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Life vs. Afterlife

Do you not think it important to state, what God you are referring to, when you are talking about his preferences?

there is only one god
 
there is only one god


Some people say there is at most one god.. if that many.

Others seem to think there are multiple gods.

Other say "I don't know what you mean when you use the term GOD"
 
Some people say there is at most one god.. if that many.

Others seem to think there are multiple gods.

Other say "I don't know what you mean when you use the term GOD"

I say that God is whatever you want it to be.

It can be multiple deities that most Christians worship (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Gost, plus Mary the Mother, Satin, and all of the special angels and profits and Popes, and Saints), it can be any entity that you believe has powers greater than humans do, it can be mother nature, science, physics, ones self, or the tooth fairy.

God exists, but it exists mostly in our minds, and may be unique to every creature that has ever been alive.
 
Moderator's Warning:
Don't be deliberately obtuse, folks. It borders on trolling. It is rather widely known that Medusa is Muslim, therefore a reasonable assumption that she is referring to Allah when she says God. If you don't know you can ask, but there's no need to belabor the point.
 
Do you feel your current life is punishment?

Sometimes. Depends on whether or not I've taken my meds. Regarding Buddhism, my understanding is that you move up or down the totem pole of rebirth depending on your karmic alignment. You can be reborn as a god, or you can be reborn as a pig. Even as a god, you are still in a state of suffering unless you escape the cycle completely.

It could be said that Nirvana is a final death. And indeed, Nirvana means 'blown out', like extinguishing a candle flame.
 
Sometimes. Depends on whether or not I've taken my meds.

LOL! Yeah, as fortunate as I have been this time around there have been times when I was certain that my guardian angel had a drinking problem. It is perhaps safe to say that we all feel that way from time to time. No one is exempt.

Regarding Buddhism, my understanding is that you move up or down the totem pole of rebirth depending on your karmic alignment. You can be reborn as a god, or you can be reborn as a pig. Even as a god, you are still in a state of suffering unless you escape the cycle completely.

I'm not a follower of the rebirth as animals and the like. But I do believe that rebirth is not arbitrary. What would be the point? Up or down? Perhaps, but then again not in all ways. We do make progress over lifetimes, though maybe not each lifetime.

Let's throw Hitler's name in here at this point. Do I believe that Hitler, or the essence that was Hitler, will eventually be enlightened? Yes. If all things are "God" or "God" is all things then the essence that was Hitler is certainly included in "all". So was Hitler a world class asshole in previous lives? I don't know. Was the Hitler life a monumental roll of the dice in which the essence screwed the pooch? Could be. I know that whatever happened I am grateful that I didn't have to learn whatever lesson that was in that fashion.

We all suffer and I don't know that we can or should compare our sufferings other than to find strength in getting beyond the suffering.

It could be said that Nirvana is a final death. And indeed, Nirvana means 'blown out', like extinguishing a candle flame.

I interpret it to mean the complete and final ending of the illusion of self.
 
Sometimes. Depends on whether or not I've taken my meds. Regarding Buddhism, my understanding is that you move up or down the totem pole of rebirth depending on your karmic alignment. You can be reborn as a god, or you can be reborn as a pig. Even as a god, you are still in a state of suffering unless you escape the cycle completely.
.

My thoughts on reincarnation are probably closer to Hindu beliefs than Buddhist beliefs, but have a bit of a mystical/ metaphysical bent, due to my own personal experiences and exposure in young adulthood. I don't believe in the reincarnation from animal-human-animal etc. My concept is more of a continuous progression of an individual soul in human form, until there is no longer anything to gain here. Iow, "I" , as I know it, is a constant, which is in a continual state of evolution and progression. Progress will always be made- it just depends on how and what I am learning at any given point in time, and how hung-up I become. There is absolutely no pressure, but progress is the natural state of being. We are always "becoming". It can be quite painful at times, but I see that as a sign of progress and learning, and that most humans learn best from painful experiences. The trick is not to let it become bitterness and hatred. There is a LOT of that going on in this world.
 
If someone truly believes that they could face either an eternity of joy and bliss or an eternity of suffering and pain, based on adherence to some religious precepts for less than a century... well, which is more "important" gets a bit fuzzy. At first, the part that will last for eternity is more important. You could literally sleep through this life and it wouldn't make a blip in your eternal existence. However, if the entire scope of your eternal life is going to be based on what you do here, then this seems to be the more important part.

But either way, if such an afterlife exists, then we would be insane to do anything other than devote our every waking moment to ensuring that we go to the good eternity and not the bad one. Though I suppose that depends on how hard it is to get into heaven.

We'll assume the Christian heaven because it's more well known and Judaism is kind of fuzzy on afterlives anyway. So, obviously, you don't get in if you're the wrong religion. Fine, so our hypothetical person is a Christian. Does it matter which denomination? A lot of denominations say so, so we also need to make this person the right denomination. I don't know which one that is, and if they contradict each other and proclaim that the others aren't really enough and go to hell (like they did a lot during the reformation), then you have to spend your life figuring out which one it is. This is, of course, after spending your life figuring out if Christianity or Islam is correct.

So then next we have the major sins that you can't ever do. Obviously, the more violent ones are easier to avoid. But what about the internal ones? How much coveting is okay during one lifetime? How many lustful thoughts are you allowed? Does premarital sex automatically send you down the hole? Some people think so, some don't. Gotta figure out which it is, and probably shouldn't have any sex at all until you do. Probably should do everything you can to avoid even thinking about sex. Obviously, you can't be gay.

I actually don't know much more than that about the rules about who does or doesn't get into heaven in any major denominations of Christianity. I don't know what the limitations are on confessing in Catholicism. If you manage to confess all your sins before you die, are you good to go no matter what? Assuming you don't kill yourself or get excommunicated? I don't know how Protestants balance everyday acts of douchebaggery against... whatever makes up for that. Exactly how much of a jerk can you afford to be before you lose your place? Say a man beats his wife exactly three times during his whole life. Is that too much? How about beating up a smaller kid in school? How about getting into a car accident because you were drinking and injuring, but not killing, another person? Where actually are the limits?

If you really believe that there is a forever or joy or of misery on the line, a person should spend their life with no goal in mind other than ensuring that they get the good ending. Because a century means nothing compared to an eternity. I honestly find it very strange that religious people don't act this way. Apparently it was more normal back in the middle ages. Maybe Paleocon actually operates like this. But I've never met someone face to face who did. People who claim to have an afterlife ahead of them seem to be pretty cavalier about it. Maybe the threshold is really that low?
 
If someone truly believes that they could face either an eternity of joy and bliss or an eternity of suffering and pain, based on adherence to some religious precepts for less than a century... well, which is more "important" gets a bit fuzzy. At first, the part that will last for eternity is more important. You could literally sleep through this life and it wouldn't make a blip in your eternal existence. However, if the entire scope of your eternal life is going to be based on what you do here, then this seems to be the more important part.

But either way, if such an afterlife exists, then we would be insane to do anything other than devote our every waking moment to ensuring that we go to the good eternity and not the bad one. Though I suppose that depends on how hard it is to get into heaven.

We'll assume the Christian heaven because it's more well known and Judaism is kind of fuzzy on afterlives anyway. So, obviously, you don't get in if you're the wrong religion. Fine, so our hypothetical person is a Christian. Does it matter which denomination? A lot of denominations say so, so we also need to make this person the right denomination. I don't know which one that is, and if they contradict each other and proclaim that the others aren't really enough and go to hell (like they did a lot during the reformation), then you have to spend your life figuring out which one it is. This is, of course, after spending your life figuring out if Christianity or Islam is correct.

So then next we have the major sins that you can't ever do. Obviously, the more violent ones are easier to avoid. But what about the internal ones? How much coveting is okay during one lifetime? How many lustful thoughts are you allowed? Does premarital sex automatically send you down the hole? Some people think so, some don't. Gotta figure out which it is, and probably shouldn't have any sex at all until you do. Probably should do everything you can to avoid even thinking about sex. Obviously, you can't be gay.

