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A False Gospel in Christianity

Guy Incognito said:
This is the problem with sola scriptura; with just the scripture alone, who is to say what is false? The "Prosperity Gospel" and so forth are the natural outcome when you remove the teaching authority of the Holy Church from the equation.
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I am also curious. Where does it mention 'Sola Scriptura' in the Bible, or any of the Sola's for that matter?
 
RAMOSS said:
I am also curious. Where does it mention 'Sola Scriptura' in the Bible, or any of the Sola's for that matter?
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Well, it doesn't. And for good reason. The Bible is a compilation of lots of disparate texts, they are the inspired word of God but they aren't meant to constitute His exhaustive teaching. The Bible is really just half the story, the other half is the living Church, which is every bit as important and authoritative as the Bible.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Well, it doesn't. And for good reason. The Bible is a compilation of lots of disparate texts, they are the inspired word of God but they aren't meant to constitute His exhaustive teaching. The Bible is really just half the story, the other half is the living Church, which is every bit as important and authoritative as the Bible.
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So, the concept of 'by scripture alone' is not in scripture. There seems to be a contradiction there.
 
ludin said:
Sorry I was watching Last Week with John Oliver and he mentioned something
that today just makes my blood boil.

That is the preaching of prosperity Gospel.

Sow a seed and God will reward you. Sow a seed and you will be healed.
Give 1000 and God will return 10k.

this load of bull is so damaging to Christian beliefs it isn't funny.

Does God bless people? yes
Does He bless people for doing good things and bad? yes

Does he bless you for not using your head and giving money to these thieves? no he doesn't.

People God has given you scripture to weed out these types of false teachers. I suggest you do so.
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I could not agree more. Once when I was in Millington, TN for training, I went to a local church.

In the hall they had this huge plague called Gideon's Army.

It had a ranking structure on it that was directly tied to how much money you gave. I think a general rank was someone who gave $10,000.

It reminded me of the quote in the Bible about keeping your tithes secret and not telling the left hand what the right hand was doing.

Yet here was this big plaque with all these names on it awarding them a certain rank IAW their tithe. I thought it a bit profane, like the OP is saying.

Does anyone remember the air conditioned dog house Tammy Fae bought with her money she got from her contributors?

"You will know them by their WORKS"
 
I remember Tammy Faye and, I'm ashamed to admit, used to make fun of her. So did "SNL."

She came from a very repressive background, which was why she loved her makeup so much, and she certainly lost her way for a time. But I believe she found it again and that she was fundamentally a good person who was sincere in her faith and lived it bravely throughout her suffering until she died.
 
RAMOSS said:
That's the right reason to give. However, do you know how the money that is being donated is being spent? Is your church being transparent with it's accountability? How much is going to the maintenance of the church, the church proper, classes for the children? How much is being spent on the Pastor/priest? And how much is being spent on the poor? Do you consider the entire amount you give to be charity?
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Yes, my church's financial reports are complete, right down to the dimes and dollars that the little kids' give and what their individual reasons are too, all published in the bulletin. Very often there is a second collection that is designated for a particular project.

But about the larger issue, sometimes we don't really know whether money will be "well spent." If you hand a beggar a few dollars, he may well buy Mad Dog with it. If you donate to the local food pantry, somebody may be running a scam. If you give because of what is in your heart, you don't need to worry about any of this.
 
nota bene said:
Yes, my church's financial reports are complete, right down to the dimes and dollars that the little kids' give and what their individual reasons are too, all published in the bulletin. Very often there is a second collection that is designated for a particular project.

But about the larger issue, sometimes we don't really know whether money will be "well spent." If you hand a beggar a few dollars, he may well buy Mad Dog with it. If you donate to the local food pantry, somebody may be running a scam. If you give because of what is in your heart, you don't need to worry about any of this.
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You had a good church then. There are a lot of good churches.. but there are enough out there that I see abuse the faith of the followers for personal gain. When you see a pastor in the latest model Audi buying lobster with the church checks, and you know that church is in the poor section of town, it gives a bad impression.
 
RAMOSS said:
You had a good church then. There are a lot of good churches.. but there are enough out there that I see abuse the faith of the followers for personal gain. When you see a pastor in the latest model Audi buying lobster with the church checks, and you know that church is in the poor section of town, it gives a bad impression.
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I honestly don't see that. In fact, my bet is more often than not, when a pastor eats out, somebody else picks up the tab. Keep in mind all the events at which they put in an appearance--after weddings, at post-funeral receptions, etc.
 
nota bene said:
I honestly don't see that. In fact, my bet is more often than not, when a pastor eats out, somebody else picks up the tab. Keep in mind all the events at which they put in an appearance--after weddings, at post-funeral receptions, etc.
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I have seen it. I will admit that is an except rather than a rule. I also know a minister whose sole reason for going into being a minister was to try to avoid taxes. I don't see him ripping off his congregation though
 
I know an Episcopalian priest who entered the seminary only because his father was a canon to the bishop and had maximum pull, and he's been a pretentious, superficial twit for as long as I've known him. But he's the exception rather than the rule.

And that's the point: Most pastors are earnest, committed men and women with a calling. They just don't attract much attention.
 
nota bene said:
I know an Episcopalian priest who entered the seminary only because his father was a canon to the bishop and had maximum pull, and he's been a pretentious, superficial twit for as long as I've known him. But he's the exception rather than the rule.

