The New Testament misinterpreting the Old Testament

Logicman · Jun 24, 2015

Somerville said:
Hey! Can I play? Who cares, I'll answer anyway
Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah because:
1.Jesus did not fulfill the messianic prophecies.
2.Jesus did not embody the personal qualifications of the Messiah.
3.Biblical verses "referring" to Jesus are mistranslations.
4.Jewish belief is based on national revelation

1. Bad argument. History hasn't wrapped up yet. Jesus is expected to complete the Messianic prophesies beginning with the 2nd Coming.

3. Example?

Also, you had: "The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon (the adoption excuse is not acceptable)."

You err because you do not know who the Messiah is supposed to be - God ("THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS," Jeremiah 23:5-6)! So he had to be adopted, and that makes Jesus from the Tribe of Judah and a descendant of King David.

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah as God Even Jewish Rabbis understood that, as you can see in the link.

As for Solomon,

From 1 Kings 11:9-13 - The LORD became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the LORD's command. So the LORD said to Solomon, "Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen."

As Dr. Michael L. Brown concludes in his book, "Solomon did not meet God’s conditions, and his throne was not established forever. It is the Throne of David’s which was to meet the condition." (Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, Vol. 4, pages 90-91)

So nice try, Somerville!

RAMOSS · Jun 24, 2015

Logicman said:
Same, tired old arguments that have no merit. I'll pick three of them and get back to you later.

Gosh, it seems like 'let's hand wave the Jewish arguments away, and 'I'll get back'. I bet the arguments will be from Christians denying the Jewish interpretation of their own scripture, from some dishonest source, such as Mike Brown, or some other evangelistic source that distorts what is written.

RAMOSS · Jun 24, 2015

Logicman said:
1. Bad argument. History hasn't wrapped up yet. Jesus is expected to complete the Messianic prophesies beginning with the 2nd Coming.

3. Example?

Also, you had: "The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon (the adoption excuse is not acceptable)."

You err because you do not know who the Messiah is supposed to be - God ("THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS," Jeremiah 23:5-6)! So he had to be adopted, and that makes Jesus from the Tribe of Judah and a descendant of King David.

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah as God Even Jewish Rabbis understood that, as you can see in the link.

As for Solomon,

From 1 Kings 11:9-13 - The LORD became angry with Solomon because his heart had turned away from the LORD, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. Although he had forbidden Solomon to follow other gods, Solomon did not keep the LORD's command. So the LORD said to Solomon, "Since this is your attitude and you have not kept my covenant and my decrees, which I commanded you, I will most certainly tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your subordinates. Nevertheless, for the sake of David your father, I will not do it during your lifetime. I will tear it out of the hand of your son. Yet I will not tear the whole kingdom from him, but will give him one tribe for the sake of David my servant and for the sake of Jerusalem, which I have chosen."

As Dr. Michael L. Brown concludes in his book, "Solomon did not meet God’s conditions, and his throne was not established forever. It is the Throne of David’s which was to meet the condition." (Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus, Vol. 4, pages 90-91)

So nice try, Somerville!

Figures that he would go from a source that is a fraud, and has been busted a thousand times. As for the Jewish throne.. it has to be through the unbroken male line.. something that is ignored by Mr Brown, and his preaching ways. Someone who gives false information repeated is not a very credible source.

If you go by the Christian scriptures, Jesus would not qualify, since he allegedly had no earthly father, and it is through the male line (no adoptions, no leverite marriages, but through biological father to biological father) that the qualifications to the house of David is found.
'

Logicman · Jun 24, 2015

RAMOSS said:
Figures that he would go from a source that is a fraud, and has been busted a thousand times. As for the Jewish throne.. it has to be through the unbroken male line.. something that is ignored by Mr Brown, and his preaching ways. Someone who gives false information repeated is not a very credible source.

If you go by the Christian scriptures, Jesus would not qualify, since he allegedly had no earthly father, and it is through the male line (no adoptions, no leverite marriages, but through biological father to biological father) that the qualifications to the house of David is found.
'

Ramoss, give it up. It's clear you haven't a clue about it all. You won't even admit who God is, so what would you really know?

RAMOSS · Jun 24, 2015

Logicman said:
Ramoss, give it up. It's clear you haven't a clue about it all.

And here you told me I was on ignore. I am disappointed in you, that you can't keep a promise. I noticed you went and made a flippant remark at me, rather than actually address the point at hand.

Logicman · Jun 24, 2015

RAMOSS said:
And here you told me I was on ignore. I am disappointed in you, that you can't keep a promise. I noticed you went and made a flippant remark at me, rather than actually address the point at hand.

It wasn't a promise. You were on Ignore and now you're not. You won't be able to skate around here with impunity with your false, unbiblical arguments. And I'll address what I want and when I want. It's not up to you.

