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Can Someone Explain Being "Saved?"

blackjack50

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This may sound like an odd question, but I am a Presbyterian. I don't believe in being "saved. So I am wondering if someone can explain that to me and the theology behind it.
 
This may sound like an odd question, but I am a Presbyterian. I don't believe in being "saved. So I am wondering if someone can explain that to me and the theology behind it.

I'm pretty sure Presbyterians do.

Being saved just means that you have accepted Jesus as your personal savior and that is the only way to heaven.
 
This may sound like an odd question, but I am a Presbyterian. I don't believe in being "saved. So I am wondering if someone can explain that to me and the theology behind it.

It's just another term for accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. :)

Presbyterians don't believe in salvation?
 
I'm pretty sure Presbyterians do.

Being saved just means that you have accepted Jesus as your personal savior and that is the only way to heaven.

so if someone does and they truly believe that but they are in a bad life situation and make all kinds of bad choices...they still go to heaven

as opposed to

someone who does not believe that but make all kinds of good choices...they are going to hell?

or
it's more complex than that?
 
I'm pretty sure Presbyterians do.

Being saved just means that you have accepted Jesus as your personal savior and that is the only way to heaven.

In Qoran Allah says believing in God is not enough to be admitted to heaven BUT we are all being tested in this life
 
so if someone does and they truly believe that but they are in a bad life situation and make all kinds of bad choices...they still go to heaven

as opposed to

someone who does not believe that but make all kinds of good choices...they are going to hell?


or
it's more complex than that?

Yup pretty much
 
hm

not exactly about trying to rise above one's self then is it...just embrace the "Jesus is my savior" and one is good to go

I find that kinda sad actually

I would say it would be more sad to belive that God doesnt love every one and only those with enough "God points" get to go to heaven.
 
hm

not exactly about trying to rise above one's self then is it...just embrace the "Jesus is my savior" and one is good to go

I find that kinda sad actually

And, it seems counter to what the Bible actually says too

1 Timothy 4:10 said:
For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.
 
We use the term "Mystery of faith". You either have it or you don't.

And if you don't, you don't. Being "Saved" means you chose to live your life with God as your guidance.
 
I would say it would be more sad to belive that God doesnt love every one and only those with enough "God points" get to go to heaven.
well yeah it always bothered me since I was a kid that the big loving all powerful sky daddy was less loving than my own father

kids easily cut through all that stuff in the most innocent of ways

And, it seems counter to what the Bible actually says too

I was also partial to the biblical quote in 1 Corinthians 7:14 that a spouse was saved by being married to a believer

that's a good deal right there
 
so if someone does and they truly believe that but they are in a bad life situation and make all kinds of bad choices...they still go to heaven

as opposed to

someone who does not believe that but make all kinds of good choices...they are going to hell?

or
it's more complex than that?
When one becomes "saves" one becomes an adopted child of GOD, and is being conformed into the image of the Messiah. The reality is that there is a transformation that begins to happen to the repentant individual that is only totally realized at the moment of the rapture or death. We live in a sinful environment and are housed in a sinful body. The "saved" individual is placing his trust in the perfection of the Messiah's birth, death, and resurrection. The total transformation to the "saved" individual is a process --- realization, repentance, faith, hope, trust, transformation.

It is the Messiah who takes the "works" of the saved and transforms them into something useful to the glory of GOD's. The person who believes in the quality of his own works is in for a terrible disappointment. To GOD ALL our own works are nothing but filthy menstrual rags. He isn't impressed with our accomplishments but in our repentance and faith in HIS provision for sin ---namely the Lord Jesus Messiah.
 
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This may sound like an odd question, but I am a Presbyterian. I don't believe in being "saved. So I am wondering if someone can explain that to me and the theology behind it.

You have to differentiate between "saved" as an adjective and "being saved" (as a verb).

Saved (adjective) - Someone who is bound for heaven after death.
"being Saved" (verb) - The act of repentance whereby someone recognizes their need for God's mercy and accepts the free gift of forgiveness offered to them by Christ.

