SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY![W:161]

I simply have to address this issue. It is one of those things that I have a hard time letting go without giving an input - not to convince those who'd already staunchly stood their ground on this position - but for the sake of those who could easily get swayed, and confused by the suggested naive viewpoint that the SSM ruling has no impact on Christianity.


The main concern about the SSM ruling is about our right to religious belief and expression. Let's focus on that.


If, as a Christian you believe that homosexuality is NOT forbidden, nor is it a sin......then obviously, the SSM ruling does NOT impact YOUR "Christianity." The SSM ruling does not have an impact on your belief.

But what about those who believe that homosexuality is forbidden and that, it is considered a sin - according to our Scriptures?
There-in comes the impact.


Christians are commissioned to spread the Gospel. There is no getting around that. Mark 16:15


The SSM issue comes with what would be like a "gag order" when it comes to one's religious view about homosexuality. That impacts our Christianity, if we are one of those who believe in what the Scriptures say regarding the homosexual act.


- it impacts how we spread the Gospel. If one should ask you, publicly, what the Bible says about homosexuality - there is pressure and intimidation (if not a penalty) for saying what you believe based on the Scriptures. If we side-step the issue, then we are not disclosing what the Scriptures say about this act, and someone may be encouraged to commit an act simply based on the fact that there's not enough information given by us about the issue. If someone who's contemplating to commit adultery should ask you what the Scriptures really say about adultery - and you become evasive, or ambiguous with the answer - how will that person take it? Especially when he's already contemplating to commit that sin?

Are we going to fall in line with the devil and spread, "HALF-TRUTHS?"

Are we going to help the devil mislead others?



- it impacts the instructions in the Scripture that we are supposed to correct erring BROTHERS if they are committing something that will result in spiritual death!


Christians have a responsibility towards one another to help each other focus on the ultimate goal: eternal life.
We all know that we are all going to battle with temptation until the day we finally die - and we try to give each other strength to fight temptation, by reminding one another of the promise of Christ - the great importance of OBEDIENCE to God's will.

If your loved one is a drug addict, do you say to him, "it's okay....you can go on if that makes you happy." Is that love?
Or you've just simply given up arguing with him every time you try to admonish him, that now you just prefer - and had rationalized it - to agree with him? Have you justified why you now condone his addiction? Is it out of love for him, or for your own self-interest (like you don't want to deal with the stress of having arguments; or it's more convenient for you to condone his addiction, etc).

Before any of you point a finger and start spouting off about love, let me remind you that love comes in different shades. AND sometimes what you say is love, is merely your own rationalization - it is not love for your brother, but rather more of love of yourself. It is more convenient for you to agree, and go with the flow. Self-interest, is most likely at the root of it all.


That's just the impact I could think of right now, but there are many more.

The SSM ruling is the train that pulls a string of caboose with it.

It impacts different areas of Christianity.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

How odd that people can elevate the persecution of a small minority to the status of religion like they do.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

tosca1 said:

I simply have to address this issue.
(edit to make fit)
But what about those who believe that homosexuality is forbidden and that, it is considered a sin - according to our Scriptures? There-in comes the impact.

Christians are commissioned to spread the Gospel. There is no getting around that. Mark 16:15


The SSM issue comes with what would be a like a "gag order" when it comes to one's religious view about homosexuality. That impacts our Christianity, if we are one of those who believe in what the Scriptures say regarding the homosexual act.

- it impacts how we spread the Gospel. If one should ask you, publicly, what the Bible says about homosexuality - there is pressure and intimidation (if not a penalty) for saying what you believe based on the Scriptures. If we side-step the issue, then we are not disclosing what the Scriptures say about this act, and someone may be encouraged to commit an act simply based on the fact that there's not enough information given by us about the issue. If someone who's contemplating to commit adultery should ask you what the Scriptures really say about adultery - and you become evasive, or ambiguous with the answer - how will that person take it? Especially when he's already contemplating to commit that sin?

Are we going to fall in line with the devil and spread, "HALF-TRUTHS?"

Are we going to help the devil mislead others?


- it impacts the instructions in the Scripture that we are supposed to correct erring BROTHERS if they are committing something that will result in spiritual death!

Christians have a responsibility towards one another to help each other focus on the ultimate goal: eternal life.
We all know that we are all going to battle with temptation until the day we finally die - and we try to give each other strength to fight temptation, by reminding one another of the promise of Christ - the great importance of OBEDIENCE to God's will.

