• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Do you agree that Christianity, Judaism and Islam share the same God?

Do you agree that Christianity, Judaism and Islam share the same god?

  • Total voters
    84
DifferentDrummr said:
And who's to say that your description is somehow more valid than theirs?

This attitude is what brought about the Crusades and the Inquisition.
Click to expand...

That's not the point. We are discussing whether or not it's the same God. Not whether said God is valid or not.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Jewish is not a nationality. An ethnic Jew who believes Jesus was the Messiah is a Christian. A religious Jew can not believe so, since in Judaism, like Islam, Jesus was not the Messiah.
Click to expand...

Wrong, as per usual. Sometimes your ignorance it's truly astonishing. :shock:
 
Manc Skipper said:
Two separate things. A messianic Jesus is incompatible with Jewish theology. They do not believe he met their messianic criteria or that he is God or God's son. You can be ethnically Jewish and believe in Jesus, but you can't be theologically so. Why are you so desparate to avoid the obvious that you deny like Peter?
Click to expand...

Sometimes I'm actually embarrassed for you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism
 
countryboy said:
Judaism is a religion, Jewish is an ethnicity.
Click to expand...

Something original? Even something I haven't already said in this thread would be a change.

This thread is about comparative religion, not ethnicity, you're a day late and a dollar short.
 
Last edited:
Manc Skipper said:
Something original? Even something I haven't already said in this thread would be a change.

This thread is about comparative religion, not ethnicity, you're a day late and a dollar short.
Click to expand...

Manc Skipper said:
Jewish is not a nationality. An ethnic Jew who believes Jesus was the Messiah is a Christian. A religious Jew can not believe so, since in Judaism, like Islam, Jesus was not the Messiah.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you either don't have a clue what you're talking about (likely), or, are arguing for the sake of it.
 
countryboy said:
Sometimes I'm actually embarrassed for you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism
Click to expand...

Messianic Judaism can call themselves Jews as much as they want. However, their theology is strictly CHristian. It's not Judaism. It's flattering for all these Gentiles to pretend they are jews, but they still are Christian. The vast majority of the so called Messianic Jews do not even have Jewish heritage. The Messianic Jewish movement grew out of the desire of the evangelistic Christians to try to prostylse to the Jews. They, however, are not of the Jewish faith, no matter how much they claim to be.
 
RogueWarrior said:
Simple yes / no poll.
But please explain your answer.
Click to expand...

There's two major ways one could understand this question:

1. Is the god of the three major monotheistic religions qualitatively identical? The answer, of course, is no. Belief in the trinity alone already disqualifies the Christian God from being qualitatively identical to the Muslim and Jewish versions.
2. Is the god of the three major religions numerically identical? I believe the answer to this is yes. All three religions are attempting to worship the same being; the creator God, maker of heaven and Earth, who made a covenant with Abraham. Thus it is clear that regardless of the differences in understanding about that being, they are referring to the same being. The God worshipped by all three faiths is therefore numerically identical. However, if you're an atheist and don't believe such a being even exists, this question becomes nonsensical. To an atheist there is no god, so how could you possibly settle whether a make believe being is numerically identical to other make believe beings?

This isn't a very good question then. The answer to question 1 is obvious to everyone and question 2 only makes sense to those who believe in a version of that God to begin with. To an atheist question 2 reads the same as: "Is the Kirby Silver Surfer the real Silver Surfer or is the Moebius Silver Surfer the real Silver Surfer?" (bonus points to whoever knows the movie I borrowed this illustration from).
 
Last edited:
Yes.
Within the mythology the story is told as, "God" revealed himself to a "prophet" who was name "Abraham".
 
No way. Not even remotely possible are Islam's god the same as Judaism and Christianity.

The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. The Jews are called God's chosen people, but they are not Allah’s chosen. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends (Sura.5:51 disdains the Jews). Mohammed said, “The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.” (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130). So how could Israel inherit the land or any of God’s promises from Allah, if Allah is their God? Clearly he is not the same God of the Bible.

The Koran denies point blank that Jesus was the Son of God (Sura 112:2-3 ). It also denies His atoning sacrifice by claiming that he never died (Sura 4:157 ). A substitute died for Him on the Cross. Jesus was supposedly translated to Heaven, like Enoch, where He will remain until He returns to kill all pigs, destroy all crosses, and convert the world to Islam. Jesus will marry, reign for 40 years and then die and be buried next to Muhammad in Medina. Jesus is characterized in the Koran as nothing more than “an apostle of Allah” (Sura 4:171 ). Of course, that’s absurd and totally unbiblical.

More in the link below.

https://righterreport.com/2011/08/21/do-muslims-and-christians-worship-the-same-god/
 
Logicman said:
No way. Not even remotely possible are Islam's god the same as Judaism and Christianity.

The God in the Bible is called the God of the Jews, an impossibility with Allah. The Jews are called God's chosen people, but they are not Allah’s chosen. Allah commands the Muslim to not take the Jews or Christians as friends (Sura.5:51 disdains the Jews). Mohammed said, “The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them.” (Mishkat Al Masabih Sh.M. Ashraf pp.147, 721, 810-11, 1130). So how could Israel inherit the land or any of God’s promises from Allah, if Allah is their God? Clearly he is not the same God of the Bible.

The Koran denies point blank that Jesus was the Son of God (Sura 112:2-3 ). It also denies His atoning sacrifice by claiming that he never died (Sura 4:157 ). A substitute died for Him on the Cross. Jesus was supposedly translated to Heaven, like Enoch, where He will remain until He returns to kill all pigs, destroy all crosses, and convert the world to Islam. Jesus will marry, reign for 40 years and then die and be buried next to Muhammad in Medina. Jesus is characterized in the Koran as nothing more than “an apostle of Allah” (Sura 4:171 ). Of course, that’s absurd and totally unbiblical.

More in the link below.

https://righterreport.com/2011/08/21/do-muslims-and-christians-worship-the-same-god/
Click to expand...


Your reasoning is flawed and Pope Francis says you wrong.
Religions diverge all the time from some common point. How many version of christianity are there? judaism? islam?

Just because christians have a different interpretation of jesus' role in history versus muslims doesn't mean that they can't have a common starting point. It is just that one group believed the supernatural jesus stories and one didn't. For one he is the son of himself and the other just a prophet.

https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2015/12/17/do-muslims-and-christians-worship-the-same-god/

...So the fact that Christians may call God “Yahweh” and Muslims call God “Allah” makes no difference if both “Gods” have identical properties. In fact, what is known as classical theism was embraced by the greatest thinkers of the Abrahamic religions: St. Thomas Aquinas (Christian), Moses Maimonides (Jewish), and Avicenna (Muslim). Because, according to the classical theist, there can only in principle be one God, Christians, Jews, and Muslims who embrace classical theism must be worshipping the same God. It simply cannot be otherwise.

But doesn’t Christianity affirm that God is a Trinity while Muslims deny it? Wouldn’t this mean that they indeed worship different “Gods”? Not necessarily. Consider this example. Imagine that Fred believes that the evidence is convincing that Thomas Jefferson (TJ) sired several children with his slave Sally Hemings (SH), and thus Fred believes that TJ has the property of “being a father to several of SHs children.” On the other hand, suppose Bob does not find the evidence convincing and thus believes that TJ does not have the property of “being a father to several of SHs children.”

Would it follow from this that Fred and Bob do not believe that the Third President of the United States was the same man? Of course not. In the same way, Abraham and Moses did not believe that God is a Trinity, but St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas, and Billy Graham do. Does that mean that Augustine, Aquinas, and Graham do not worship the same God as Abraham and Moses? Again, of course not. The fact that one may have incomplete knowledge or hold a false belief about another person – whether human or divine – does not mean that someone who has better or truer knowledge about that person is not thinking about the same person.
Click to expand...
 
RogueWarrior said:
Your reasoning is flawed and Pope Francis says you wrong.
Click to expand...

No way, and the Pope is a Biblically-challenged dolt if he thinks that.

RogueWarrior said:
Religions diverge all the time from some common point. How many version of christianity are there? judaism? islam?
Click to expand...

Islam wasn't diverged from Christianity, so get a better argument for that.

RogueWarrior said:
Just because christians have a different interpretation of jesus' role in history versus muslims doesn't mean that they can't have a common starting point. It is just that one group believed the supernatural jesus stories and one didn't. For one he is the son of himself and the other just a prophet.
Click to expand...

You can theorize a whole lot of nonsense, but that doesn't make it true.

Jesus is superior to Muhammad even in the Koran.

https://righterreport.com/2016/06/13/jesus-superior-to-muhammad-in-the-koran/
 
Absolutely not. Anyone who teaches any way to God other than Jesus Christ is an anti-Christ and a false teacher. That includes those who teaches confession thorough an intermediary such as a priest.

John 14:6King James Version (KJV)

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Click to expand...
 
Christianity wins by a foreskin.
 
Actually, Paul explained this in his letter to the Roman Christians. Jews are Christians and Christians are Jews......all branches of the same tree. The Muslims didn't exist yet and so are not addressed, but one can assume they will have the same arrangement as new branches that came along later.

11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!

13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.

17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
 
Christianity and Judaism believe in the same Creator God.

Where they diverge is the Christian belief that Jesus of Nazareth was the Christ, the Messiah and Redeemer, which most of Judaism does not (with certain exceptions).


Islam is a different critter entirely. Although they claim otherwise, purporting that Islam is the final and perfect revelation/covenant that "replaces" Christianity and Judaism, it does not take a great deal of comparative study to see that most of what "Allah" supposedly commands is totally contradictory to Judaism and Christianity, in particular the hostility of Islam towards the other two.


I have read the Bible, and most of the Quran. It is clear to me they are NOT talking about the same deity. Not even close.
 
Logicman said:
No way, and the Pope is a Biblically-challenged dolt if he thinks that.



Islam wasn't diverged from Christianity, so get a better argument for that.



