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Thread: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

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    Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    This is a continuation of the interesting discussion started with Grand Mal in the other thread. How mankind got the concept of right and wrong.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/religi...-203-a-20.html




    I'd like to respond to his statement:

    Grand Mal
    I'd like to say that it was acquiring the knowledge of good and evil that got Adam and Eve evicted from the Garden, that learning the difference was the original sin. They had been told not to.

    It's disobedience that got them evicted from the garden.



    Genesis 3
    17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,

    “Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat food from it
    all the days of your life.
    18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
    and you will eat the plants of the field.
    19 By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
    for dust you are
    and to dust you will return.”




    Furthermore, that would mean you're taking the narrative literally. Remember, you believe it's not supposed to be taken literally.


    Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    The story in Genesis about the Garden of Eden, that's a creation myth. Like all creation myths it has a moral built into it but it was never meant to be taken literally.


    God had already decided to make man in His image BEFORE He created Adam. Therefore, the morality of God had been bestowed in man before they ate from the tree.



    Genesis 1
    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.




    Also, even when you take it literally.... if it's the tree of knowledge that gave mankind the concept of good and evil (because they ate from the tree).....well, who created the tree of knowledge? God.
    Therefore, that also supports my stance that, without God, mankind wouldn't have the concept of right and wrong.
    Last edited by tosca1; 03-20-15 at 09:35 PM.

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    Re: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by tosca1 View Post
    This is a continuation of the interesting discussion started with Grand Mal in the other thread. How mankind got the concept of right and wrong.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/religi...-203-a-20.html




    I'd like to respond to his statement:




    It's disobedience that got them evicted from the garden.



    Genesis 3
    17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,

    “Cursed is the ground because of you;
    through painful toil you will eat food from it
    all the days of your life.
    18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
    and you will eat the plants of the field.
    19 By the sweat of your brow
    you will eat your food
    until you return to the ground,
    since from it you were taken;
    for dust you are
    and to dust you will return.”




    Furthermore, that would mean you're taking the narrative literally. Remember, you believe it's not supposed to be taken literally.






    God had already decided to make man in His image BEFORE He created Adam. Therefore, the morality of God had been bestowed in man before they ate from the tree.



    Genesis 1
    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.




    Also, even when you take it literally.... if it's the tree of knowledge that gave mankind the concept of good and evil (because they ate from the tree).....well, who created the tree of knowledge? God.
    Therefore, that also supports my stance that, without God, mankind wouldn't have the concept of right and wrong.
    No, I don't take it literally. It's a story, a creation myth and it's a damn good one, too.
    It wasn't the tree of knowledge that was forbidden, it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. They were forbidden to learn of good and evil and were evicted from the garden so they wouldn't eat from the tree of life, not to punish their disobedience. It was to protect the tree of life that the way back into the garden was guarded.
    Odd, wasn't it, what God said in Genesis 3:22. What did He mean when He said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil..."
    All of this means that it's despite God that we know the difference between good and evil, not because of Him.
    The eye through which you see God is the same eye through which God sees you.
    -Jalal al-din Rumi-

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    Re: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    When God says "One of us", who might the rest of "us" be?
    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

    "We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation." ..François-Marie Arouet. French philosopher. 1694 - 1778.

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    Re: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    Adam and Eve were meant to Fall. If they had not entered mortality they would not have had offspring, and they would have stayed innocent and not have the ability to know good and evil. They nor we their offspring could not then eventually become like our Heavenly Parents and achieve exaltation and achieve an infinite fullness of joy. Think of it like this, if a person has never tasted bitter, they cannot know the taste of sweet. Staying innocent like an infant baby, while we may not know misery, we cannot know joy either. Our Heavenly Parents want us to grow up and become like Them, to know good and evil, and use our free agency to hopefully choose good and the path to a fullness of joy. The Plan of Salvation put forth by our Heavenly Father in the pre-mortal world and accepted by all of us who have been born on this earth, is that we would Fall and go through an earthly mortality where we will sin and make mistakes, but as we taste the bitterness of sin we will have the ability to use our free agency to overcome sin through embracing the authorized gospel of Christ and Christ's Atonement. If Adam and Eve had not fallen, God's plan would have been frustrated, so they had to fall. Eve fell because she was tricked by the serpent, Adam, who was the great Michael the archangel in the pre-mortal world, chose to Fall because he knew he had to. These two of the most noble souls of God's family got the ball rolling for all of us. The reason why the tree of life was guarded is because if they or any of their posterity ate the fruit of it while in their mortal or fallen state, they would have lived forever in that fallen state. Which would have been a curse. Death in mortality is a blessing, as this temporal body that has inherited decay returns to dust. It is in the resurrection when we inherit a perfect incorruptible body that we are meant to live forever in.

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    Re: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    What makes the Genesis account confusing to many people is that both God and the serpent, in this one incident, shared the same goal. Both wanted Adam and Eve to Fall. One so that they could achieve a fulness of joy, and the other in hope he could lead them to eternal misery. They had to get off the fence though. So the serpent tempted Eve with the truth that she could become like God if she broke the commandment and Fall by partaking of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

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    Re: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    When God says "One of us", who might the rest of "us" be?
    The LDS Book of Moses Ch 4 states:

    28 And I, the Lord God, said unto mine Only Begotten: Behold, the man is become as one of us to know good and evil; and now lest he put forth his hand and partake also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever,

    29 Therefore I, the Lord God, will send him forth from the Garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken;

    So it looks like it was God the Father speaking to the pre-mortal Jesus.

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    Re: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    When God says "One of us", who might the rest of "us" be?
    All the angels of heaven, Micheal, Gabriel, etc, to include the nephilim and Lucifer as well.

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    Re: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    Additional parts of the Genesis account that had been lost to mankind was restored through the prophet Joseph Smith. It helps clarify the Biblical account:

    Several days after Adam and Eve had been banished from the garden.
    Moses Ch 5:
    6 And after many days an angel of the Lord appeared unto Adam, saying: Why dost thou offer sacrifices unto the Lord? And Adam said unto him: I know not, save the Lord commanded me.
    7 And then the angel spake, saying: This thing is asimilitude of the sacrifice of the Only Begotten of the Father, which is full of grace and truth.
    8 Wherefore, thou shalt do all that thou doest in the nameof the Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God in the name of the Son forevermore.
    9 And in that day the Holy Ghost fell upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father and the Son, saying: I am theOnly Begotten of the Father from the beginning, henceforth and forever, that as thou hast fallen thou mayest be redeemed, and all mankind, even as many as will.
    10 And in that day Adam blessed God and was filled, and began to prophesy concerning all the families of the earth, saying: Blessed be the name of God, for because of mytransgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.
    11 And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.
    12 And Adam and Eve blessed the name of God, and they made all things known unto their sons and their daughters.

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    Re: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    When God says "One of us", who might the rest of "us" be?
    According to the Jewish commentary, he is talking to the 'cherubim'i.e. the angels. I personally think it is a left over from the fact that many of the ancient Jewish stories were adapted from other religions that were polytheistic. A number of people have proposed that different Mesopotamian myths were the source of the Garden of Eden stories. I find that plausible but not yet proven. The Cherubim are then given the task to make sure that Adam and Eve don't go back into the garden. Since the Garden has never been found, they must be doing a bang up job of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hannah Arendt
    "The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the convinced Communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction (i.e., the reality of experience) and the distinction between true and false (i.e., the standards of thought) no longer exist."

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    Re: Biblical Tree of Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    ...All of this means that it's despite God that we know the difference between good and evil, not because of Him.
    God set the whole thing up, that means it's because of God, not despite God.

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