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The windows of heaven have opened...

 
As you may know very well, Goshin, I don't really believe in god, especially the christian god, but I'm glad thing are going well for you and your's.

I hope things keep going that way. :)
 
Your Star said:
As you may know very well, Goshin, I don't really believe in god, especially the christian god, but I'm glad thing are going well for you and your's.

I hope things keep going that way. :)
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Thank you very much. We have indeed been greatly blessed and things are really looking up for us, in many ways.

While I know we disagree strongly on a number of things, I want you to know I appreciate you putting that aside to express your good wishes toward us. :)
 
Andalublue said:
Goshin, you probably know that I don't share your faith, but mine teaches that good things will accrue to good people, irrespective of whether they follow a god, gods, prophets or nothing at all.
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Hello, Andalublue.

"Good," as used above, can be confusing, because what's 'good' in a man is not necessarily good in God's eyes.

As Jesus said, "There is none good except the one God" (Luke 18:19). And, as Paul noted, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). God's idea of 'good' is perfect righteousness. No mere mortal has ever achieved that.

Which is why we all need a savior, who is Jesus Christ. And if people don't have the perfect righteousness of Christ, they are lost.

Just thought I'd share that with you.
 
Logicman said:
Hello, Andalublue.

"Good," as used above, can be confusing, because what's 'good' in a man is not necessarily good in God's eyes.

As Jesus said, "There is none good except the one God" (Luke 18:19). And, as Paul noted, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23). God's idea of 'good' is perfect righteousness. No mere mortal has ever achieved that.

Which is why we all need a savior, who is Jesus Christ. And if people don't have the perfect righteousness of Christ, they are lost.

Just thought I'd share that with you.
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Since I don't believe in your god, nor indeed in any other, I have to use a different standard to gauge goodness.

Goshin is a good person in my estimation, irrespective, or even in spite of his faith in any deity.
 
Andalublue said:
Since I don't believe in your god, nor indeed in any other, I have to use a different standard to gauge goodness.

Goshin is a good person in my estimation, irrespective, or even in spite of his faith in any deity.
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I thank you for your very kinds words towards me, but I know myself to be a man of many flaws and faults. I do not rest on my own merit but in the Grace of Jesus.

If I have any virtue it is simply that if in doubt, I try to err on the side of kindness and compassion... and even that is something I learned from the Jewish Carpenter. :)
 
Goshin said:
If I have any virtue it is simply that if in doubt, I try to err on the side of kindness and compassion... and even that is something I learned from the Jewish Carpenter. :)
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I think the bold part is the is sense of true spirituality (IMO), no matter what the framework of belief the supports it.
 
Goshin said:
I thank you for your very kinds words towards me, but I know myself to be a man of many flaws and faults. I do not rest on my own merit but in the Grace of Jesus.

If I have any virtue it is simply that if in doubt, I try to err on the side of kindness and compassion... and even that is something I learned from the Jewish Carpenter. :)
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Your humility does you credit. If you ascribe that to your faith then who am I to say you're deluded? Even if I might ascribe it to more humanistic sources.
 
RAMOSS said:
I think the bold part is the is sense of true spirituality (IMO), no matter what the framework of belief the supports it.
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Yes, I find throughout the Bible, and most especially in the teachings of Jesus, that compassion and kindness, mercy and humility, and charity, are extolled as being among the greatest of virtues to practice.

Given that I am flawed at best, and sometimes an outright jackass, I figured I should cultivate those as much as possible. :)
 
I hope that our efforts at "cultivation" rather than our daily failures are pleasing to our Father, Goshin.
 
nota bene said:
I hope that our efforts at "cultivation" rather than our daily failures are pleasing to our Father, Goshin.
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Heard and seconded. :)
 
Goshin said:
Yes, I find throughout the Bible, and most especially in the teachings of Jesus, that compassion and kindness, mercy and humility, and charity, are extolled as being among the greatest of virtues to practice.

Given that I am flawed at best, and sometimes an outright jackass, I figured I should cultivate those as much as possible. :)
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I am always happy to see Christians who do their best to emulate the best messages in Jesus. From an outsider looking in, there seem to be two basic philosophies about how Christians follow their religion. The one way is "Look at the message from Jesus" , and the other is 'Look at the message about Jesus', which translates into "look at what Jesus did for me'. That give a very different flavor on how Christians will treat others. I find the former attitude much more in line with the Jewish tradition I grew up with.
 
Goshin said:
I thank you for your very kinds words towards me, but I know myself to be a man of many flaws and faults. I do not rest on my own merit but in the Grace of Jesus.

If I have any virtue it is simply that if in doubt, I try to err on the side of kindness and compassion... and even that is something I learned from the Jewish Carpenter. :)
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From a quote from a really great movie.
God is good all the time and all the time God is good.

I've been wrestling with some things myself lately and to be honest they weren't good things.
until I read something the other day and I had to just break down over it.

The Lord reminded me that He gives blessings in both good and bad, and that
He does all things for His good.

Even though we might not see that it is good or view it as unfair. the ultimate end of any situation
is to show His Glory and His power in all situations.
 
RAMOSS said:
I am always happy to see Christians who do their best to emulate the best messages in Jesus. From an outsider looking in, there seem to be two basic philosophies about how Christians follow their religion. The one way is "Look at the message from Jesus" , and the other is 'Look at the message about Jesus', which translates into "look at what Jesus did for me'. That give a very different flavor on how Christians will treat others. I find the former attitude much more in line with the Jewish tradition I grew up with.
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Christ gave his life for me why would not rejoice and be glad in it?
For if you deny me before men I will deny you before the father.
 
ludin said:
Christ gave his life for me why would not rejoice and be glad in it?
For if you deny me before men I will deny you before the father.
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That's the attitude that gives rise to arrogance and intolerance to others. It's all about YOU and what Christ did for YOU. That does not align with my religious tradition.
 
RAMOSS said:
That's the attitude that gives rise to arrogance and intolerance to others. It's all about YOU and what Christ did for YOU. That does not align with my religious tradition.
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To all Christians, the center and hub and root of our beliefs is in Christ; it is all but impossible for us to speak of our faith without speaking of Jesus. In our faith it isn't "about me" it is "about Him," and what He did was done for all who would receive him as Lord. We can't really say otherwise without violating our own beliefs. Or perhaps I've misunderstood the distinction you're trying to make?
 
RAMOSS said:
That's the attitude that gives rise to arrogance and intolerance to others. It's all about YOU and what Christ did for YOU. That does not align with my religious tradition.
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nope no arrogance at all. it doesn't have to align with you.

For God so loved the world that He sent his only begotten Son so that none may perish but have everlasting life.
 
Goshin said:
To all Christians, the center and hub and root of our beliefs is in Christ; it is all but impossible for us to speak of our faith without speaking of Jesus. In our faith it isn't "about me" it is "about Him," and what He did was done for all who would receive him as Lord. We can't really say otherwise without violating our own beliefs. Or perhaps I've misunderstood the distinction you're trying to make?
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Oh, I understand. But, that isn't the point I am making. One is 'doing what Jesus said to do'. and the other is 'Look what Jesus did for me'.
 
RAMOSS said:
That's the attitude that gives rise to arrogance and intolerance to others. It's all about YOU and what Christ did for YOU. That does not align with my religious tradition.
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That's the basic teaching! Christ, wanting us to remember His love for US - what He's done for US!
And that includes dying for YOU, too (even though you don't believe in Him).

You may not agree with it - to you it may smack of "arrogance" - but, the teaching does not allow for any concession. It's not up for negotiations.
Jesus spelled it clearly. :shrug:


I'm not getting it though why you seem to gravitate often around Christ and His followers?
 
RAMOSS said:
Oh, I understand. But, that isn't the point I am making. One is 'doing what Jesus said to do'. and the other is 'Look what Jesus did for me'.
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Well? What "point" are you on about?

Remembering what Jesus had done for us all (including non-believers like you), is doing, what Jesus said to do!

That's THE GOOD NEWS!
 
tosca1 said:
Well? What "point" are you on about?

Remembering what Jesus had done for us all (including non-believers like you), is doing, what Jesus said to do!

That's THE GOOD NEWS!
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He is still caught under the old jewish law. where having to live day by day under the law is what they strive for.
however they fail on a constant basis because the only way to actually uphold the law is to be perfect.

For by grace are you saved not through works least any man should boast.
if you were able to purchase your salvation through works I think the task would be impossible.

for what you deem as good God doesn't.
he compares many works to filthy rags and if you want the actual reference to that it is similar to a women on her cycle.

you can't work your way into heaven.
here is the best part.

no matter how much we screw up and don't live up to God's standards he will still forgive through the blood of Jesus Christ.
I have an anniversary coming up in 4 days. I will have been married for 11 years. I have 5 beautiful kids and a wife who I adore
greatly. I love her more now than I did when I married her and I know we are still together by the grace of God and the love
that he has for me.
 
Goshin said:
To all Christians, the center and hub and root of our beliefs is in Christ; it is all but impossible for us to speak of our faith without speaking of Jesus. In our faith it isn't "about me" it is "about Him," and what He did was done for all who would receive him as Lord. We can't really say otherwise without violating our own beliefs. Or perhaps I've misunderstood the distinction you're trying to make?
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Yes, our faith is about Him and in Him.
It's a daily walk and a dying out of self to do His will as we are not inherently good.
He is a Holy God and desires that we strive to walk a holy walk.
When you are in fellowship with the Lord, just try to do something wrong for the Holy Spirit will be the first to convict you of it and you are miserable until you repent and correct it.
 
Thank You, dear God. Thank You.
 
vesper said:
Yes, our faith is about Him and in Him.
It's a daily walk and a dying out of self to do His will as we are not inherently good.
He is a Holy God and desires that we strive to walk a holy walk.
When you are in fellowship with the Lord, just try to do something wrong for the Holy Spirit will be the first to convict you of it and you are miserable until you repent and correct it.
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Christ says that his yoke is light.

why? because he has already bore the burden that we were supposed to.
I find it funny that we attempt to pay God back for what He did.

Jesus paid it all and all to him we owe.
the only thing we owe Christ is praise and worship.

it is similar to you go out to eat and while you are eating you run up a 50 dollar bill. I come along and pay that bill and not say anything.
when the time comes the people go sir your bill is already paid you owe nothing.

yet you insist on paying for it. yet you can't pay something already paid.
 
Lovingly dedicated to parents....



 
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