You can theorize a whole lot of nonsense, but that doesn't make it true.

Jesus is superior to Muhammad even in the Koran.

https://righterreport.com/2016/06/13/jesus-superior-to-muhammad-in-the-koran/
Click to expand...

And, in the Jewish religion, Jesus, as described in the Gospels, isn't even mentioned. The so called 'prophecies' are out of context quotes, shoe horned into place, mistranslated, or vague. It is dishonest to say any are about Jesus.
 
RogueWarrior said:
Just because christians have a different interpretation of jesus' role in history versus muslims doesn't mean that they can't have a common starting point.
Click to expand...

No, but history tells us they do not have a common starting point. Islam begins in Mecca and Medina some 6 centuries after Christianity. It doesn't branch off from any Christian sects. It's starting point is Mecca and Medina 610CE whereas Christianity's starting point is Jerusalem 50AD. To put that in terms more meaningful to us think about what the world looked like in 1456, that's in the middle of the Hundred Years War in Europe, while the Mongols still ruled Russia but before the Great Wall of China is built, before even the Sengoku Jidai in Japan or the discovery of the New World by the Portugese and Spanish. Now think of all the history between then and now. That's the amount of time that transpired between the creation of Christianity and the creation of Islam. The two do not share a common starting point.


RogueWarrior said:
It is just that one group believed the supernatural jesus stories and one didn't. For one he is the son of himself and the other just a prophet.
Click to expand...

What are you talking about? Islam believes in Jesus' virgin birth and miracles; in fact, they attribute to him miracles that Christians do not (such as creating life by fashioning birds of clay then breathing life into them).
 
Last edited:
RAMOSS said:
And, in the Jewish religion, Jesus, as described in the Gospels, isn't even mentioned. The so called 'prophecies' are out of context quotes, shoe horned into place, mistranslated, or vague. It is dishonest to say any are about Jesus.
Click to expand...

Nonsense. You've been busted time and again for those horse manure claims.
 
Originally Posted by RAMOSS
And, in the Jewish religion, Jesus, as described in the Gospels, isn't even mentioned. The so called 'prophecies' are out of context quotes, shoe horned into place, mistranslated, or vague. It is dishonest to say any are about Jesus.
Click to expand...


Logicman said:
Nonsense. You've been busted time and again for those horse manure claims.
Click to expand...

No, RAMOSS is quite correct.

Modern Bible scholars mostly agree (the best ones, anyway).

Some of the "Gospel" mythology about Paul's "Christ" was clearly crafted to fit with chosen passages from the old stories called the "Old Testament."

That "Christ" was an invention of Paul, a modified version of various Pagan religions.
 
Goshin said:
It is clear to me they are NOT talking about the same deity. Not even close.
Click to expand...

Qualitatively, that's true. But neither are Jews and Christians talking about the same God if we are looking at it qualitatively. Christians talk about a triune God who took on human form, whereas the Jewish conception of G-d is unitary and would never allow for that.

But what about numerically? You believe there is a God. Let's refer to him as a "being" for simplicity, recognizing that this is an inadequate term to fully express God's nature. I assume you also believe that he is the one true God, the creator God, maker of heaven and Earth, who made a covenant with Abraham. Are Christians, Muslims, and Jews all attempting to worship that being? Whether they are right or wrong about what that being wants or what it is like, are they attempting to worship the creator God, the maker of heaven and Earth, the one true God who made a covenant with Abraham? If so, the God of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity is numerically identical.

BTW, Christians who speak Arabic also call God Allah. Allah just means God in Arabic. So, I don't get the point of putting scare quotes around that word or using it as a way to differentiate between Muslim and Christian conceptions of God. Arabic Christians use the word Allah in reference to God. In fact, pick up an Arabic bible and you will find the bible itself using the word Allah.
 
Last edited:
RogueWarrior said:
this fails as an answer:failpail:
Click to expand...

The God of Christianity and Judaism is Yahweh (the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob). The entire history of Christianity and Judaism is exactly the same until the time of Jesus' birth, at which time the Jews maintained that Jesus was not the promised Messiah and the Christians believed that he was. These early Christians were the ancestors of what became the Catholic Church. The God for both religions is still Yahweh, from whom both Jews and Christians received the ten commandments and the rest of the scriptures.

Did you know that Muslims agree with Christians that Jesus will come again to return the world to righteousness? The Christian and Muslim beliefs regarding the end of times are incredibly similar. Jesus will return again. The difference between the two is that for Muslims, Jesus is a prophet and with Christians, Jesus is the son of God.

In all three religions, the history of Adam and Eve, through Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, the fleeing of the Jews from Egypt, The Great Flood- all of these things are historically taught in all three religions. I think that this is compelling evidence that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Joseph is the same god celebrated by Jews, Christians, and Muslims today.
 
Logicman said:
Nonsense. You've been busted time and again for those horse manure claims.
Click to expand...

Well, that is the claim of some evangalistic CHritians.. however, they ignore and twist the evidence.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom