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Can God change his mind?

nota bene said:
As for the OP's question, my assumption is that God can do anything He pleases.
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If God is perfect, omniscient, and omnipresent throughout all time and space, wouldn't he be incapable of learning and thus changing his mind? Thus, if he has changed his mind, wouldn't it be an indication of God's limitations?
 
 
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Riveroaks said:
We have one instance of God (YHVH) changing his mind when He wanted to exterminate all the Hebrews and start over with Moses.

Moses talked him out of it.

They came to a compromise that after 40 years in the deserts, and the older generation from Egypt was expired, the newer generation of children would then invade and take over Canaan lands.

Of course that did not sit will with the Philistines who are the ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
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God always knew the outcome of the discussion and chose to present it to Moses as He did.
 
ecofarm said:
According to the Bible, God doesn't change his mind.


Numbers 23:19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?
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“The LORD was grieved that He had made man on the earth, and His heart was filled with pain”

“When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, He had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction He had threatened.”

“Then the LORD relented and did not bring on His people the disaster He had threatened.”
 
Amadeus said:
“The LORD was grieved that He had made man on the earth, and His heart was filled with pain”
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It was an unfortunate thing to need to do, for it resulted from a rebellion in heaven.

“When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, He had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction He had threatened.”
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He always knew the result. This is simply explaining that result.

“Then the LORD relented and did not bring on His people the disaster He had threatened.”
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Again, always would be. It's just explaining.
 
Andalublue said:
And yet, as has been pointed out already, the Bible also includes several accounts of where God did exactly that.
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Indeed. The fact that the OT God could get angry is an indication of reaction to stimuli, which requires a lack of fore-knowledge.
 
Andalublue said:
And yet, as has been pointed out already, the Bible also includes several accounts of where God did exactly that.
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An explanation does not mean there were ever doubts about what would happen.
 
ecofarm said:
It was an unfortunate thing to need to do, for it resulted from a rebellion in heaven.

He always knew the result. This is simply explaining that result.

Again, always would be. It's just explaining.
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Again, any emotion (e.g. grief, pain, anger) requires a linear-time reaction.
 
Amadeus said:
Indeed. The fact that the OT God could get angry is an indication of reaction to stimuli, which requires a lack of fore-knowledge.
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No, the weakness of man was foreknown in each instance. Explaining that it made God angry does not mean he was surprised by events.
 
Amadeus said:
Which is a proxy for his command. You can't escape the fact that God wanted disobedient children to be stoned.
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Exactly. And God only condoned it being done by the state, just as the New Testament only condones capital punishment if done by the state.
 
Amadeus said:
Again, any emotion (e.g. grief, pain, anger) requires a linear-time reaction.
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False. God's feelings about things does not mean He was surprised by anything. We can know things in advance and yet have emotions regarding them. That God is displeased by man's weakness does not mean it surprised him.
 
ecofarm said:
No, the weakness of man was foreknown in each instance. Explaining that it made God angry does not mean he was surprised by events.
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Unfortunately it does. God cannot react in anger to something he knew was going to happen from the onset of creation.

re·ac·tion
rēˈakSH(ə)n/
noun
an action performed or a feeling experienced in response to a situation or event.
"Carrie's immediate reaction was one of relief"
synonyms: response, answer, reply, rejoinder, retort, riposte; informalcomeback
"his reaction had bewildered her"
a person's ability to respond physically and mentally to external stimuli.
"a skilled driver with quick reactions"
an adverse physiological response to a substance that has been breathed in, ingested, or touched.
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You can say that God is so far beyond comprehension that such definitions do not apply to him, but if this is the case then there is no point in worshiping him. His will cannot be understood, even by studying his own scripture.
 
Paleocon said:
Exactly. And God only condoned it being done by the state, just as the New Testament only condones capital punishment if done by the state.
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So the blame is on the state and not God for commanding it? How does that work?
 
calamity said:
What exactly does "proud anti-Semite" in your tag mean? I certainly hope that there is a double-meaning there that went over my head.
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It means that I don't adhere to a Judeo-Manichean view of history in which the Jews have been innocent victims oppressed everywhere they go for no reason, and that us goyim (Christians in particular) must perpetually grovel at their feet in order to make amends for having ever offended them. Which makes me an anti-Semite by contemporary standards.
 
