videos about it. If what concerns you is the question of whether Christ's death atoned for all sin or just some sin, and/or how do people get saved then "soteriology" is the term you want to look for.
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My question was, if the death of Jesus atoned for our sins, then why are we still guilty of original sin? Why is original sin even relevant since the death of Jesus?

I am an agnostic. I don't deny Christianity, but neither do I accept it. There are too many questions and contradictions. I was once kicked out of Sunday School class for persistently asking where the sons of Adam and Eve found their wives. I expressed the opinion that it must have been incest with sisters. I then rather crudely explained to my little classmates what incest was. They were fascinated, but the old teacher was not. Anyway, I never got an answer.
 
JohnPaul said:
My question was, if the death of Jesus atoned for our sins, then why are we still guilty of original sin? Why is original sin even relevant since the death of Jesus?
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I was waiting until I had time to give a more complete response, but it seems that won't be any time soon. So, a short response will have to suffice.

The dominant view is that Christ's sacrifice was sufficient to cover all sins but is only effective for some (those who accept it, those who are predestined, etc.). Think of it like a grant. There may be a grant with enough money to pay your college tuition, but if you don't apply for it, then you're on your own in trying to pay for college.

The other popular view, held primarily by 5 point Calvinists, is that Jesus did not die to make possible the salvation of all, but rather to make certain the salvation of some. In other words, Jesus' sacrifice was for the elect, those whom he foreordained would be chosen for eternal life.

The last option is universal reconciliation. This view holds that Jesus died for everyone and thus everyone will eventually be saved. This view is beautifully illustrated in this popular Christian song:

Notice the part that says:
One day every tongue will confess you are God,
One day every knee will bow,
Still the greatest treasure remains for those who gladly choose you now.
 
_Sal said:
hm

not exactly about trying to rise above one's self then is it...just embrace the "Jesus is my savior" and one is good to go

I find that kinda sad actually
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They call it the ABC's. A - Admit to God that you are a sinner. B - Believe that Jesus Christ is God's son and he died on the cross for your sins. C - Confess and turn away from your sins. There is a sinner's prayer that goes a little something like this:

Dear Jesus,

I know that I am a sinner that is on my way to hell. I know that you died on my cross for my sins. Please come into my heart and become savior of my life.

Amen

This is what all Evangelical Christians believe that you need in order to protect yourself from God's wrath. The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ. God hates sin so much that He punishes it with eternal damnation and separation from God. Once Christ has come into your life then God no longer sees your sin. He sees you as His son.
 
_Sal said:
hm

not exactly about trying to rise above one's self then is it...just embrace the "Jesus is my savior" and one is good to go

I find that kinda sad actually
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In the 1800's Christianity was waning in popularity. Some con artist figured out a way to make Christianity cool. He grabbed a few scriptures here and there and composed the concept of getting saved. It is really beautiful and very appealing. It puts the ball in your court instead of being in God's court. He has to save you on your terms rather than on His terms which appears to be contrary to most theological knowledge. It is a beautiful flavor of Christianity even though I clearly see the philosophical and moral failures of it. There is absolutely no incentive to behave at all. There is no persona of God that secretly encourages you to respect authority. Evangelical Christianity pretty much undermines the goal of Biblical scholarship. I'm very interested in the concept of "getting saved". We are fortunate here in the United States. There is an abundance of adherents to this school of thought and they are more than eager to share their knowledge with you anytime, anywhere and on any occasion.
 
blackjack50 said:
This may sound like an odd question, but I am a Presbyterian. I don't believe in being "saved. So I am wondering if someone can explain that to me and the theology behind it.
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Great thread. Great question.
 
_Sal said:
that is an interesting perspective although I find it harsh while I find God to be loving

thanks for the explanation
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God is not all loving. That is a very common misconception. God hates the proud. God hates the lover of violence. God hates many types of people. He even hated Hitler. I'm not sure why people cover their ears and scream, "la la la la I can't hear you Bible" whenever those parts of the Bible are spoken. God does not love all people. That is flat out bull. The Bible says whatever the Bible says no matter how long you covered your ears or refused to read it. This topic makes me a little crazy. The other thing I can't stand is when people say that the Bible says we shouldn't judge. Very silly and childish. People hate the Bible with militantly hateful passion but pretend they love it. It makes me feel a little mad deep inside of my soul. If you want to have views that are contrary to scripture then that is fine. It is not fine when you have views that are contrary to scripture and then lie about what the Bible says. That is when it gets me all upset. I need to take my meds now.
 
_Sal said:
what kindergarten argument?

you are being non-sensical...explain what you mean, don't just yap off about my kindergarten argument explain what you are babbling about

you took an answer I made to another poster ... what do you think I was saying? and what is your response to that?
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He is claiming that Biblical standards are difficult to live up to which is true. He wants to know what moral authority or set of standards that you use that force you to improve. He is supposedly ignoring the Evangelical Christian's model of saying a magical prayer that forces Jesus to wash away all of your sins. That is not a high standard and actually disincentivizes the person to seek self improvement. I haven't read everything in this thread yet. Maybe he has already answered you. Some people disappear when they get stumped.
 
_Sal said:
yes many are saying this, that according to Christian belief, regardless of the goodness of a human being or how selfless they are going to burn in hell for all of eternity?

is there not a kind of disparity here between a loving god and a condemnation for all of eternity?
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If I understand the concept of being an omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent being correctly, a god can do whatever they want. We don't really have to like God or like His preferences. He can do whatever He wants which includes many possibilities. Our opinions are very much irrelevant.
 
Mainelaw said:
God is not all loving. That is a very common misconception. God hates the proud. God hates the lover of violence. God hates many types of people. He even hated Hitler. I'm not sure why people cover their ears and scream, "la la la la I can't hear you Bible" whenever those parts of the Bible are spoken. God does not love all people. That is flat out bull. The Bible says whatever the Bible says no matter how long you covered your ears or refused to read it. This topic makes me a little crazy. The other thing I can't stand is when people say that the Bible says we shouldn't judge. Very silly and childish. People hate the Bible with militantly hateful passion but pretend they love it. It makes me feel a little mad deep inside of my soul. If you want to have views that are contrary to scripture then that is fine. It is not fine when you have views that are contrary to scripture and then lie about what the Bible says. That is when it gets me all upset. I need to take my meds now.
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I don't know where you get this from, God loves all people, but He does hate some of their behavior.
 
As a non-believer in this type of stuff I nevertheless believe that there are some sound science behind it, relating to the easing of stresses and tensions. It is healthy to let irrational worries recede. And I would consider concerns about an afterlife to be irrational. Belief that you are going to Heaven or saved is probably a great stress reliever if you can buy into it and does no harm.
 
it's just me said:
I don't know where you get this from, God loves all people, but He does hate some of their behavior.
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It is my opinion that God hates a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, he that soweth discord among brethren, all who do iniquity, the one who loves violence, the people of Gilgal, the bloody and deceitful man, congregations of evil doers, them that regard lying vanities, them who have no fear and encampeth against God, three shepherds that hated God and all of those that He lets go to hell.

I'm not sure where I got that information. I think I read it on a Chic Tract or something. I can't remember exactly.

When I said that people hate the Bible with militantly hateful passion but pretend they love it I was just speaking from personal observation. That wasn't anything I read.
 
Mainelaw said:
It is my opinion that God hates a proud look, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, an heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, a false witness that speaketh lies, he that soweth discord among brethren, all who do iniquity, the one who loves violence, the people of Gilgal, the bloody and deceitful man, congregations of evil doers, them that regard lying vanities, them who have no fear and encampeth against God, three shepherds that hated God and all of those that He lets go to hell.

I'm not sure where I got that information. I think I read it on a Chic Tract or something. I can't remember exactly.

When I said that people hate the Bible with militantly hateful passion but pretend they love it I was just speaking from personal observation. That wasn't anything I read.
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That was your first mistake. Chick tracts are often unbiblical. Do a search for God's love in the Blue Letter Bible or your favorite translation.
 
it's just me said:
That was your first mistake. Chick tracts are often unbiblical. Do a search for God's love in the Blue Letter Bible or your favorite translation.
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Here are a few verses that tell about God's love from the MaineLaw translation:

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou lovest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will love the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul loveth.

Psalm 26:5 I have loved the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked.

Psalm 31:6 I have loved them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.

Psalm 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD loveth.

Psalm 53:5 There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath loved them.

Leviticus 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I loved them.

Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall love you.

Deuteronomy 32:19 And when the LORD saw it, he loved them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD love: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

Proverbs 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Proverbs 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

Proverbs 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 22:14 The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is loved of the LORD shall fall therein.

Psalm 139:21 Do not I love them, O LORD, that love thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Psalm 139:22 I love them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loved them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I loved them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will still love them: all their princes are revolters.

Malachi 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

Malachi 1:3 And I loved Esau too, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I loved too.

My translation is way better than the Blue Letter Bible. I just changed the word hate to love to make the scripture more palatable. :) Good thinking, huh?
 
Mainelaw said:
Here are a few verses that tell about God's love from the MaineLaw translation:

Psalm 5:5 The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou lovest all workers of iniquity.

Psalm 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will love the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalm 11:5 The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul loveth.

Psalm 26:5 I have loved the congregation of evil doers; and will not sit with the wicked.

Psalm 31:6 I have loved them that regard lying vanities: but I trust in the LORD.

Psalm 10:3 For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD loveth.

Psalm 53:5 There were they in great fear, where no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth against thee: thou hast put them to shame, because God hath loved them.

Leviticus 20:23 And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I loved them.

Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall love you.

Deuteronomy 32:19 And when the LORD saw it, he loved them, because of the provoking of his sons, and of his daughters.

Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD love: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

Proverbs 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

Proverbs 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

Proverbs 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Proverbs 22:14 The mouth of strange women is a deep pit: he that is loved of the LORD shall fall therein.

Psalm 139:21 Do not I love them, O LORD, that love thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?

Psalm 139:22 I love them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Zechariah 11:8 Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul loved them, and their soul also abhorred me.

Hosea 9:15 All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I loved them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will still love them: all their princes are revolters.

Malachi 1:2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

Malachi 1:3 And I loved Esau too, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I loved too.

My translation is way better than the Blue Letter Bible. I just changed the word hate to love to make the scripture more palatable. :) Good thinking, huh?
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No.....
 
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