• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth etc. Marriages. Are they valid?

Are multiple marriages valid? Where is gay marriage mentioned in scripture?

  • Yes. It isn't

    Votes: 2 50.0%

  • No. It isn't

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • Yes. In the OT only.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No. In the OT only.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes. In the NT only.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No. In the NT only.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Yes. In both OT and NT.

    Votes: 1 25.0%

  • No. In both OT and NT.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    4
  • Poll closed .
vasuderatorrent said:
I don't agree with you. If our goal as Christians is to be forgiven as much as possible then we don't need a Bible or a church. We can sin, get forgiveness, sin, get forgiveness, sin, get forgiveness and repeat indefinitely. Why would a group of people who believe that bother to organize? Those kind of morals require no teaching or training. You are advocating hedonism. I don't see the benefit in that kind of theology. Who benefits when society is reduced to the standard of hedonism?
Click to expand...

Doesn't work like that. Yes, you will sin and be forgiven, lather, rinse, repeat. But if you're not even making the attempt, well, you are probably not Christian in the first place.

This is all in that Bible we have been talking about.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
I do know that Christians are terrified of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. If you want to have a discussion with a Christian it is best to ignore the Old Testament because they will.
Click to expand...

So you are no Christian, then? Okay, I'll play, but I warn you, the game I have been waiting to see will be on in a few minutes. Tell me why I, as a Gentile, should follow Jewish ceremonial law and not eat shrimp or wear polyester. Hell, Paul says I don't even have to be circumcised.
 
it's just me said:
Doesn't work like that. Yes, you will sin and be forgiven, lather, rinse, repeat. But if you're not even making the attempt, well, you are probably not Christian in the first place.

This is all in that Bible we have been talking about.
Click to expand...

Are you familiar with the concept of discipleship?
 
it's just me said:
So you are no Christian, then? Okay, I'll play, but I warn you, the game I have been waiting to see will be on in a few minutes. Tell me why I, as a Gentile, should follow Jewish ceremonial law and not eat shrimp or wear polyester. Hell, Paul says I don't even have to be circumcised.
Click to expand...

You are a very disrespectful person. I don't know why I bother typing. You disregard the things I say.

Read these five comments because you missed it the first time I said it.

vasuderatorrent said:
If you want to have a discussion with a Christian it is best to ignore the Old Testament because they will.
Click to expand...
vasuderatorrent said:
If you want to have a discussion with a Christian it is best to ignore the Old Testament because they will.
Click to expand...
vasuderatorrent said:
If you want to have a discussion with a Christian it is best to ignore the Old Testament because they will.
Click to expand...
vasuderatorrent said:
If you want to have a discussion with a Christian it is best to ignore the Old Testament because they will.
Click to expand...
vasuderatorrent said:
If you want to have a discussion with a Christian it is best to ignore the Old Testament because they will.
Click to expand...
 
vasuderatorrent said:
You are a very disrespectful person. I don't know why I bother typing. You disregard the things I say.

Read these five comments because you missed it the first time I said it.
Click to expand...

I can't think of too many things more disrespectful than those comments of yours. Me, I'd just rather cut to the chase. Oh, well, my game is on.
 
it's just me said:
I think I know something about it, most ministers do.
Click to expand...

Discipleship is a lot of work because hedonistic barbarians are constantly discrediting your efforts by constantly referencing forgiveness. There is no point in discipleship if forgiveness is the standard that we hold. Training people to be disciples of Christ will make you into a heartless Pharisees with no understanding of the character of God. Making disciples of Christ is constantly undermined. It's almost a futile attempt.

Jesus preached to thousands but only had 12 disciples. Forgiveness is for the masses. Righteousness is the pursuit of true disciples. I have no desire to divorce my wife and commit adultery just for the opportunity to be forgiven. That's disgusting in my opinion. You may have a different opinion.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Discipleship is a lot of work because hedonistic barbarians are constantly discrediting your efforts by constantly referencing forgiveness. There is no point in discipleship if forgiveness is the standard that we hold. Training people to be disciples of Christ will make you into a heartless Pharisees with no understanding of the character of God. Making disciples of Christ is constantly undermined. It's almost a futile attempt.

Jesus preached to thousands but only had 12 disciples. Forgiveness is for the masses. Righteousness is the pursuit of true disciples. I have no desire to divorce my wife and commit adultery just for the opportunity to be forgiven. That's disgusting in my opinion. You may have a different opinion.
Click to expand...

Wow, just wow....
 
vasuderatorrent said:
Discipleship is a lot of work because hedonistic barbarians are constantly discrediting your efforts by constantly referencing forgiveness. There is no point in discipleship if forgiveness is the standard that we hold. Training people to be disciples of Christ will make you into a heartless Pharisees with no understanding of the character of God. Making disciples of Christ is constantly undermined. It's almost a futile attempt.