If your loved one is a drug addict, do you say to him, "it's okay....you can go on if that makes you happy." Is that love? Or you've just simply given up arguing with him every time you try to admonish him that now you just prefer - and had rationalized - to agree with him? Have you justified why you now condone his addiction? Is it out of love for him, or for your own self-interest (like you don't want to deal with the stress of having arguments; or it's more convenient for you to condone his addiction, etc).

Before any of you point a finger and start spouting off about love, let me remind you that love comes in different shades. AND sometimes what you say is love, is merely your own rationalization - it is not love for your brother, but rather more of love of yourself. It is more convenient for you to agree, and go with the flow. Self-interest, is most likely at the root of it all.

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If you think thats your duty you are still free to do all of that so your false assumption completely fails and falls right on its face :shrug:
SSM didnt change that one bit so your OP completely fails
SSM was going on BEFORE the ruling so your OP completely fails
many other sins some that are illegal some that are legal are going on now, none of that impacts Christianity either so your OP completely fails
also what about all the other legal marriages that have been legal that also violate Christian religious views? those didn't effect Christianity either so your OP completely fails.

the only way to make that inane and failed logic in the quote above work is if you believe you already never had those religious rights or abilities because of the many many other legal sins you claim that are hinder your belief somehow. So if you never had them then again, nothing has changed and your OP fails . . .

there is no amount of logic or even one fact you can present that supports such asinine claims especially when its dishonestly based on the act of passing SSM alone and ignores reality. Why dont all the other things that have existed you whole life hinder you? why just equal rights for gays? Sorry nobody will fall for such illogical, dishonest claims because they can't be supported looking at facts and the real world. SO either admit that your op fails or if you think the logic is solid then you also have to admit that your whole life you have been hindered by the many sins that are legal but we dont have to get into any list we can just focus on one. Legal marriage. Its been legal your whole life so according to you logic it has alwasy hindered you and NOTHING has changed. Cant have it both ways.

Hopefully this helps your mistake, your welcome.
facts win again

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

Gardener said:

How odd that people can elevate the persecution of a small minority to the status of religion like they do.

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its very odd, Im a Christian and the whole makes ZERO logical sense . . . . equal rights for gays has not impact on my religious rights whatsoever. NONE. Theres nothing in Christianity that tells me i have to stop equal rights nor is there anything that says the government must follow my religion. Its complete nonsense, im just glad the majority of Christians are for equal rights and don't push this nonsense, unfortunately that's not what makes news, those nutters are the loudest squeaky wheel.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

Gays getting the same rights you have always had makes you a victim. Fascinating.

Rest assured, your 1st amendment rights are still completely intact. You can say or express any religious viewpoint, no matter how hate-filled or bigoted completely without legal repercussion. This ruling also has absolutely nothing to do with public accommodation laws, so if your state doesn't have orientation as a protected class, you can still freely discriminate against them, though I would question your likeness to Christ. For those in states where orientation is a protected class, you rights as a Christian business owner aren't being infringed any more than the racist business owner who wants to discriminate against blacks.

Gays getting the right to marry impacts Christianity in the same way that your right to marry impacts my religion: not at all. I think we should try to act like adults and respect each other's rights and limit the victim hyperbole.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

AGENT J said:

its very odd, Im a Christian and the whole makes ZERO logical sense . . . . equal rights for gays has not impact on my religious rights whatsoever. NONE. Theres nothing in Christianity that tells me i have to stop equal rights nor is there anything that says the government must follow my religion. Its complete nonsense, im just glad the majority of Christians are for equal rights and don't push this nonsense, unfortunately that's not what makes news, those nutters are the loudest squeaky wheel.

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We've read all that before.....we know your opinion.




Do you have anything to give as a sound argument?

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

AGENT J said:

its very odd, Im a Christian and the whole makes ZERO logical sense . . . . equal rights for gays has not impact on my religious rights whatsoever. NONE. Theres nothing in Christianity that tells me i have to stop equal rights nor is there anything that says the government must follow my religion. Its complete nonsense, im just glad the majority of Christians are for equal rights and don't push this nonsense, unfortunately that's not what makes news, those nutters are the loudest squeaky wheel.

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No, it makers no sense at all. If a person were to simply pick up the New Testament and start reading it cover to cover like they would any other book, they would have to be quite off their rocker to come away with the impression that the persecution of gay people was the single most important aspect of their religion. Especially considering that the Sermon on The Mount is right there at the beginning, it is pretty obvious what Jesus' actual message was, and it sure wasn't political and it sure didn't involve bullying minorities.

Jesus said "Believe in ME". He didn't say, "Believe in the preacher thumping his bible in order to spread hatred". Those who devote so many hundreds and hundreds of postings to their hatred are doing anything BUT believing in Jesus. He warned of false prophets, yet countless individuals seem quite hell bent on following them anyway.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

Gardener said:

How odd that people can elevate the persecution of a small minority to the status of religion like they do.

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It is quite a queer thing to do, it would appear.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

AGENT J said:

its very odd, Im a Christian and the whole makes ZERO logical sense . . . . equal rights for gays has not impact on my religious rights whatsoever. NONE. Theres nothing in Christianity that tells me i have to stop equal rights nor is there anything that says the government must follow my religion. Its complete nonsense, im just glad the majority of Christians are for equal rights and don't push this nonsense, unfortunately that's not what makes news, those nutters are the loudest squeaky wheel.

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There are people that would not notice intrusion unless it was them that were kicked in the teeth.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

AGENT J said:

If you think thats your duty you are still free to do all of that so your false assumption completely fails and falls right on its face :shrug:
SSM didnt change that one bit so your OP completely fails
SSM was going on BEFORE the ruling so your OP completely fails
many other sins some that are illegal some that are legal are going on now, none of that impacts Christianity either so your OP completely fails
also what about all the other legal marriages that have been legal that also violate Christian religious views? those didn't effect Christianity either so your OP completely fails.

the only way to make that inane and failed logic in the quote above work is if you believe you already never had those religious rights or abilities because of the many many other legal sins you claim that are hinder your belief somehow. So if you never had them then again, nothing has changed and your OP fails . . .

there is no amount of logic or even one fact you can present that supports such asinine claims especially when its dishonestly based on the act of passing SSM alone and ignores reality. Why dont all the other things that have existed you whole life hinder you? why just equal rights for gays? Sorry nobody will fall for such illogical, dishonest claims because they can't be supported looking at facts and the real world. SO either admit that your op fails or if you think the logic is solid then you also have to admit that your whole life you have been hindered by the many sins that are legal but we dont have to get into any list we can just focus on one. Legal marriage. Its been legal your whole life so according to you logic it has alwasy hindered you and NOTHING has changed. Cant have it both ways.

Hopefully this helps your mistake, your welcome.
facts win again

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If you believe homosexuality is not forbidden....well of course, the ruling will have no impact on YOUR belief.


You can't speak for me, though....or, for those who don't believe the way you do.
Especially when you offer no sound rebuttal.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

RabidAlpaca said:

.....
Rest assured, your 1st amendment rights are still completely intact......

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They are many things, but that they certainly are not. I am not going to argue the logic again here, because the paradigm is so strong in some minds that there is no point. It reminds me of other contradictions of legal or societal paradigm in history. Very interesting.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

tosca1 said:

If you believe Homosexuality is not forbidden....well of course, the ruling will have no impact on YOUR belief.

You can't speak for me though....or, for those who don't believe the way you do.

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You are soo mean!

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

tosca1 said:

We've read all that before.....we know your opinion.




Do you have anything to give as a sound argument?

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Translation: you know you failed argument is destroyed so you deflect. that's what I thought LMAO
your post fails and facts win again

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

Gardener said:

No, it makers no sense at all. If a person were to simply pick up the New Testament and start reading it cover to cover like they would any other book, they would have to be quite off their rocker to come away with the impression that the persecution of gay people was the single most important aspect of their religion. Especially considering that the Sermon on The Mount is right there at the beginning, it is pretty obvious what Jesus' actual message was, and it sure wasn't political and it sure didn't involve bullying minorities.

Jesus said "Believe in ME". He didn't say, "Believe in the preacher thumping his bible in order to spread hatred". Those who devote so many hundreds and hundreds of postings to their hatred are doing anything BUT believing in Jesus. He warned of false prophets, yet countless individuals seem quite hell bent on following them anyway.

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I agree it doesnt make any sense, because the claims are illogical both based on law and reality and faith.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

joG said:

There are people that would not notice intrusion unless it was them that were kicked in the teeth.

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yes i know its those people im talkign about, they want to intrude on the rights of their fellow americans and not allow them to have equal rights, they are very much blinded by dishonest and or bigotry. That was exactly my point. thanks

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

joG said:

There are people that would not notice intrusion unless it was them that were kicked in the teeth.

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There are others who see persecution where there is none. They are often medicated in extreme cases.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

tosca1 said:

But what about those who believe that homosexuality is forbidden and that, it is considered a sin - according to our Scriptures?

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What about those who believe drinking alcohol is forbidden? What about those who believe divorce is forbidden? What about those who believe following other religions is forbidden? Legalising SSM certain has potential to impact some people but that's no different to pretty much any other law and it's no exclusive to (or targeted at) Christian.

tosca1 said:

The SSM issue comes with what would be like a "gag order" when it comes to one's religious view about homosexuality.

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No it doesn't. You're as free to speak out against legal acts you disagree with as you've always been.

tosca1 said:

If one should ask you, publicly, what the Bible says about homosexuality - there is pressure and intimidation (if not a penalty) for saying what you believe based on the Scriptures.

Click to expand...

In some contexts there are social pressures against supporting homosexuality but then in other contexts, there are social pressures against supporting it. Again, those pressures apply to lots of different issues, apply to everyone and existed before and despite SSM rulings and legislation either way.

tosca1 said:

If your loved one is a drug addict, do you say to him, "it's okay....you can go on if that makes you happy." Is that love?
Or you've just simply given up arguing with him every time you try to admonish him, that now you just prefer - and had rationalized it - to agree with him? Have you justified why you now condone his addiction? Is it out of love for him, or for your own self-interest (like you don't want to deal with the stress of having arguments; or it's more convenient for you to condone his addiction, etc).

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That sounds like an entirely personal issue and I don't see how legalising SSM makes any significant difference. Again, this is an issue that could apply equally to illegal acts or legal acts.

I don't think anyone can deny that SSM (and legalisation of homosexuality itself) makes some Christians and some other people uncomfortable but how many laws are there that everyone agrees with completely?

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

tosca1 said:

If you believe homosexuality is not forbidden....well of course, the ruling will have no impact on YOUR belief.


You can't speak for me, though....or, for those who don't believe the way you do.
Especially when you offer no sound rebuttal.

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what are you talking about a belief that homosexual is forbidden doesnt change anything that lie was already destroyed LMAO
fact remains that legal marriage has impacted you your whole entire life and so has ever other sin that is not illegal or they havent. you cant have it both ways.
you op instatnly fails because of how illogical and hypocritical it is.

lets see if you answer this simply question.
Does legal marriage without SSM added to it also impact you? yes or no

i bet you dodge this question

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

HonestJoe said:

What about those who believe drinking alcohol is forbidden? What about those who believe divorce is forbidden?

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Read the OP. I gave adultery as an example. No-fault divorce is legalized - does that negate what it says in the Scriptures against adultery? No.

The premise I've brought up is the impact the ruling brings against right to religion and expression.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

tosca1 said:

If you believe homosexuality is not forbidden....well of course, the ruling will have no impact on YOUR belief.


You can't speak for me, though....or, for those who don't believe the way you do.
Especially when you offer no sound rebuttal.

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You seem to be under the impression that the continuous usage of emoticons along with bold or colored fonts provides you all the necessary arguments for your persecution, but where, exactly did Jesus say that hating homosexuals was the very most important aspect of the gospel He preached?

When I read the red letters, I come away with the impression that He had something completely different in mind.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

Gardener said:

You seem to be under the impression that the continuous usage of emoticons along with bold or colored fonts provides you all the necessary arguments for your persecution, but where, exactly did Jesus say that hating homosexuals was the very most important aspect of the gospel He preached?

When I read the red letters, I come away with the impression that He had something completely different in mind.

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Thar's you. I'm not you. :shrug:

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

tosca1 said:

Read the OP. I gave adultery as an example. No-fault divorce is legalized - does that negate what it says in the Scriptures against adultery? No.

The premise I've brought up is the impact the ruling brings against right to religion and expression.

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You've claimed the SSM ruling impacts religious expression but the very fact that those other things many Christians consider sins (including homosexuality itself) have been legal for a long time without impacting religious expression, you've not shown why the SSM ruling is a special case.

You're also not addressed my point that even if there is an impact, pretty much all laws will impact someone negativity so why should Christians and this law be treated as a special case?

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

AGENT J said:

yes i know its those people im talkign about, they want to intrude on the rights of their fellow americans and not allow them to have equal rights, they are very much blinded by dishonest and or bigotry. That was exactly my point. thanks

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You are absolutely right. The New-Bigots are really quite blind, dishonest and put their bodily desires before the basic rights of their fellow citizens from their communal Constitution. A pretty ugly lot.

But that is less what I find remarkable, which is that they seemingly do not understand the dangers to themselves, their demands imply. As specimens in a sociological experiment, though, they are very interesting.

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

tosca1 said:

Thar's you. :shrug:

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and here I didn't even realize it was talk like a pirate day!

Re: SSM Ruling IMPACTS CHRISTIANITY!

Manc Skipper said:

There are others who see persecution where there is none. They are often medicated in extreme cases.

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Majorities an the street usually do not see the persecution their demands imply. It is not that they are idiots. It is human nature and exactly, what the Constitution was meant to prevent.