Amadeus said:
Unfortunately it does. God cannot react in anger to something he knew was going to happen from the onset of creation.
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Of course he can. It's just describing God's reaction/judgement to/of things. It would be silly to say "and He was angry about this when He knew about it before time was created". It only makes sense to describe his emotion/judgement with the description of the event.

You can say that God is so far beyond comprehension that such definitions do not apply to him, but if this is the case then there is no point in worshiping him. His will cannot be understood, even by studying his own scripture.
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I knew the Dolphins would lose and was unhappy about it even before it happened. God knew of man's weakness, every faltering, and was unhappy/disapproving about it. That doesn't mean he was surprised by it.
 
ecofarm said:
False. God's feelings about things does not mean He was surprised by anything. We can know things in advance and yet have emotions regarding them. That God is displeased by man's weakness does not mean it surprised him.
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God having feelings requires that he is obeying rules or a source of stimuli beyond his control. Feelings are always a response, and there is no way around this.
 
Amadeus said:
So the blame is on the state and not God for commanding it? How does that work?
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It is not a matter of blame, since, as with all divine commands, it was right.

Do you have any other supposed contradictions that you need help understanding?
 
Riveroaks said:
We have one instance of God (YHVH) changing his mind when He wanted to exterminate all the Hebrews and start over with Moses.

Moses talked him out of it.

They came to a compromise that after 40 years in the deserts, and the older generation from Egypt was expired, the newer generation of children would then invade and take over Canaan lands.

Of course that did not sit will with the Philistines who are the ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
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wow you really have no idea do you?

that punishment was for them worshipping another god. their punishment that until those generations that worshiped the golden idol would
wander the desert for 40 years.
 
Amadeus said:
God having feelings requires that he is obeying rules or a source of stimuli beyond his control.
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Free will. Nonetheless, God knew the result of that free will even before time was created.

Feelings are always a response, and there is no way around this.
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His response was and is eternal, not bound by time. It only makes sense to describe his feelings/judgement with the events. How would it make sense to describe his judgement before describing the events?
 
ecofarm said:
Free will. Nonetheless, God knew the result of that free will even before time was created.



His response was and is eternal, not bound by time. It only makes sense to describe his feelings/judgement with the events. How would it make sense to describe his judgement before describing the events?


His feelings are judgements.
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A response/reaction cannot be eternal. I would say this is a fundamental law that applies to everything in the Universe. What you are talking about is paradoxical.
 
Amadeus said:
A response/reaction cannot be eternal. I would say this is a fundamental law that applies to everything in the Universe. What you are talking about is paradoxical.
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Amadeus, do you know why God created free will? Why he created man? So that man could re-affirm His sovereignty even in the absence of His direct presence thus settling the Heavenly Conflict and rising above even the angels in faith.

And God always knew the result. It wouldn't make sense to describe his judgement of an event before the event takes place. So, his judgement is described with each event despite nothing being a surprise.

God's knowledge is not linear. He has always known everything.
 
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Amadeus said:
If God is perfect, omniscient, and omnipresent throughout all time and space, wouldn't he be incapable of learning and thus changing his mind? Thus, if he has changed his mind, wouldn't it be an indication of God's limitations?
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You are able to conceptualize God only through the prism of your own limited human understanding. As are we all. I'm with Alexander Pope: "Presume not God to scan/The proper study of mankind is man."
 
calamity said:
What exactly does "proud anti-Semite" in your tag mean? I certainly hope that there is a double-meaning there that went over my head.
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See below? Told you so.

Paleocon said:
It means that I don't adhere to a Judeo-Manichean view of history in which the Jews have been innocent victims oppressed everywhere they go for no reason, and that us goyim (Christians in particular) must perpetually grovel at their feet in order to make amends for having ever offended them. Which makes me an anti-Semite by contemporary standards.
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I think it makes you anti-semitic by any standards, contemporary or historical.
 
Andalublue said:
See below? Told you so.

I think it makes you anti-semitic by any standards, contemporary or historical.
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Just to note, that's obviously nothing to do with Christianity.
 
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