Jesus preached to thousands but only had 12 disciples. Forgiveness is for the masses. Righteousness is the pursuit of true disciples. I have no desire to divorce my wife and commit adultery just for the opportunity to be forgiven. That's disgusting in my opinion. You may have a different opinion.
Click to expand...



So, if you're all about keeping very strictly to the letter of the bible.... where does this advocacy of female domination of society come in? Not exactly Biblical.... or are you just trolling here?
 
it's just me said:
Wow, just wow....
Click to expand...

It would be nice to have sex with more women but I'm pretty certain it would ruin my life. Just because God forgives doesn't mean everybody else will. It may be valid theology to rely on forgiveness but it's a very sloppy lifestyle that usually leads to destruction. It's irresponsible to preach forgiveness as a valid alternative to righteousness.

I believe a reliance on forgiveness and the pursuit of righteousness are polar opposites. I advocate the latter.
 
Last edited:
Goshin said:
So, if you're all about keeping very strictly to the letter of the bible.... where does this advocacy of female domination of society come in? Not exactly Biblical.... or are you just trolling here?
Click to expand...

This thread is about the Biblical validity of multiple marriages and how that relates to same sex marriages. If you want to discuss female domination of society you can visit this thread:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...3018-femtheist-divine-law.html#post1063679202

Please do not hijack this thread. It will get you into trouble. Keep the discussion appropriate.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
This thread is about the Biblical validity of multiple marriages and how that relates to same sex marriages. If you want to discuss female domination of society you can visit this thread:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...3018-femtheist-divine-law.html#post1063679202

Please do not hijack this thread. It will get you into trouble. Keep the discussion appropriate.
Click to expand...


I am trying to determine if you are sincere or just pulling a very long chain. Are you a Christian? What sort?
 
Goshin said:
I am trying to determine if you are sincere or just pulling a very long chain. Are you a Christian? What sort?
Click to expand...

I was raised in a fundamental Christian home. My tradition called ourselves Separate Baptist. Some could call them Backwood Baptist. As a husband and father my family have been Southern Baptist my entire married life. I personally struggle with doubts about the faith but deep down I am a fundamental Christian with firmly planted roots. If I had to take a label that most accurately described me I would pick atheist.

This doesn't invalidate this thread. The Bible says the same thing whether I believe it or not. The Bible says the same thing whether I like it or not. The Bible says the same thing no matter what. It is not inappropriate to discuss a book that interests me. It is not inappropriate to discuss a book in which I am very familiar. I would call that fun and pleasurable. However just because I am knowledgeable about a particular topic doesn't mean I should be banned from discussing it or be inappropriately label a troll so that you can hang me without a judge or jury.

No. I enjoy many topics and I don't think you should be able to dictate which subjects that I am allowed to discuss and which ones I should be banned from discussing.

Debate Politics was founded on the idea that free speech is wonderful. I happen to agree.
 
Paleocon said:
The point was that forgiveness does not mean allowing a person to do as they wish.
Click to expand...

It is better to seek forgiveness than to ask for permission.:roll: The hedonistic mantra.
 
Paleocon said:
No, the one that has existed since the time of Jesus.



The point was that forgiveness does not mean allowing a person to do as they wish.
Click to expand...

It's not always your choice to make. Remember, Paul was a murderer and a persecutor of the brethern, and he was forgiven.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
It would be nice to have sex with more women but I'm pretty certain it would ruin my life. Just because God forgives doesn't mean everybody else will. It may be valid theology to rely on forgiveness but it's a very sloppy lifestyle that usually leads to destruction. It's irresponsible to preach forgiveness as a valid alternative to righteousness.

I believe a reliance on forgiveness and the pursuit of righteousness are polar opposites. I advocate the latter.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point. During my formation I found myself a long way from home, in great physical, emotional, and spiritual distress. I began to pray the hourly offices (it's a Catholic thing). After stripping off the top layer of my sins, I doscovered more sin that led to those sins, and after stripping off those sins I found still more. You are never without the need for forgiveness, no matter how good or worthy you think you are. You can't progress without forgiveness.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
I was raised in a fundamental Christian home. My tradition called ourselves Separate Baptist. Some could call them Backwood Baptist. As a husband and father my family have been Southern Baptist my entire married life. I personally struggle with doubts about the faith but deep down I am a fundamental Christian with firmly planted roots. If I had to take a label that most accurately described me I would pick atheist.

This doesn't invalidate this thread. The Bible says the same thing whether I believe it or not. The Bible says the same thing whether I like it or not. The Bible says the same thing no matter what. It is not inappropriate to discuss a book that interests me. It is not inappropriate to discuss a book in which I am very familiar. I would call that fun and pleasurable. However just because I am knowledgeable about a particular topic doesn't mean I should be banned from discussing it or be inappropriately label a troll so that you can hang me without a judge or jury.

No. I enjoy many topics and I don't think you should be able to dictate which subjects that I am allowed to discuss and which ones I should be banned from discussing.

Debate Politics was founded on the idea that free speech is wonderful. I happen to agree.
Click to expand...

