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What is wrong with Birth Control?

phattonez said:
Neither of these links differentiate poverty from overpopulation growth. In fact this quote from the second link is ludicrous:



They try to blame high birth rates on infant-mortality rates, which is utter nonsense. Family size was far higher in the past than it is now. This is not comparing just fertility rates, but actual family size. The idea that the two-child family was ever the ideal is completely ahistorical.
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Your argument does not follow, or counter the pattern found. It has been found that pattern exists, and is very well documented. The places with higher infant mortality have higher birth rates all over the world.

That pattern was discovered many decades ago, and has never been shown not to be the case.

The Link between Infant Mortality and Birth Rates–The Importance of Breastfeeding as a Common Factor - HANSON - 2008 - Acta Paediatrica - Wiley Online Library
 
RAMOSS said:
Your argument does not follow, or counter the pattern found. It has been found that pattern exists, and is very well documented. The places with higher infant mortality have higher birth rates all over the world.

That pattern was discovered many decades ago, and has never been shown not to be the case.

The Link between Infant Mortality and Birth Rates–The Importance of Breastfeeding as a Common Factor - HANSON - 2008 - Acta Paediatrica - Wiley Online Library
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Because places that can afford contraceptives can also afford better infant and pre-natal health care.
 
phattonez said:
Because places that can afford contraceptives can also afford better infant and pre-natal health care.
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That is partly the reason. It certainly is a factor. However, that pattern was seen long before we had effective birth control.
 
RAMOSS said:
That is partly the reason. It certainly is a factor. However, that pattern was seen long before we had effective birth control.
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How long back? Because condoms were around even before the pill was introduced in the '60s.
 
phattonez said:
How long back? Because condoms were around even before the pill was introduced in the '60s.
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That pattern was acknowledged and referred to in the 1950's, which predates the pill. I do not know at what point
 
Riveroaks said:
Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free?

Girlies should not be giving it away before marriage.

Boyz should not be treating girlies like whores.

It's all bad.

After marriage then it becomes a different issue. Catholic families are traditionally large.

If you can't afford a large family then you are not supposed to boink -- that's what St. Paul said.

However I can't believe he did not know about all the other ways too.
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I had an XO tell me this once, when he was questioning whether I had sex with my husband before we got married. It was during the meeting that he wanted with me that happened right after we got married. Do you realize how stupid that phrase actually is? The vast majority of married people had sex with each other prior to getting married. At one time, having sex with someone that you didn't pay for it basically meant you were married.
 
roguenuke said:
I had an XO tell me this once, when he was questioning whether I had sex with my husband before we got married. It was during the meeting that he wanted with me that happened right after we got married. Do you realize how stupid that phrase actually is? The vast majority of married people had sex with each other prior to getting married. At one time, having sex with someone that you didn't pay for it basically meant you were married.
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I know I know.

It's like the old joke:

A future father in law asked his future son in law at the wedding,

"Well are you going to be a man and do it tonight or a mouse and to it tomorrow nite?"

The groom replied:

"I guess that makes me a rat sir -- I already did it."

:)
 
tarheel said:
I am lost on this - I know what the Catholic Church says 'about it' - but that doesn't explain *what* is actually wrong with using birth control to not get pregnant until you're ready when married.

Explain - in ways the Church hasn't tried to.

Do Catholics all agree with the Church's view are are there those who are Catholics who still use birth control eventhough they're told not to?

How does the Catholic Church view these parisioners who go against their 'authority' on the matter?
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GREAT POST and I'm sorry you got canned for whatever reason.....

The only thing that can end abortion is Preventative Pregnancy. I'm a born and raised Christian, I know I'm not supposed to have hormones. Hormones are Science and strong.

So why do we ban birth control then JUDGE later?
 
Divergent said:
GREAT POST and I'm sorry you got canned for whatever reason.....

The only thing that can end abortion is Preventative Pregnancy. I'm a born and raised Christian, I know I'm not supposed to have hormones. Hormones are Science and strong.

So why do we ban birth control then JUDGE later?
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there are very few religions that do not support birth control there are just a lot of people in those religions.
I have no issue with birth control and I am Christian as well.

I am just not catholic or Mormon those are two of the biggest that I know of.
 
roguenuke said:
I had an XO tell me this once, when he was questioning whether I had sex with my husband before we got married. It was during the meeting that he wanted with me that happened right after we got married. Do you realize how stupid that phrase actually is? The vast majority of married people had sex with each other prior to getting married. At one time, having sex with someone that you didn't pay for it basically meant you were married.
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Actually that is how God see's marriage.
if you notice in the bible that sex is the mark of marriage. you can have all the ceremonies you want, but the act of sex is
in which the marriage is certified.