I actually don't know much more than that about the rules about who does or doesn't get into heaven in any major denominations of Christianity. I don't know what the limitations are on confessing in Catholicism. If you manage to confess all your sins before you die, are you good to go no matter what? Assuming you don't kill yourself or get excommunicated? I don't know how Protestants balance everyday acts of douchebaggery against... whatever makes up for that. Exactly how much of a jerk can you afford to be before you lose your place? Say a man beats his wife exactly three times during his whole life. Is that too much? How about beating up a smaller kid in school? How about getting into a car accident because you were drinking and injuring, but not killing, another person? Where actually are the limits?

If you really believe that there is a forever or joy or of misery on the line, a person should spend their life with no goal in mind other than ensuring that they get the good ending. Because a century means nothing compared to an eternity. I honestly find it very strange that religious people don't act this way. Apparently it was more normal back in the middle ages. Maybe Paleocon actually operates like this. But I've never met someone face to face who did. People who claim to have an afterlife ahead of them seem to be pretty cavalier about it. Maybe the threshold is really that low?

That's because no one comes to faith in that order. You started from the point of view that there is an afterlife. But with the possible exception of people struggling with how to deal with a near death experience, no one reaches faith by first concluding there is an afterlife and only then trying to figure out how to get the best ending. The idea of an afterlife is part of the faith they came to through some other means. So, of course people generally don't spend a great deal of time worrying about that. Their belief in an afterlife is a consequence of their faith, they don't choose their faith as a consequence of having first believed in an afterlife.
 
That's because no one comes to faith in that order. You started from the point of view that there is an afterlife. But with the possible exception of people struggling with how to deal with a near death experience, no one reaches faith by first concluding there is an afterlife and only then trying to figure out how to get the best ending. The idea of an afterlife is part of the faith they came to through some other means. So, of course people generally don't spend a great deal of time worrying about that. Their belief in an afterlife is a consequence of their faith, they don't choose their faith as a consequence of having first believed in an afterlife.

What difference does that make? What does "coming to faith" have to do with the actual requirements to not go to hell? Unless your belief is that all you need for heaven is to have faith, there's more to it than that. Of course, you must also confront the possibility that your faith is wrong and that the requirements are different. Have you done that? What if the Mormons are right and you're going to burn? If you actually think that's a possibility, what are you going to do about it?

This is a non-answer that you have given me here.
 
What difference does that make?

It makes all of the difference. Since it is a consequent belief rather than a basic belief, it is the result of a more basic belief. People believe in the religion they do for other reasons and a belief in the afterlife is a consequence of that belief. Therefore, it doesn't make a lot of sense for people to proceed in the opposite direction and figure out their beliefs based on assumptions about the afterlife. Their conception of the afterlife comes from their basic beliefs, not vice versa.

What does "coming to faith" have to do with the actual requirements to not go to hell? Unless your belief is that all you need for heaven is to have faith, there's more to it than that. Of course, you must also confront the possibility that your faith is wrong and that the requirements are different.

That makes all of the difference. Having come to a certain faith, people put their faith in that faith. Isn't that what the term faith actually implies? They don't put their faith in the afterlife and then work their way backwards to try to figure out what else to put their faith in. They put their faith in their faith and one of the beliefs that comes with that faith may be a belief in an afterlife, which may or may not have certain requirements.

I think it definitely makes sense for people to re-evaluate their beliefs. But not with the kind of unhealthy obsession with the afterlife you propose. Beliefs about the afterlife are consequent beliefs, they should not be the focus of your faith.

Have you done that? What if the Mormons are right and you're going to burn? If you actually think that's a possibility, what are you going to do about it?

Answer the question yourself and maybe this will start to make more sense. Why don't you obsess over the afterlife? Maybe the Catholics or the Mormons are right and you are doomed to eternal punishment. Shouldn't you be obsessing over the afterlife as well? You don't, why? I suspect it is for the same reason that Christians and others also do not do this. Because your beliefs about the afterlife, or lack thereof, are a consequence of your beliefs about God. You don't believe in God, therefore you don't believe in an afterlife, therefore there is nothing to obsess about. It's the exact same thing with people of faith. They believe in a certain religion, that certain religion teaches certain things about the afterlife, so they believe those things about the afterlife, therefore there is nothing to obsess over.
 
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