RAMOSS · Jun 24, 2015

Logicman said:
It wasn't a promise. You were on Ignore and now you're not. You won't be able to skate around here with impunity with your false, unbiblical arguments. And I'll address what I want and when I want. It's not up to you.

Awe, darn, and here I thought I woudn't have to put up with your false accusations against me. Oh well, you still are a good foil to point out what the truth really is.. so I can correct your misinformation.

Excon · Jun 25, 2015

Logicman said:
Horse manure.

Yes that is what your postings are, which has been shown by all those who have refuted them.

Logicman said:
You don't know what you're talking about.

As repeatedly shown in this sub-forum, that would be you.

You even go on to show in reply to others that you know exactly what I am speaking about which only validates the claim that you are being dishonest in your reply to me.

Logicman said:
1. Bad argument. History hasn't wrapped up yet. Jesus is expected to complete the Messianic prophesies beginning with the 2nd Coming.

3. Example?

Also, you had: "The Messiah must be from the Tribe of Judah and a Descendant of King David AND King Solomon (the adoption excuse is not acceptable)."

You err because you do not know who the Messiah is supposed to be - God ("THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS," Jeremiah 23:5-6)! So he had to be adopted, and that makes Jesus from the Tribe of Judah and a descendant of King David.

Jeremiah 23:5-6 - The Messiah as God Even Jewish Rabbis understood that, as you can see in the link.

The fact is that you err, repeatedly. Your answer in no way refutes the fact that the adoption excuse does not fly.

All you provided was a delusional Cristian response and just shows your ignorance of the Jewish requirements for the Mashiach (Anointed). Who would be a human, not a G_d or demi-god.

Christians do not determine if a person has met the Jewish requirements to be Mashiach, nor do they get to twist the requirements of fulfillment by saying they will be fulfilled in some future return.

Logicman · Jun 25, 2015

Excon said:
Yes that is what your postings are, which has been shown by all those who have refuted them.

In your dreams.

Excon said:
The fact is that you err, repeatedly. Your answer in no way refutes the fact that the adoption excuse does not fly.

All you provided was a delusional Cristian response and just shows your ignorance of the Jewish requirements for the Mashiach (Anointed). Who would be a human, not a G_d or demi-god.

Christians do not determine if a person has met the Jewish requirements to be Mashiach, nor do they get to twist the requirements of fulfillment by saying they will be fulfilled in some future return.

<chuckle>

If this is the best you can do you can forget being a credible apologist for your views.

You've provided zero evidence for your position and have instead just engaged in meaningless bluster.

Excon · Jun 25, 2015

Logicman said:
In your dreams.

That would be in your dreams, which has been shown by all those who have refuted them.

Logicman said:
If this is the best you can do you can forget being a credible apologist for your views.

You've provided zero evidence for your position and have instead just engaged in meaningless bluster.

Pointing out the facts is not providing zero evidence.
Pointing out that your xtian apologist position fails, just shows you are the one providing the bluster.

tosca1 · Jun 25, 2015

Excon said:
And again since you obviously do not pay attention.

:doh
Are you really trying to play dumb like you do not know the arguments that he does not fit the criteria?

So you keep saying. :lol:

They have never been refuted. That would be becasue they can't be.

What can't be refuted? Be specific. Like what? Give one. :lol:

The concept of the Mashiach is Jewish. They set the criteria of who fits that title and who does not, not others that usurped the concept for their own.
As it is, by the Jewish requirements he does not fit the requirements. You nor anyone else gets to say otherwise.

Well, yeah we can!
Where do you think the description of the Messiah came from?
Who do you think is sending the Messiah anyway - the Jews, or God? :lamo

I do not need to explain something you already know. Do you really not understand that?

I know what I know. But I do not know what you know. That's why I want you to explain! :lamo

tosca1 · Jun 25, 2015

Excon said:
I do not need to explain something you already know. Do you really not understand that?

So, who do they say is the Messiah?

Excon · Jun 25, 2015

tosca1 said:
Where do you think the description of the Messiah came from? Who's sending the Messiah - the Jews or God?
You nor anyone else gets to say otherwise.

:doh
The concept of the Mashiach is Jewish.
It was for the Jewish people and for the Jewish people.
Even the concept of the Jewish Mashiach is different than the xtian Messiah/savior.
That just shows what I originally stated.

"The biggest misinterpretation from the old to the new is the usurpation of the Jewish Messiah. Attributing that title to a man who does not fit the criteria is obscene."

You can pretend not to know the arguments all you want, but you are not fooling anyone.

tosca1 · Jun 25, 2015

Excon said:
:doh
The concept of the Mashiach is Jewish.
It was for the Jewish people and for the Jewish people.

:doh

You keep saying, "concept of the Messiah is Jewish."

Are you saying the Jews made up the concept of the Messiah? That info didn't come from God?

