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Life-Transforming Bible

jmotivator said:
It's not injustice. All people have the same requirements for salvation.

Imagine a world where the greatest sinners have no hope of redemption.


1 Corinthians 13

Chapter 13[a]
1 If I speak in human and angelic tongues[b.] but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

4 [c]Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, 5 it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, 6 it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. 7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

8 [d]Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing. 9 For we know partially and we prophesy partially, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things. 12 At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known. 13 [e]So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.
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At no point does this explain why it's ok to torture someone for eternity for picking the wrong religion when there's no objective way to show any one religion is any more right than another. How sadistic is that? You just have to guess and hope you get the right religion or god will torture you.

Considering what religion you are 99% of the time only depends on in which country you were born and what your parents religion is, some people were created simply to burn. Why is being born into the wrong religion the only non-forgivable sin?
 
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RabidAlpaca said:
At no point does this explain why it's ok to torture someone for eternity for picking the wrong religion when there's no objective way to show any one religion is any more right than another. How sadistic is that? You just have to guess and hope you get the right religion or god will torture you.

Considering what religion you are 99% of the time only depends on in which country you were born and what your parents religion is, some people were created simply to burn. Why is being born into the wrong religion the only non-forgivable sin?
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The Bible says nothing about eternal hell fire for those who chose the wrong religion. Jesus is God's word made flesh, and God's word is written on all hearts, so following the good word written on your heart will get you to Heaven regardless of religion. Most religions simply argue that they have a better map.
 
jmotivator said:
The Bible says nothing about eternal hell fire for those who chose the wrong religion. Jesus is God's word made flesh, and God's word is written on all hearts, so following the good word written on your heart will get you to Heaven regardless of religion. Most religions simply argue that they have a better map.
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Like your one of the many does.
 
If those who believe really believe, then they have to ignore some glaring questions. For instance, assuming that not choosing the correct religion is not automatically a hellable offence, then certainly other things are. And, even if someone spends their whole life doing evil, hurtful crap to other people and he never gets caught or is held responsible for his actions, an eternity of suffering in fire and brimstone seems a bit of overkill. Furthermore, if heaven is so wonderful then the victims who go there are better off. Compared to eternity, a human lifespan is a blip on a blip. So, whether you live three or three hundred years, in the grand eternal scheme of things, it's nothing.

One must also wonder how god, who is omniscient, cannot know before a baby is born that it will be hell bound. Some are created just to be destroyed. Some must have their evil blip define their eternity. Yet, the church itself is immune to such judgements. While the rest of us are defined by the worst thing we've ever done, the church can oppress, murder, rape and steal from its congregations with impunity and forever call itself god's house. Truly, each of those things have been done by agents of the faiths. How similar they are to the actions of faithless criminals. I guess that's the difference between the evil and the forgiven.
 
D_NATURED said:
One must also wonder how god, who is omniscient, cannot know before a baby is born that it will be hell bound. Some are created just to be destroyed. Some must have their evil blip define their eternity. Yet, the church itself is immune to such judgements. While the rest of us are defined by the worst thing we've ever done, the church can oppress, murder, rape and steal from its congregations with impunity and forever call itself god's house. Truly, each of those things have been done by agents of the faiths. How similar they are to the actions of faithless criminals. I guess that's the difference between the evil and the forgiven.
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The church is immune to such judgment? Really? Where did you read this? Its certainly not biblical. to the contrary, Christ promises a special judgment for those in "the church" who mislead God's children.
 
FluffyNinja said:
The church is immune to such judgment? Really? Where did you read this? Its certainly not biblical. to the contrary, Christ promises a special judgment for those in "the church" who mislead God's children.
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If a man rapes a child, he gets put in prison (removed from access to other people) for the rest of his life (eternity). If the agents of the church rape a child, the church gets to cover it up and, even if they can't, they are not called the church of rape there on out. There is no real way to dissolve a church. They are immune from the same punishments the rest of us endure. See the catholics and muslims and many protestant sects for examples.
 
D_NATURED said:
If a man rapes a child, he gets put in prison (removed from access to other people) for the rest of his life (eternity). If the agents of the church rape a child, the church gets to cover it up and, even if they can't, they are not called the church of rape there on out. There is no real way to dissolve a church. They are immune from the same punishments the rest of us endure. See the catholics and muslims and many protestant sects for examples.
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Well you're not talking about God or the Christ that I know. You're talking about rotten, corrupted people who claim to be followers of Christ but whose actions obviously don't show evidence of that. Like I said, Christ promises a terrible judgment for those who exhibit iniquity while professing His name.
If you're talking strictly about "immunity" from the judgments of men, then as far as modern Christianity goes, I would vehemently disagree. In what nations are Christian leaders immune from the law?

I cant speak for Islam....in most Islamic states the lines between church and state tend to either be blurred or non-existent.
 
FluffyNinja said:
Well you're not talking about God or the Christ that I know. You're talking about rotten, corrupted people who claim to be followers of Christ but whose actions obviously don't show evidence of that. Like I said, Christ promises a terrible judgment for those who exhibit iniquity while professing His name.
If you're talking strictly about "immunity" from the judgments of men, then as far as modern Christianity goes, I would vehemently disagree. In what nations are Christian leaders immune from the law?

I cant speak for Islam....in most Islamic states the lines between church and state tend to either be blurred or non-existent.
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The punishment god promises is in the afterlife, though. Too often, they escape judgment here.

The countries where crimes by agents of faith have been excused or ignored by the religious community and by the public are numerous. The USA is one. Remember when Catholic priests were discovered to have been moved from parish to parish to escape their past?
 
The effect reading the Bible had on me was to increase my esteem for the Jews, while I remained a Christian. I saw Jesus and his disciples as Jews in a Jewish setting.
 
D_NATURED said:
The punishment god promises is in the afterlife, though. Too often, they escape judgment here.

The countries where crimes by agents of faith have been excused or ignored by the religious community and by the public are numerous. The USA is one. Remember when Catholic priests were discovered to have been moved from parish to parish to escape their past?
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Oh I am in total agreement! I will certainly not take a stand to defend the actions of organized religion. It is disgusting and indefensible. What organized religion has attempted to do while "hiding behind" Christ's Gospel is an abomination. I've stated time and time again that I am no fan of organized religion or of religiosity. I find it shameful that in the interest of trying to hide their own selfishness and shameful acts, many church leaders have, in the process, railroaded real Christian Faith. Islam is much worse; in many cases Imams don't even attempt to hide or rationalize their atrocities....rather, they relish in them.

I understand why it occurs, however I do feel that is grossly unfair to judge Christ's message and the faith of all followers based on the actions of some selfish, disgusting church leaders.
 
FluffyNinja said:
Oh I am in total agreement! I will certainly not take a stand to defend the actions of organized religion. It is disgusting and indefensible. What organized religion has attempted to do while "hiding behind" Christ's Gospel is an abomination. I've stated time and time again that I am no fan of organized religion or of religiosity. I find it shameful that in the interest of trying to hide their own selfishness and shameful acts, many church leaders have, in the process, railroaded real Christian Faith. Islam is much worse; in many cases Imams don't even attempt to hide or rationalize their atrocities....rather, they relish in them.

I understand why it occurs, however I do feel that is grossly unfair to judge Christ's message and the faith of all followers based on the actions of some selfish, disgusting church leaders.
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I can't take much, if any, exception to what you wrote. I would say, though, that Christ's message has been a matter of interpretation over the centuries. I'm glad that you interpret it the way you do, if the result is as positive as you seem about your faith. My reading of the bible left me with the impression that Jesus didn't like organized religion either.
 
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