It is stated in Genesis as to when marriage happens.
 
ludin said:
Actually that is how God see's marriage.
if you notice in the bible that sex is the mark of marriage. you can have all the ceremonies you want, but the act of sex is
in which the marriage is certified.

It is stated in Genesis as to when marriage happens.
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I'm aware of that. However others believe differently. Again it isn't your place to tell others what they should or shouldn't believe.
 
roguenuke said:
I'm aware of that. However others believe differently. Again it isn't your place to tell others what they should or shouldn't believe.
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Yet you feel the need to tell us to believe that we shouldn't tell others what to believe. Isn't that hypocrisy?
 
roguenuke said:
I'm aware of that. However others believe differently. Again it isn't your place to tell others what they should or shouldn't believe.
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then why are you here? get over it if you don't like the response.
you don't like the biblical view on marriage then don't ask.
 
phattonez said:
Yet you feel the need to tell us to believe that we shouldn't tell others what to believe. Isn't that hypocrisy?
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yep pretty much but she doesn't see it that way.
 
tarheel said:
I am lost on this - I know what the Catholic Church says 'about it' - but that doesn't explain *what* is actually wrong with using birth control to not get pregnant until you're ready when married.

Explain - in ways the Church hasn't tried to.

Do Catholics all agree with the Church's view are are there those who are Catholics who still use birth control eventhough they're told not to?

How does the Catholic Church view these parisioners who go against their 'authority' on the matter?
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Good question and I can answer it...


Just because the Catholic organization has a stance one something does not mean it is right.... and that is true for every catholic. Catholic church tries it's best to have a strong foundation of morals and reach moral conclusions to the best of their ability as a community. And tradition/preserving the culture has a lot to do with things too.

But nothing the church or even the pope saying is infallible... EXCEPT when the Pope makes an infallible statement(Which hasn't happened since the 30s)

So think of the catholic community as some sort of government where all the priests and bishops come to agreement through extensive study and tradition on how to move forward with what they practice and preach.

Catholicism is something that changes and grows.


-I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school.
 
celticwar17 said:
Good question and I can answer it...


Just because the Catholic organization has a stance one something does not mean it is right
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Actually it does.

.... and that is true for every catholic. Catholic church tries it's best to have a strong foundation of morals and reach moral conclusions to the best of their ability as a community. And tradition/preserving the culture has a lot to do with things too.

But nothing the church or even the pope saying is infallible... EXCEPT when the Pope makes an infallible statement(Which hasn't happened since the 30s)
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That's frankly nonsense. Infallibility is broader than the narrow pigeon-hole you are putting it into. The pope was speaking infallibly in Humanae Vitae. There can be no dissent on this issue. Pope Paul VI merely reiterated what was said in Casti Connubii.

So think of the catholic community as some sort of government where all the priests and bishops come to agreement through extensive study and tradition on how to move forward with what they practice and preach.

Catholicism is something that changes and grows.
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Absolutely false. Church teaching on faith and morals cannot change. Something that was held true before can never be denied in the future. Doctrines may get developed more specifically, like what happened with transsubstantiation, but never what was affirmed in the past can be denied in the future.

-I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic school.
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It doesn't seem that they taught you the Catholic faith very well.
 
phattonez said:
Church teaching on faith and morals cannot change. Something that was held true before can never be denied in the future. Doctrines may get developed more specifically, like what happened with transsubstantiation, but never what was affirmed in the past can be denied in the future.
.
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Hence the reason why religion is rubbish. Scientific theories change over time. The fact that bronze age logic is used in today's debate is laughable.


phattonez said:
It doesn't seem that they taught you the Catholic faith very well.
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Lovely country club mentality. In your opinion, there is an omniscient, all powerful creator, that transcends human understanding. If that creator transcends your understanding, since you're human, how can you deny somebody else's opinion, since they would be as valid as yours, to an all powerful creator? Logic fail.
 
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le bouffon said:
Hence the reason why religion is rubbish. Scientific theories change over time. The fact that bronze age logic is used in today's debate is laughable.
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Theories change, but what was true then it just as true today.

Lovely country club mentality. In your opinion, there is an omniscient, all powerful creator, that transcends human understanding. If that creator transcends your understanding, since you're human, how can you deny somebody else's opinion, since they would be as valid as yours, to an all powerful creator? Logic fail.
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Opinions are not equally valid. There is only one truth.
 
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