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christianese

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Interestingly the turn the other cheek postulate defines a game that does not work well for the adherents to the rule, where others follow an other plan.

I differ..............using violence only begets more violence...........where as turning the other cheek works............maybe not right away..............but has many examples in history of its being successful...............as in India's seeking independence from British rule led by Gandhi........... and here at home of the MLK led non-violence the Civil Right movement in the60's.......to name some examples which come to mind
 
at another place the bible says " blessed are you when people persecute you" also " when they persecute you in one place flee to another". I am not asking about governments going to war but about when an individual should or should not resort to violence.[/QUOTE.........the same holds true in any relationship ............no matter how big or small.........
 
I differ..............using violence only begets more violence...........where as turning the other cheek works............maybe not right away..............but has many examples in history of its being successful...............as in India's seeking independence from British rule led by Gandhi........... and here at home of the MLK led non-violence the Civil Right movement in the60's.......to name some examples which come to mind

Sure non violent activity can work under certain circumstances. When you are dealing with people that are willing to take your losses, however, you are dead and your stuff belongs to them.

And maybe your grandchildren will revolt against their dominance.
 
Sure non violent activity can work under certain circumstances. When you are dealing with people that are willing to take your losses, however, you are dead and your stuff belongs to them.

And maybe your grandchildren will revolt against their dominance.


........however it remains the Christian answer in quelling violence ............

have you ever heard of the concept ..........."to be a fool for Christ".........and what it means.............and sort of lends some help to understand the message of Christ..........
 
I did read the article. and the article expresses exactly what i am asking. But does a person allow someone to attack their spouse or children and not act?

the article addresses that but you evidently didn't read it.
 
you evidently didn't read the article please go read the article and then get back to me.
it is pretty clear on what it says.

do you think committing a crime could ever be justified , if done to protect ones family?
 
........however it remains the Christian answer in quelling violence ............

have you ever heard of the concept ..........."to be a fool for Christ".........and what it means.............and sort of lends some help to understand the message of Christ..........

Always forgive your enemies. Nothing annoys them so much. ;)
 
Always forgive your enemies. Nothing annoys them so much. ;)

Does forgiving someone mean that someone should not act. or could a person forgive someone or someones and still hit them in the head with a baseball bat?
 
Turn the other cheek was about being smacked in the face.


In that day and time this was not a serious attack... it was an insult, or the kind of punishment a superior dished out to a subordinate. It was an insult and a challenge.



A real attack would have been more like a spear through the guts.



I've never seen any scripture that says "stand still while someone rams a spear through your guts. Do nothing while they rape your family and steal what you need to live."


There are many indicators that violence is permissible under various circumstances, such as self-defense or just war.

BINGO!!! When Jesus sent out the Discples, He told them to arm themselves. They showed that they had two swords and He said that was enough. 11 men, plus others and two swords. Defense, but not to the point of excess. As Christians, our first response should always be peace and only resort to violence when there is no other alternative.
 
Does forgiving someone mean that someone should not act. or could a person forgive someone or someones and still hit them in the head with a baseball bat?

Might as well forgive him. No need to hate the guy you down with the baseball bat.
 
Might as well forgive him. No need to hate the guy you down with the baseball bat.

agreed! Someone can bash in a persons face with a bat and still love that person. in fact that may be the greatest act of love you could give at the moment.
 
BINGO!!! When Jesus sent out the Discples, He told them to arm themselves. They showed that they had two swords and He said that was enough. 11 men, plus others and two swords. Defense, but not to the point of excess. As Christians, our first response should always be peace and only resort to violence when there is no other alternative.

That is a strange part of the story. then later peter cuts off that dudes ear, and Jesus slaps it back on. and when the enemigos come to arrest him he asks" am i leading a rebellion"?its as though the first thought was defense then 2nd to give up.
 
where are these "indicators" ? I am thinking along the lines of self defense. not a war




Off the top of my head (too busy to go back and research it all again just the now)...

Start with Luke 22, "sell you garment and buy a sword." The gospel was not spread by the sword... the sword was for self-defense against common threats, when the disciples went out again without Jesus physically present.

In the OT, a thief who was struck dead in the act accrued no guilt to the killer, since it was impossible to know in the heat of the moment whether he was merely thieving or a mortal threat. I don't recall chapter and verse on that one but you can look it up.


In fact you can look up lots of stuff. Here...

https://www.blueletterbible.org/
 
Does forgiving someone mean that someone should not act. or could a person forgive someone or someones and still hit them in the head with a baseball bat?




Bud, I've got the BTDT shirt for that question.


My niece and her kids live with me and my son now, for protection from her abusive, druggie Ex. He doesn't come around here. He knows I'd kill him, and death is the only thing he fears. Her only escape from him was to come live with me. She'd tried getting away from him before, and he followed her everywhere... but here. Here, her and her two little children have lived in peace for over a year, and prospered, and done well.


Why? Because her Ex knows me and knows I wouldn't hesitate to blow his head off.


Not because I hate him. I don't. Got nothing to do with it.


Back in the day, when he was trying to get clean and figure out how to be a man, a husband, and a father, I tried to mentor him a bit. I got to know him. He came from a very bad, very messed up family. He literally did not know HOW to be a good man. I tried to show him. I felt a lot of empathy for him... given what he'd come from, it was a wonder he wasn't WORSE.

We were friends, sort of, for a while.

The call of the drugs was too strong for him, though. He's a weak man, and knows little but drugs, theft, fraud and dependency, and how to abuse those weaker than himself.

He crossed a line (several really) and got served notice: Mama and the babies were coming to stay with Uncle G, and he was barred on risk of imminent death.


Now see, I don't WANT to kill this guy. I know him well. I don't hate him, far from it: I feel great pity for him and great sorrow that he failed to turn his life around. I am great-uncle to his two children. This is not some stranger... this is practically family.


That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I would indeed kill him if necessary, and he knows it. It would be an act, not of hate or vengeance, but of protection of the innocent.



That's the difference.
 
Off the top of my head (too busy to go back and research it all again just the now)...

Start with Luke 22, "sell you garment and buy a sword." The gospel was not spread by the sword... the sword was for self-defense against common threats, when the disciples went out again without Jesus physically present.

In the OT, a thief who was struck dead in the act accrued no guilt to the killer, since it was impossible to know in the heat of the moment whether he was merely thieving or a mortal threat. I don't recall chapter and verse on that one but you can look it up.


In fact you can look up lots of stuff. Here...

https://www.blueletterbible.org/

And yet only two swords were sufficient for twelve of them, and he told Peter off for using one on a Roman's ear.... Cherrypicking the bible to suit yourself is a way of life
 
And yet only two swords were sufficient for twelve of them, and he told Peter off for using one on a Roman's ear.... Cherrypicking the bible to suit yourself is a way of life


No sir. Your drive-by insults notwithstanding, it isn't cherry-picking.


The fundamental principle of hermeneutics is that you interpret scripture with more scripture, preferably either in the same context or related by subject or speaker.


I don't have time to write a doctoral thesis on the subject tonight, so sorry. However my position is one I came to after years of study and comparison of related scriptural references which, taken holistically, drew me to the inevitable conclusion that Christianity is peaceful but not pacifistic.


Considering that you don't appear to follow or respect Christianity anyway, I'll stand by my own counsel on the matter.
 
Considering that you don't appear to follow or respect Christianity anyway, I'll stand by my own counsel on the matter.

Yet, he continually defends the religion that WAS spread by the sword.

How odd.
 
That is a strange part of the story. then later peter cuts off that dudes ear, and Jesus slaps it back on. and when the enemigos come to arrest him he asks" am i leading a rebellion"?its as though the first thought was defense then 2nd to give up.

Which shows the heart of the matter. Peter's response was wrong and Jesus addressed it with both compassion and correction. It doesn't mean that all violence is wrong, just that Peter took the wrong course in that case. He should have sought a peaceful resolution first and only resorted to violence when there was no other choice.
 
Which shows the heart of the matter. Peter's response was wrong and Jesus addressed it with both compassion and correction. It doesn't mean that all violence is wrong, just that Peter took the wrong course in that case. He should have sought a peaceful resolution first and only resorted to violence when there was no other choice.

Be watching.
 
Bud, I've got the BTDT shirt for that question.


My niece and her kids live with me and my son now, for protection from her abusive, druggie Ex. He doesn't come around here. He knows I'd kill him, and death is the only thing he fears. Her only escape from him was to come live with me. She'd tried getting away from him before, and he followed her everywhere... but here. Here, her and her two little children have lived in peace for over a year, and prospered, and done well.


Why? Because her Ex knows me and knows I wouldn't hesitate to blow his head off.


Not because I hate him. I don't. Got nothing to do with it.


Back in the day, when he was trying to get clean and figure out how to be a man, a husband, and a father, I tried to mentor him a bit. I got to know him. He came from a very bad, very messed up family. He literally did not know HOW to be a good man. I tried to show him. I felt a lot of empathy for him... given what he'd come from, it was a wonder he wasn't WORSE.

We were friends, sort of, for a while.

The call of the drugs was too strong for him, though. He's a weak man, and knows little but drugs, theft, fraud and dependency, and how to abuse those weaker than himself.

He crossed a line (several really) and got served notice: Mama and the babies were coming to stay with Uncle G, and he was barred on risk of imminent death.


Now see, I don't WANT to kill this guy. I know him well. I don't hate him, far from it: I feel great pity for him and great sorrow that he failed to turn his life around. I am great-uncle to his two children. This is not some stranger... this is practically family.


That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I would indeed kill him if necessary, and he knows it. It would be an act, not of hate or vengeance, but of protection of the innocent.



That's the difference.

In my situation , there is organized attacks against certain people. and since the authorities and law enforcement will do nothing . I think I have no choice but to act against evil, against stupidity. I welcome the opportunity to kill them. my concern is in harming innocent people, as i do not have the ability to investigate the matter.
 
In the bible people are told to turn the other cheek, and in another place it says do good to them that hate you. At what point or what are the circumstances where a person should resort to violence? If that person wanted to utilize the scriptures.

Here you go
 
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