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Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

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Dragonfly

Dragonfly

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Evangelicals with gay children challenging church

Rob and Linda Robertson did what they believed was expected of them as good Christians.


When their 12-year-old son Ryan said he was gay, they told him they loved him, but he had to change. He entered "reparative therapy," met regularly with his pastor and immersed himself in Bible study and his church youth group. After six years, nothing changed. A despondent Ryan cut off from his parents and his faith, started taking drugs and in 2009, died of an overdose.
"Now we realize we were so wrongly taught," said Rob Robertson, a firefighter for more than 30 years who lives in Redmond, Washington. "It's a horrible, horrible mistake the church has made."
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Such a sad story. On so many levels.
 
I was raised in a very very evangelical conservative Christian home. For many years after I got out I did not go near a Church. I am now a member of a much more liberal church and believe it's attitude toward all sinners, not just homosexuals, seems to be much more like what I think Jesus would want. I cannot understand how the Chruch can be so strongly against the one sin of homosexuality, while seeming to ignore many many others.
Dragonfly said:
Evangelicals with gay children challenging church




Such a sad story. On so many levels.
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Too bad you missed all the positive information--that evangelicals with gay children are causing their fellow churchgoers, their churches, to face this important issue. In so many cases, it's a matter of awareness, and it's always an opportunity to accept the challenge of "Judge not."

Further there are children who grew up in their various churches and who were known and often loved and admired by all who have now grown up and who remain active in those faith communities. There is an enormous difference between who one is and what one does. And at the end of the eternal day, matter of conscience that will be between you and your God.

Like the poor, the ignorant bigots will always be with us. Can you imagine attending a church service with your child and realizing that the stares are because idiot strangers assume that you are your child's sugar daddy or mommie?

Of course, people like this are deserving of pity and prayer and therefore an opportunity for the parent to grow in the Spirit.
 
Do you believe evangelicals are becoming more tolerant? and if so, how?
nota bene said:
Too bad you missed all the positive information--that evangelicals with gay children are causing their fellow churchgoers, their churches, to face this important issue. In so many cases, it's a matter of awareness, and it's always an opportunity to accept the challenge of "Judge not."

Further there are children who grew up in their various churches and who were known and often loved and admired by all who have now grown up and who remain active in those faith communities. There is an enormous difference between who one is and what one does. And at the end of the eternal day, matter of conscience that will be between you and your God.

Like the poor, the ignorant bigots will always be with us. Can you imagine attending a church service with your child and realizing that the stares are because idiot strangers assume that you are your child's sugar daddy or mommie?

Of course, people like this are deserving of pity and prayer and therefore an opportunity for the parent to grow in the Spirit.
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Do you actually know any "evangelicals"? Do you know any with gay children?
 
mak2 said:
I was raised in a very very evangelical conservative Christian home. For many years after I got out I did not go near a Church. I am now a member of a much more liberal church and believe it's attitude toward all sinners, not just homosexuals, seems to be much more like what I think Jesus would want. I cannot understand how the Chruch can be so strongly against the one sin of homosexuality, while seeming to ignore many many others.
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Which is to repent and turn from Your sin ... that's what Jesus want's sinners to do, he want's other People not to judge and condemn, repentance is necessary, celebrating and identifying With Your sin is not repentance.
 
I believe God made gay people gay. Sex out of marriage is sin. So God made these people attracted to other people of the same sex, then we (as a society) wont let them get married so they either have to live a life of misery and sin as Jimmy Carter did, in his mind, or be happier and sin in real life. I can see evangelicals not allowing gay marriage in their church or going to a gay wedding etc, but I cant understand the vehemence with which they politically oppose homosexuality above and beyond all other sins. heck, you guys should be at least as outspoken against Golden Corrall, the gluttony that goes on in that place...
RGacky3 said:
Which is to repent and turn from Your sin ... that's what Jesus want's sinners to do, he want's other People not to judge and condemn, repentance is necessary, celebrating and identifying With Your sin is not repentance.
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mak2 said:
I believe God made gay people gay. Sex out of marriage is sin. So God made these people attracted to other people of the same sex, then we (as a society) wont let them get married so they either have to live a life of misery and sin as Jimmy Carter did, in his mind, or be happier and sin in real life. I can see evangelicals not allowing gay marriage in their church or going to a gay wedding etc, but I cant understand the vehemence with which they politically oppose homosexuality above and beyond all other sins. heck, you guys should be at least as outspoken against Golden Corrall, the gluttony that goes on in that place...
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Did God make Pedophiles as Pedophiles?
Did God made sadists as sadists?
Did he make psychopaths as psychopaths?
Did he make terrorists as terrorists?
Did he make adulterers as adulterers?

Are you going to be consistant?

Of coarse I agree With you, evangelicals very often only focus on gay marriage and ignore the sin of greed and usury With permeates Our entire society, or they ignore the sin of state enforced and mandated violence, and so on, and no fault divorce and the rabid idolatry of profit and celebrity and so on.

But affirming homosexuality, celebrating it and marrying homosexuals goes against everything in the bible, including Jesus' definition of marriage.
 
Gay reparative therapy used on children is child abuse.

Period.

And should be stamped out with the full force of law.
 
mak2 said:
I was raised in a very very evangelical conservative Christian home. For many years after I got out I did not go near a Church. I am now a member of a much more liberal church and believe it's attitude toward all sinners, not just homosexuals, seems to be much more like what I think Jesus would want. I cannot understand how the Chruch can be so strongly against the one sin of homosexuality, while seeming to ignore many many others.
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True enough to that.

Jesus' attitude towards sinners was pretty simple, but two-parted: He loved them, but refused to enable them, instead challenging them to repent. That's why the formulation is "Your sins are forgiven, go forth and sin no more." That's the proper attitude for the Church as well. Love homosexuals, but don't teach them falsely in order to make everyone "happier".

As for the Church, it strikes me that, when it came to marriage, Jesus had quite a lot to say about Divorce.... I tend to hold that up as a yardstick that many of our denominations fall short of.
 
RGacky3 said:
Did God make Pedophiles as Pedophiles?
Did God made sadists as sadists?
Did he make psychopaths as psychopaths?
Did he make terrorists as terrorists?
Did he make adulterers as adulterers?
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Hm. Well I would definitely say that my temptation to adultery is pretty much inherent in my sinful, fallen nature. I would say that my temptation to wreck horrific violence upon my enemies is similarly inherent in my sinful nature. And they are coming out with studies now that suggest that pedophiles also are dealing with inherent urges that they either choose or choose not to act on.

The idea that because we have temptation inherent in our fallen beings doesn't, I think, lead directly to the idea (that he seems to be suggesting) that A) God does not wish a life of joy (if not happiness - those are not the same thing) for them or B) that therefore because it's "natural" it can't be condemned.

Of coarse I agree With you, evangelicals very often only focus on gay marriage and ignore the sin of greed and usury With permeates Our entire society, or they ignore the sin of state enforced and mandated violence, and so on, and no fault divorce and the rabid idolatry of profit and celebrity and so on.
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True enough. I'm a believer in Free Speech, but if I could clap my hands and get Joel Olsteen of the television, I'd be sorely tempted.

But affirming homosexuality, celebrating it and marrying homosexuals goes against everything in the bible, including Jesus' definition of marriage.
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Also true enough. You're an interesting bird, Gacky :)
 
cpwill said:
Hm. Well I would definitely say that my temptation to adultery is pretty much inherent in my sinful, fallen nature. I would say that my temptation to wreck horrific violence upon my enemies is similarly inherent in my sinful nature. And they are coming out with studies now that suggest that pedophiles also are dealing with inherent urges that they either choose or choose not to act on.

The idea that because we have temptation inherent in our fallen beings doesn't, I think, lead directly to the idea (that he seems to be suggesting) that A) God does not wish a life of joy (if not happiness - those are not the same thing) for them or B) that therefore because it's "natural" it can't be condemned.
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There are some that are tempted much more by adultary, hell adultary is even argued to be Genetic by scientists, or a propensity towards adultary.

As far as violence the same, there are some that actuall ENJOY hurting People, and some that might do it out of a duty.

My point is that if we are going to treat all sins the same, we CANNOT condone much less celebrate one of them.

And I absolutely agree, arguing that something is Natural, or "I was made this way," is horrible theology, and completely ignores the fall.

True enough. I'm a believer in Free Speech, but if I could clap my hands and get Joel Olsteen of the television, I'd be sorely tempted.
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If I could replace Joel Olsteen With Richard Dawkins on TV, I would, and I would argue that Christianity would be better off.

I honestly also believe that in the United States (really uniquely), evangelicals have been taken over by a political party that forces them to ONLY go after certain sins and abominations, i.e. the ones that don't threaten the Neo-liberal idol of the American Republican (and unfortunately much of the Democratic) party, so they go after the personal ones.

This hasn't happened in the Catholic Church (as much as I oppose their theology), who argues FOR a society that cares for the poor and doesn't reward wanton greed and warfare, while at the same time defeding vihamently the biblical definition of marriage and protecting the rights of the unborn ....