Here is what it means in Presbyterian terms:
"Through Jesus' death and resurrection God triumphed over sin. Presbyterians believe it is through the action of God working in us that we become aware of our sinfulness and our need for God's mercy and forgiveness. Just as a parent is quick to welcome a wayward child who has repented of rebellion, God is willing to forgive our sins if we but confess them and ask for forgiveness in the name of Christ." Presbyterian Church (USA) Statement of Faith.

It can be a little confusing because if you grew up Presbyterian, then you actually did that at confirmation and no one called it "being saved" they just called it "confirmation". The difference is that Baptists and other evangelicals do things backwards from how you do it at the Presbyterian church. They don't believe you can be baptized into the church as an infant. Instead, they believe you have to "be saved" first by making a profession of faith (what you did at confirmation) and then you can be baptized afterwards. Since you were already baptized into the church as an infant, it doesn't make as much sense to call your confirmation "salvation"; they already assumed you were saved (adjective) due to your membership in the church even before you did confirmation.
 
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so if someone does and they truly believe that but they are in a bad life situation and make all kinds of bad choices...they still go to heaven

The way you describe it, yes. Going through a hard time and living badly? Sure. But if they were out there doing evil and just ignoring God, then most Christians would say such a person is not saved.


someone who does not believe that but make all kinds of good choices...they are going to hell?

There are three major views on this: exclusivism, inclusivism and pluralism (or universalism).

The exclusivist position says you are correct. Such a person will not go to heaven when they die. Knowledge of and acceptance of Jesus is necessary for salvation.

The inclusivist position essentially says that although Christ is the sole means of salvation that does not mean that knowledge of Christ is necessary for salvation. In other words, the person you described may, in fact, be a Christian despite the fact they don't even realize that it's been Christ leading them all along. Here's how Billy Graham put it:

I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.

Pluralist/Universalist positions tend to be non-Christian positions, so I won't really dive into those but essentially they say that all spiritual paths will lead you to the same place.


There is biblical support for the first two positions (exclusivist and inclusivist). Neither side has a slam dunk case although you will find people on both sides who proclaim that theirs is the one true way of understanding this. I don't think there is any biblical support for pluralist/universality positions.
 
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The way you describe it, yes. Going through a hard time and living badly? Sure. But if they were out there doing evil and just ignoring God, then most Christians would say such a person is not saved.




There are three major views on this: exclusivism, inclusivism and pluralism (or universalism).

The exclusivist position says you are correct. Such a person will not go to heaven when they die. Knowledge of and acceptance of Jesus is necessary for salvation.

The inclusivist position essentially says that although Christ is the sole means of salvation that does not mean that knowledge of Christ is necessary for salvation. In other words, the person you described may, in fact, be a Christian despite the fact they don't even realize that it's been Christ leading them all along. Here's how Billy Graham put it:

I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.

Pluralist/Universalist positions tend to be non-Christian positions, so I won't really dive into those but essentially they say that all spiritual paths will lead you to the same place.


There is biblical support for the first two positions (exclusivist and inclusivist). Neither side has a slam dunk case although you will find people on both sides who proclaim that theirs is the one true way of understanding this. I don't think there is any biblical support for pluralist/universality positions.

nicely laid out and an interesting read....thanks
 
When one becomes "saves" one becomes an adopted child of GOD, and is being conformed into the image of the Messiah. The reality is that there is a transformation that begins to happen to the repentant individual that is only totally realized at the moment of the rapture or death. We live in a sinful environment and are housed in a sinful body. The "saved" individual is placing his trust in the perfection of the Messiah's birth, death, and resurrection. The total transformation to the "saved" individual is a process --- realization, repentance, faith, hope, trust, transformation.

It is the Messiah who takes the "works" of the saved and transforms them into something useful to the glory of GOD's. The person who believes in the quality of his own works is in for a terrible disappointment. To GOD ALL our own works are nothing but filthy menstrual rags. He isn't impressed with our accomplishments but in our repentance and faith in HIS provision for sin ---namely the Lord Jesus Messiah.
that is an interesting perspective although I find it harsh while I find God to be loving

thanks for the explanation
 
so if someone does and they truly believe that but they are in a bad life situation and make all kinds of bad choices...they still go to heaven

as opposed to

someone who does not believe that but make all kinds of good choices...they are going to hell?

or
it's more complex than that?

Choices do not matter in a way.
It is the sin in other people's lives that do matter.

Christs blood washes away sin. For those that are truest repentent.
 
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I'm pretty sure Presbyterians do.

Being saved just means that you have accepted Jesus as your personal savior and that is the only way to heaven.

That's right. A friend of mine, a Southern Baptist, said that if Ted Bundy had accepted Jesus as his savior before the execution he'd be in heaven. Good works won't get you into heaven and bad deeds won't keep you out.
 
That's right. A friend of mine, a Southern Baptist, said that if Ted Bundy had accepted Jesus as his savior before the execution he'd be in heaven. Good works won't get you into heaven and bad deeds won't keep you out.

Sure, but that's not the end of the story. Most Christians believe that how you live your life now will determine how you live the next life. There is strong biblical evidence for this position, samples of which I will provide below. Yes, Ted Bundy could have (and might have) repented and barely gotten into heaven. But he will arrive a pauper, having stored up no treasure nor having earned any rewards. Those who have been doing good works have been storing up treasures in heaven.

See for example:
Matthew 6:20: But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
2 Corinthians 5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.
Matthew 16:27: For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
 
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I'm pretty sure Presbyterians do.

Being saved just means that you have accepted Jesus as your personal savior and that is the only way to heaven.

We do. But it isn't the same. It isn't our "decision." We are saved by the grace of God. That is why we are baptized as babies.


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It's just another term for accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. :)

Presbyterians don't believe in salvation?

We do. But we don't do it the same way. If you were to ask a Presbyterian when we were saved...our response would be about 2000 years ago when Jesus died on the cross :)



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We do. But we don't do it the same way. If you were to ask a Presbyterian when we were saved...our response would be about 2000 years ago when Jesus died on the cross :)



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I would say that is most of the mainline churches too according to the Nicene Creed
 
We do. But it isn't the same. It isn't our "decision." We are saved by the grace of God. That is why we are baptized as babies.
It's just a matter of how we talk about it. Evangelical and Presbyterian views on salvation are nearly identical. Most evangelicals are Reformed, just like Presbyterians. This means that they both believe in: predestination, unconditional election, limited atonement and everything else. If you look at the statements of faith of evangelical or baptist churches and Presbyterian churches, you really won't find any disagreement on the subject of salvation. In fact, both the statement of faith of the PC(USA) on this topic, which I provided in an earlier post, and the statement of faith of the PCA talk about how salvation requires repentance. The only difference comes down to how we talk about that belief. Presbyterians tend to stress God's call to salvation while evangelicals tend to stress our response to salvation, but both believe the exact same thing despite putting an emphasis on one thing versus the other.

But you are right in that baptism is the main reason that you don't talk about the decision to follow Christ as "being saved". You made that decision during your confirmation, which took place a dozen or more years after your baptism. Everyone assumed you were already saved by the time you did your confirmation, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to call your profession of faith at confirmation "being saved".

Evangelicals don't tend to think of anyone who hasn't made a profession of faith as being saved yet. So, to them, that decision is what constitutes "being saved". That can make the decision to follow Christ a far more meaningful decision, because it is one you were expected to make on your own and weren't just grandfathered into. But it does pose major challenges for counseling the bereaved parents of a dead infant.
 
We do. But it isn't the same. It isn't our "decision." We are saved by the grace of God. That is why we are baptized as babies.


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Yet baptism doesn't save you. Baptism is an outward showing of what you have done on the inside.
 
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