And that's the point: Most pastors are earnest, committed men and women with a calling. They just don't attract much attention.
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I would think that the ones that attract attention to themselves are the ones that are most likely to not be the earnest committed ones. I would include the vast majority of televangelists in there.
 
Guy Incognito said:
This is the problem with sola scriptura; with just the scripture alone, who is to say what is false? The "Prosperity Gospel" and so forth are the natural outcome when you remove the teaching authority of the Holy Church from the equation.
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It is the natural outcome when you remove God and the Holy Spirit from the equation absolutely.
 
ludin said:
It is the natural outcome when you remove God and the Holy Spirit from the equation absolutely.
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Well, that isnt what they are doing. These prosperity preachers claim to be doing God's work. They invoke the the Holy Spirit all the time.

The problem is not that God and the Holy Spirit have been removed from the equation, it is that the interpretation as to the role of God and Holy Spirit, and Jesus, are being distorted and perverted.

What's missing from the equation? A central interpretive authority: the Holy Church.
 
ludin said:
Sorry I was watching Last Week with John Oliver and he mentioned something
that today just makes my blood boil.

That is the preaching of prosperity Gospel.

Sow a seed and God will reward you. Sow a seed and you will be healed.
Give 1000 and God will return 10k.

this load of bull is so damaging to Christian beliefs it isn't funny.

Does God bless people? yes
Does He bless people for doing good things and bad? yes

Does he bless you for not using your head and giving money to these thieves? no he doesn't.

People God has given you scripture to weed out these types of false teachers. I suggest you do so.
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This is the product of "cultural christianity" and it's a shame so many people have given in to it. They've been indoctrinated from the youngest age to reject anything that goes against what they've been taught by these preachers and pastors who are more like vampires in a sunday suit. They've taken Christ, and distorted His image and His Word to fit an agenda of materialism and greed on a scale that's almost unfathomable. I grew up in this culture, and it's disgusting, perverse, and blasphemous. These people are brought up to believe that if they listen to radio evangelists on the radio and put 10% of their check into the collection plate, they'll obtain salvation. The indoctrination is so solid, so methodical, that it's almost brilliant. These people actually believe that the Bible doesn't matter, and that these preachers are the only way into Heaven. These preachers have rejected the Holy Spirit by dragging hundreds of thousands of souls with them to a place of great weeping and gnashing of teeth just so they can enjoy material things in this world while rejecting what really matters. It is infuriating, and any good Christian, whether Catholic or Protestant, should be outraged by this blasphemy.
 
MrSe7en said:
This is the product of "cultural christianity" and it's a shame so many people have given in to it. They've been indoctrinated from the youngest age to reject anything that goes against what they've been taught by these preachers and pastors who are more like vampires in a sunday suit. They've taken Christ, and distorted His image and His Word to fit an agenda of materialism and greed on a scale that's almost unfathomable. I grew up in this culture, and it's disgusting, perverse, and blasphemous. These people are brought up to believe that if they listen to radio evangelists on the radio and put 10% of their check into the collection plate, they'll obtain salvation. The indoctrination is so solid, so methodical, that it's almost brilliant. These people actually believe that the Bible doesn't matter, and that these preachers are the only way into Heaven. These preachers have rejected the Holy Spirit by dragging hundreds of thousands of souls with them to a place of great weeping and gnashing of teeth just so they can enjoy material things in this world while rejecting what really matters. It is infuriating, and any good Christian, whether Catholic or Protestant, should be outraged by this blasphemy.
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I know I am. the bible says nothing of wealth in this world by giving. in fact it says do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth.
we are supposed to give to show how good God has been to us not because we are going to get something in return from him.

what really gets me is one guy goes you want to get out of that credit card debt then sow a 1000 seed on that credit card. what the heck?
so go into debt 1000 dollars and you think the Lord is going to bless you for it?

no the Lord would have told you to invest that 1000 dollars and then you would pay off that credit card debt.
 
ludin said:
I know I am. the bible says nothing of wealth in this world by giving. in fact it says do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth.
we are supposed to give to show how good God has been to us not because we are going to get something in return from him.

what really gets me is one guy goes you want to get out of that credit card debt then sow a 1000 seed on that credit card. what the heck?
so go into debt 1000 dollars and you think the Lord is going to bless you for it?

no the Lord would have told you to invest that 1000 dollars and then you would pay off that credit card debt.
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We give to those in need because we are supposed to help our fellow man. We are supposed to show each other the same compassion in time of need, and to forgive others their trespasses against us as we would like to receive compassion in time of need, and as we would like to be forgiven our trespasses against others. It's about humanity, and kindness, and humility. When you give to the church, it's not to go toward a massive flat screen, or a tax free cruise to the Caribbean for some guy who isn't sharing a damn thing with you, or anyone else. It's to give the church the resources to help those you personally cannot. It's an extension of the charity you should give, not because you are told to, but because it's what you feel in your heart to be right.
 
CLAX1911 said:
You asked if it was murder to kill people to eat them, I said yes.

I guess I don't follow.
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Wasn't sure if that meant to you it was immoral or not. Murder for self defence is still murder, though arguably not immoral.
 
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