Christians shouldn't play according to principles set by political parties, the principles are set by God in the bible.

Also true enough. You're an interesting bird, Gacky :)
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I appreciate that.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Gay reparative therapy used on children is child abuse.

Period.

And should be stamped out with the full force of law.
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Really? What exactly do they do that is so horrible, that you wish to use the force of law to force parents to raise their children as only you see fit?
 
countryboy said:
Really? What exactly do they do that is so horrible, that you wish to use the force of law to force parents to raise their children as only you see fit?
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This isn't about telling parents how to raise their kids, it's about preventing kids from being subjected to abuse.

The OP's story is one of many and there's a good reason states are trying to outlaw this practice because it's harmful to children.

There are certain things government should be in the business of doing and preventing child abuse is one of them, you "small government" conservatives can eat it as far as I'm concerned, the full weight of government should be brought to bear on anyone who practices this harmful therapy.
 
Jetboogieman said:
This isn't about telling parents how to raise their kids, it's about preventing kids from being subjected to abuse.

The OP's story is one of many and there's a good reason states are trying to outlaw this practice because it's harmful to children.

There are certain things government should be in the business of doing and preventing child abuse is one of them, you "small government" conservatives can eat it as far as I'm concerned, the full weight of government should be brought to bear on anyone who practices this harmful therapy.
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Okay. Still waiting for an answer as to why this therapy is so harmful. Got any examples? Please be specific.
 
countryboy said:
Okay. Still waiting for an answer as to why this therapy is so harmful. Got any examples? Please be specific.
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Because the therapy basically says "you're broken - but we will fix you".

It also says "unless you change - we won't love you any more".
 
Dragonfly said:
Because the therapy basically says "you're broken - but we will fix you".

It also says "unless you change - we won't love you any more".
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Do you have a source for this? Not doubting you or the other poster, I just want answers.
 
countryboy said:
Do you have a source for this? Not doubting you or the other poster, I just want answers.
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Why do people go to "therapy"?

Read the article in the OP.

It's spelled out rather clearly.

"If you're gay, there's something wrong with you, but it can be fixed."
 
Dragonfly said:
Why do people go to "therapy"?

Read the article in the OP.

It's spelled out rather clearly.

"If you're gay, there's something wrong with you, but it can be fixed."
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People go to therapy for all kinds of reasons. But I'll check the article and get back to you.
 
countryboy said:
Okay. Still waiting for an answer as to why this therapy is so harmful. Got any examples? Please be specific.
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Well, I know someone who went through that therapy as a teen because of it being pushed on by their parents.. it was a 'pray the gay away' camp, and from what I gather, ti was extreme version of most therapies. People basically are being told they are worthless because of who they are. In the case of my friend, there also was electroshock therapy, 'baptism' where she nearly got drown, then 'prayed' over. 13 kids went to that session (about 18 years ago now). Out of those 13 kids, 7 are dead. 2 suicides, and 5 drug overdoses.

Does that sound like harm to you?
 
Dragonfly said:
Why do people go to "therapy"?

Read the article in the OP.

It's spelled out rather clearly.

"If you're gay, there's something wrong with you, but it can be fixed."
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Okay, I went through the article, it doesn't go into any detail about what is involved in this therapy. It's also rather vague about how the kid got involved in drugs. To blame it 100% on this so-called therapy, seems to assume too much.
 
RAMOSS said:
Well, I know someone who went through that therapy as a teen because of it being pushed on by their parents.. it was a 'pray the gay away' camp, and from what I gather, ti was extreme version of most therapies. People basically are being told they are worthless because of who they are. In the case of my friend, there also was electroshock therapy, 'baptism' where she nearly got drown, then 'prayed' over. 13 kids went to that session (about 18 years ago now). Out of those 13 kids, 7 are dead. 2 suicides, and 5 drug overdoses.

Does that sound like harm to you?
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Yes, that definitely does sound harmful and akin to abuse. But that doesn't speak at all to the therapy the kid in the OP supposedly underwent. And no offense, but I have no way to confirm your friend's story is even true. It sounds a bit far fetched. Which doesn't necessarily mean it's not true, just difficult to believe. Even if it is true, I seriously doubt it's the norm, it sounds cult like in the extreme.
 
countryboy said:
Okay, I went through the article, it doesn't go into any detail about what is involved in this therapy. It's also rather vague about how the kid got involved in drugs. To blame it 100% on this so-called therapy, seems to assume too much.
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So the "evangelical parents", the ones truly closest to the whole situation, might be overly vague for what reason?
 
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