• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

The Apostle, Paul.

What helps make Paul credible ln my book is everything he "gave up" to preach the gospel. Think of his lifestyle before the "road to Damascus " and what he endured after that encounter. He surely didn't "profit" from such a story if it was fabricated.
The Bible is filled with the stories of people who suffered for their beliefs -- including the gentleman that Paul was telling everyone about.;)

His faith isn't a concern for me, it's proximity.
 
Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
I never said I discarded Paul entirely. Without his good works in expanding the Church I don't think organized Christianity would be what it is today.
That said, I still think he was merely a man and some of his words were based, as with many fellow Christians today, on what he thought best reflected his understanding of the teachings of Christ.


They're all merely men!

It's the Holy Spirit/God, that made them "different" from others.
 
Last edited:
What helps make Paul credible ln my book is everything he "gave up" to preach the gospel. Think of his lifestyle before the "road to Damascus " and what he endured after that encounter. He surely didn't "profit" from such a story if it was fabricated.

Exactly!

It's the same transformation that happened to all the apostles/disciples right after they witnessed the Resurrection. They were fearful and went into hiding when Jesus got crucified. Then suddenly, they became fearless and relentless - thus Christianity exploded in the region!

That sudden fearlessness and relentlessness - and the willingness to die - has to come from something. CONFIDENCE! UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE!
Furthermore, they knew the consequence of being a disciple - Jesus explained it to them (and what they didn't quite get before what He was on about, they now fully understand). So they willingly went into persecution and martyrdom with their eyes wide open!

There has to be a motive if it's all fabricated! Who would willingly die for a lie, with nothing to gain?
 
Last edited:
The Bible is filled with the stories of people who suffered for their beliefs -- including the gentleman that Paul was telling everyone about.;)

His faith isn't a concern for me, it's proximity.


You've got to use logic, then....especially when you're throwing out faith.

And we've got logic on our side.
 
You've got to use logic, then....especially when you're throwing out faith.

And we've got logic on our side.
There is no evidence that Paul followed Jesus prior to his crucifixion.
 
That is the criteria I was using to determine whether someone is an apostle.

That's been rebutted already! Read posts #3 and 4.

You have to give a counter to my rebuttal!
 
That is the criteria I was using to determine whether someone is an apostle.


No one is claiming Paul/Saul encountered Jesus in the flesh during his earthly incarnation, but rather that it was a spiritual meeting on the road to Damascus.

Now as a non-Christian, you have the option of discounting such supernatural events, as you seem to be doing. However, actual believers are typically going to be more open to the idea that Paul encountered Jesus in a spiritual form on the Damascus road. There's a significant difference of perspective involved.

Granted, Paul was not one of the original 12, nor a follower of Jesus during his time on earth. His status as an apostle could be questioned on that basis, yes.

Yet for those who accept the supernatural Damascus road encounter, and the commission by God to carry the word to the Gentiles and its subsequent tremendous success as evidence of its divine ordination, Paul is widely considered an Apostle by most of Christendom.

His writings have been considered canon scripture by almost every branch and denomination of Christendom for roughly two millennia; accepted by almost all highly regarded theologians and church leaders; and even today there are few actual believers who question the inclusion of Pauline scripture into canon.


All that adds up to a lot of "firepower" on the side of considering Paul a genuine representative of Apostolic authority and his writings suitable for Christian guidance.
 
No one is claiming Paul/Saul encountered Jesus in the flesh during his earthly incarnation, but rather that it was a spiritual meeting on the road to Damascus.

Now as a non-Christian, you have the option of discounting such supernatural events, as you seem to be doing. However, actual believers are typically going to be more open to the idea that Paul encountered Jesus in a spiritual form on the Damascus road. There's a significant difference of perspective involved.

Granted, Paul was not one of the original 12, nor a follower of Jesus during his time on earth. His status as an apostle could be questioned on that basis, yes.

Yet for those who accept the supernatural Damascus road encounter, and the commission by God to carry the word to the Gentiles and its subsequent tremendous success as evidence of its divine ordination, Paul is widely considered an Apostle by most of Christendom.

His writings have been considered canon scripture by almost every branch and denomination of Christendom for roughly two millennia; accepted by almost all highly regarded theologians and church leaders; and even today there are few actual believers who question the inclusion of Pauline scripture into canon.


All that adds up to a lot of "firepower" on the side of considering Paul a genuine representative of Apostolic authority and his writings suitable for Christian guidance.

I completely understand that viewpoint, and you've additionally summarized my viewpoint as well.
 
Who wrote the Book of Acts?

Captain Adverse and all the rest who share the same view regarding Paul, kindly answer - who wrote the Book
of Acts?

Luke wrote the book of acts, but luke was also a companion of Paul for a while.

Paul actually fulfills the requirements for an apostle.

Apostle means sent one.

Paul qualifies as an apostle because it was God himself that sent Paul to preach to the Gentiles.
He was not commissioned by another man or by one of the other disicples, but was commissioned by Christ.

Galations 1
1 Paul, an apostle—not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead— 2 and all the brothers[a] who are with me,

Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord? 2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

3 This is my defense to those who would examine me.
 
Paul was a very preachy apostle but an apostle he was - given his transformation from killing Christ's followers to then being a follower himself.

On a personal note I find Paul's books very cumbersome to get through. Perhaps it's because for years my pastor dove into 90 minutes of various aspects of Corinthians1 and 2 for what seemed like eons. When I read Paul's work now I tire of it quickly.
 
Paul was a very preachy apostle but an apostle he was - given his transformation from killing Christ's followers to then being a follower himself.

On a personal note I find Paul's books very cumbersome to get through. Perhaps it's because for years my pastor dove into 90 minutes of various aspects of Corinthians1 and 2 for what seemed like eons. When I read Paul's work now I tire of it quickly.

There are several possible reasons that might contribute to that. First of all, Paul was not writing letters to be scripture, but he was addressing what he saw as problems with various communities. The second issue is that the letters are actually a composite of several letters rolled up in one, and then at least a couple seem to have gone through some interpolations.
 
There are several possible reasons that might contribute to that. First of all, Paul was not writing letters to be scripture, but he was addressing what he saw as problems with various communities. The second issue is that the letters are actually a composite of several letters rolled up in one, and then at least a couple seem to have gone through some interpolations.

Yep all true - but you'd think our pastor thought it was the gospels the way he went on week after week for nearly two years then. The congregation would visibly get ecstatic if we moved to Matthew or Acts for a while.
 
Yep all true - but you'd think our pastor thought it was the gospels the way he went on week after week for nearly two years then. The congregation would visibly get ecstatic if we moved to Matthew or Acts for a while.



You'd think pastors would get it when their "Forty-seven part series of sermons analyzing Thessalonians line by line" results in reduced attendance and a lot of sleepy stares after a few weeks... :D
 
You'd think pastors would get it when their "Forty-seven part series of sermons analyzing Thessalonians line by line" results in reduced attendance and a lot of sleepy stares after a few weeks... :D

Exactly! It was good though but it certainly filled my need for Corinthians for quite a while. :)
 
Paul was indeed an Apostle.

From the following link:

"Looking in Scriptures, I believe there are 3 credentials a true apostle should have: they are called by Jesus, they are given the ability to perform miracles, and they are given a message to speak by the Holy Spirit."

A Sure Word: The Credentials of an Apostle

I'll add one more qualification that Paul met: Jesus appeared to him - not only on the Road to Damascus, but perhaps an additional time as we read in 1 Corinthians 15: "And last of all He (Jesus) appeared to me..."
 
Back
Top Bottom