Well....I agree with you on that. What they believe is man-made concept.

That's always been the problem with the Jews....as shown in the Old Testament.

THEY. DON'T. LISTEN.

tosca1 · Jun 25, 2015

Excon said:
:doh
The concept of the Mashiach is Jewish.
It was for the Jewish people and for the Jewish people.
Even the concept of the Jewish Mashiach is different than the xtian Messiah/savior.
That just shows what I originally stated.

"The biggest misinterpretation from the old to the new is the usurpation of the Jewish Messiah. Attributing that title to a man who does not fit the criteria is obscene."

You can pretend not to know the arguments all you want, but you are not fooling anyone.

Who do they say is the Messiah?

Why are you avoiding that question? Answer.

Excon · Jun 25, 2015

tosca1 said:
You keep saying, "concept of the Messiah is Jewish."

Are you saying the Jews made up the concept of the Messiah? That info didn't come from God?

Well....I agree with you on that. What they believe is man-made concept.

That's always been the problem with the Jews....as shown in the Old Testament.

THEY. DON'T. LISTEN.

:naughty
That would be the problem of your and xtian belief.

tosca1 said:
Answer.

:lamo:lamo:lamo:lamo

tosca1 · Jun 25, 2015

Excon said:
:naughty
That would be the problem of your and xtian belief.

:lamo:lamo:lamo

See? I was right!
You can't give anything specific to support what you've spouted off.

Excon · Jun 25, 2015

tosca1 said:
See? I was right!
You can't give anything specific to support what you've spouted off.

So you are still playing at not knowing the arguments as to why he doesn't qualify. Figures.

ludin · Jun 25, 2015

tosca1 said:
Who do they say is the Messiah?

Why are you avoiding that question? Answer.

That kinda goes hand in hand in a way and one of the biggest rifts between Judaism and Christianity.
one recognized Christ for who he was and the other is still waiting but missed him.

there have been some converts in the jewish society.

other religions don't recognize CHrist for who he was either which I think is going to be an issue when it comes judgment day.

Logicman · Jun 27, 2015

Excon said:
So you are still playing at not knowing the arguments as to why he doesn't qualify. Figures.

Christianity was started by the Jews, so it is Jewish. It's the fulfillment of Old Testament Judaism. Which is why your basic argument is not compelling.

RAMOSS · Jun 27, 2015

Logicman said:
Christianity was started by the Jews, so it is Jewish. It's the fulfillment of Old Testament Judaism. Which is why your basic argument is not compelling.

Except, of course, it was corrupted by the Greek concepts , and therefore has many pagan elements, such as thinking the God could become a man, or a man could be God.

Logicman · Jun 28, 2015

RAMOSS said:
Except, of course, it was corrupted by the Greek concepts , and therefore has many pagan elements, such as thinking the God could become a man, or a man could be God.

You're behind the curve on this, Ramoss. God was always supposed to appear as a man (Jeremiah 23:5-6, etc.).

Excon · Jun 28, 2015

Logicman said:
Christianity was started by the Jews, so it is Jewish. It's the fulfillment of Old Testament Judaism.

:lamo:lamo:lamo
Is that what you think?
iLOL
:doh

Though supposedly started by a Jew (Jesus teaching Jews how to better be Jewish), that was changed and has since morphed into something of it's own much different from that of it's origins. And no, it is not a fulfillment of any kind, neither by, from or in Jesús.

Which is why your arguments have never been compelling.

RAMOSS · Jun 28, 2015

Logicman said:
You're behind the curve on this, Ramoss. God was always supposed to appear as a man (Jeremiah 23:5-6, etc.).

Oh , don't be so ridiculous. A king is not a God. This is what is written in Jeremiah 23 5-6

Behold, days are coming, says the Lord, when I will set up of David a righteous shoot, and he shall reign a king and prosper, and he shall perform judgment and righteousness in the land

In his days, Judah shall be saved and Israel shall dwell safely, and this is his name that he shall be called, The Lord is our righteousness.

Now, it is the tradition that many Jewish people have names that give a description of God.. or a trait from God. Hezekiah, for example, means God our Might, or Mighty God. Isaiah means 'God is our salvation'. Does that mean Hezehiah was God?? Nope. Does that means Isaiah is God, Nope. Nor does that mean that King will be god either.

So, I would think that you should stop being so uneducated, and you should actually try to learn something. I suspect that will happen about 10 years after the New World order has just one country in the world.

Logicman · Jun 28, 2015

Excon said:
Is that what you think?

You bet.

Excon said:
Though supposedly started by a Jew (Jesus teaching Jews how to better be Jewish), that was changed and has since morphed into something of it's own much different from that of it's origins. And no, it is not a fulfillment of any kind, neither by, from or in Jesús.

Nonsense.