Goshin is not going to ban you, he wants to know what your trip is.
 
it's just me said:
You're missing the point.
Click to expand...

I guess I did misunderstand it. I thought you were trying to say that my Biblical interpretation on remarriage was inaccurate because I failed to take into account that forgiveness trumps all.

I guess you threw me off a little bit.
 
Goshin said:
I am trying to determine if you are sincere or just pulling a very long chain. Are you a Christian? What sort?
Click to expand...

Here is a little more information about my background.

vasuderatorrent said:
My religious upbringing was very serious. I attended church Sunday morning, Sunday night and Wednesday night all of my childhood. I probably missed less than 20 services during my 18 years of childhood. My dad was a preacher with ambitions of being a pastor. He actually got to do it a few times but it never lasted long. I often went to extremely small churches (sometimes churches averaging less than 10 people) because my dad saw this as the place where he had the biggest chance to "step in" when the pastor got wore out.

The people I attended church with were very sincere with their faith just like my parents. I never really saw these "hypocrites" that I heard so much about. Because of the small organizations where I attended church I was afforded the opportunity to give devotions, sing songs or pray publicly at a very young age. I describe my religious environment as a child as very magical. In my particular brand of Christianity which was informally called "Backwood Baptist" but also known as "Seperate Baptist" being a deacon was held in the highest regard. Men of good report were set aside sometimes as long as 20 years to be watched for worthiness to serve in that office. The position of deacon was only open to married men that had never been divorced and never drank alcohol. I also grew up in a county where alcohol was illegal and still remains illegal in 2013 excluding the county seat. I looked forward to becoming a deacon when I grew up. It was interesting that Backwood Baptist would allow anybody to preach if they "announced their call to preach" which meant go in front of the church and say, "God called me to preach." If a church needed a pastor they might vote for you if they liked you. It was easier to be a pastor than it was to be a deacon. I often heard preaching like the famous Jeremiah Wright message used by Republicans during the 2008 election campaign. I heard many preachers say that America was doomed because they weren't following the ways of God.

Imagine my surprise when I became a deacon at age 30 and the Chairman of Deacon at age 31. My faith is much weaker as an adult because of painful life experiences but Christianity is a huge part of who I am. I love Christianitiy passionately and it doesn't matter to me whether it's fairy tales or not. It was a wonderful thing for me excluding recent events that happened to me while I was Chairman of Deacons.

To answer the question: I grew up in a home where I was told what to believe religiously. All of my sources were sincere people so I really respected their lifestyle and their vision for me to be a humble servant of God.

Christianity was an awesome part of my life and it still remains with me. Politics were rarely discussed. My dad voted in every election and usually voted for the candidate that was already in office and the Republican candidate for president. Politics were suspect as a work of the devil. Maybe that's why I didn't hear much about it.

vasuderatorrent
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
vasuderatorrent said:
It is better to seek forgiveness than to ask for permission.:roll: The hedonistic mantra.
Click to expand...

Which side of this argument do you think I'm on?

it's just me said:
It's not always your choice to make. Remember, Paul was a murderer and a persecutor of the brethern, and he was forgiven.
Click to expand...

St. Paul stopped murdering Christians.
 
Paleocon said:
Which side of this argument do you think I'm on?
Click to expand...

Sorry. I wasn't rolling my eyes at you. I was rolling my eyes at the mentality that forgiveness ends all discussions.

Paleocon said:
St. Paul stopped murdering Christians.
Click to expand...

People forget the harsh words of Jesus to the alduterous woman.

John 8:11 HCSB "No one, Lord," she answered. "Neither do I condemn you," said Jesus. Go and from now on do not sin any more."

I don't see Jesus promoting a hedonistic approach. He could have said, "Neither do I condemn you. Go out and enjoy your day." but he didn't say that.
 
vasuderatorrent said:
I was raised in a fundamental Christian home. My tradition called ourselves Separate Baptist. Some could call them Backwood Baptist. As a husband and father my family have been Southern Baptist my entire married life. I personally struggle with doubts about the faith but deep down I am a fundamental Christian with firmly planted roots. If I had to take a label that most accurately described me I would pick atheist.

This doesn't invalidate this thread. The Bible says the same thing whether I believe it or not. The Bible says the same thing whether I like it or not. The Bible says the same thing no matter what. It is not inappropriate to discuss a book that interests me. It is not inappropriate to discuss a book in which I am very familiar. I would call that fun and pleasurable. However just because I am knowledgeable about a particular topic doesn't mean I should be banned from discussing it or be inappropriately label a troll so that you can hang me without a judge or jury.

No. I enjoy many topics and I don't think you should be able to dictate which subjects that I am allowed to discuss and which ones I should be banned from discussing.

Debate Politics was founded on the idea that free speech is wonderful. I happen to agree.
Click to expand...



I'm not trying to dictate what you discuss. We do have people who come along playing a role they don't actually hold to, however, whose object is mockery rather than sincere discussion. I wanted to know where you stood; you answered; all is well, carry on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom