NEW WORLD TRANSLATION Bible [W:62]

Re: False claims against the new world translation

tosca1 said:

Where's your source?

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The source is given - just see the title of this thread that you started.

The subject, as you started it, was to take shots at the JW's and to condemn their translation of the Bible.

See your own opening post =

So the source is known.

Zyphlin said:

Moderator's Warning:

If you want to respond to a poster's statements in a thread than reply in THAT THREAD. Starting another thread to call out your disdain or disagreement with what another poster stated is unnecessary and potentially baiting. Threads merged

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ALTER2EGO -to- ZYPHLIN:

I did not see you merging other threads on this website where people are rebutting each other in opposing threads, nor did I see you acting like a drama queen, claiming they are "baiting."


Apparently, you think it is a bright idea to micro-manage and demonstrate you are a control freak, by telling people which threads they are supposed to post in. It is no wonder your Religion forum is practically dead. And I was actually inviting other people to come here. I will be sure and tell them not to.


BTW: Let me assure you that if you do not have power off-line in the real world, you will not get it on an internet website, since these types of places come a dime a dozen. Whenever moderators start removing my threads for stupid reasons like the one you used, I simply remove myself from the website.



DO ME THE GOOD FAVOR OF CANCELLING MY ACCOUNT HERE.




I WILL NOT BE RETURNING!

Re: False claims against the new world translation

Captain America said:

I got 3 JW's who work for me. We established, early on, to keep religion out of our relationship.

I don't really know what they believe and I really don't care. All I know is that they are very hard workers and they are honest as the day is long. They are well mannered gentlemen and I wouldn't think twice about inviting them into my house for a beer and to watch the game. I don't know what they believe but I hope they keep believing in it. They really are awesome guys.

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I also know of atheists who show the same. No one is attacking their character.

Re: False claims against the new world translation

Alter2Ego said:

FALSE CLAIMS AGAINST THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION


ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

A frequent false claim made against the New World Translation of the Bible (published by Jehovah's Witnesses aka the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society) is that Jehovah's Witnesses rewrote the Judeo-Christian Bible and changed its contents from what was originally written. This fallacious claim is spread around the Internet by members of Christendom at just about every website where I have debated. The objective is to give the impression that the only reason why Jehovah's Witnesses reject the false doctrines of Trinity, literal hellfire torment, the immortal soul dogma, etc. is because their Bible was changed and is "corrupted."


A frequent claim by the misinformed is that the publishers of the New World Translation aka NWT removed certain verses that belong in the Bible. Just as fallacious is the claim that the King James Version is the most accurate rendition of the original writings. In reality, the KJV contains dozens of translation blunders, some of which are deliberate. I will present examples of such later on in this thread.


The intention of this thread is to address the aforementioned false claims and debunk them. I will start doing so in the very next post. Meanwhile, I invite those with examples of the NWT's supposed "corruption" to quote such verses in this thread and explain where they are seeing a "corruption" or inaccuracy. Start with only four (4) verses at a time. Also you should simultaneously quote the same verse from a translation of the Bible that you believe has it right.

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Why don't you explain to us what happened to John 1:1.

Why is it that NWT has it translated to:

In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*


Numerous scholars disagree with NWT translation.


What do the Greek scholars really say?

A. T. Robertson: "So in Jo. 1:1 theos en ho logos the meaning has to be the Logos was God, not God was the Logos." A New Short Grammar of the Greek Testament, by A. T. Robertson and W. Hersey Davis (Baker Book House, 1977), p. 279.

C. K. Barrett: "The absence of the article indicates that the Word is God, but is not the only being of whom this is true; if ho theos had been written it would have implied that no divine being existed outside the second person of the Trinity." The Gospel According to St. John (S.P.C.K., 1955), p.76.


Randolph O. Yeager: "Only sophomores in Greek grammar are going to translate '...and the Word was a God.' The article with logos, shows that logos is the subject of the verb en and the fact that theos is without the article designates it as the predicate nominative. The emphatic position of theos demands that we translate '...and the Word was God.' John is not saying as Jehovah's Witnesses are fond of teaching that Jesus was only one of many Gods. He is saying precisely the opposite." The Renaissance New Testament, Vol. 4 (Renaissance Press, 1980), p.4.


Donald Guthrie: "The absence of the article with Theos has misled some into thinking that the correct understanding of the statement would be that 'the word was a God' (or divine), but this is grammatically indefensible since Theos is a predicate." New Testament Theology (InterVarsity Press, 1981), p. 327.


Bruce Metzger: "It must be stated quite frankly that, if the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists... As a matter of solid fact, however, such a rendering is a frightful mistranslation." "The Jehovah's Witnesses and Jesus Christ," Theology Today (April 1953), p. 75.


Julius R. Mantey: "Since Colwell's and Harner's article in JBL, especially that of Harner, it is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 "The Word was a god."
Word-order has made obsolete and incorrect such a rendering... In view of the preceding facts, especially because you have been quoting me out of context, I herewith request you not to quote the Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament again, which you have been doing for 24 years." Letter from Mantey to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.



Who are these scholars?
Many of them are world-renowned Greek scholars whose works the Jehovah's Witnesses themselves have quoted in their publications, notably Robertson, Harner, and Mantey, in defense of their "a god" translation of John 1:1!

Westcott is the Greek scholar who with Hort edited the Greek text of the New Testament used by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Yeager is a professor of Greek and the star pupil of Julius Mantey.

Metzger is the world's leading scholar on the textual criticism of the Greek New Testament.

It is scholars of this caliber who insist that the words of John 1:1 cannot be taken to mean anything less than that the Word is the one true Almighty God.

John 1:1

In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*

Not only was this an inaccurate translation which numerous scholars reject, but as a result, the following verse from NWT had taken on a whole new meaning!

2 This one was in the beginning with God.


HOW MANY gods DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE?

THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION HAD SHIFTED YOU FROM BEING MONOTHEISTS TO HENOTHEISTS.

YOU BROKE THE VERY FIRST COMMANDMENT OF GOD.

COMPARATIVELY, JW IS LIKE THE BACK-SLIDING JEWS FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT WHO KEPT WORSHIPPING OTHER gods.

Re: False claims against the new world translation

Alter2Ego said:

ALTER2EGO -to- CAPTAIN AMERICA:

Since you raised the issue in this thread, I will give you an example of what we believe and what we do not believe. I will also do this for the benefit of others reading this thread.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe in honesty and in living clean moral lives where drunkenness, smoking of cigarettes, illegal drugs, practicing of sexual immorality, practicing of foul language, gambling, and the like are rejected. Jehovah's Witnesses do not participate in politics and refuse to take part in wars.


We reject false religious teachings, such as the following:

1. CHRISTENDOM'S TRINITY: According to of the 41,000 denominations within Christendom, Almighty God is supposedly split up into three different persons: (A) Jehovah the Father, (B) Jesus Christ the Son, and (C) the holy spirit/holy ghost. Mind you, there is not one single verse of scripture in the Judeo-Christian Bible in support of the dogma. But despite that, and despite the fact Trinity did not become official Christian teaching until the 4th century AD--more than 300 years after Jesus Christ returned to heavenly life, and more than 300 years after the last book of the Judeo-Christian Bible was written by inspiration of Jehovah--Trinitarians insist on believing in a 3-in-1 god. Keep in mind that according to the Shema at Deuteronomy, Almighty God Jehovah is singular.

"Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is ONE Jehovah." (Deuteronomy 6:4)

Not surprisingly, I have never been able to get a Trinitarian to explain to me how 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.



2. LITERAL HELLFIRE TORMENT: There are no scriptures in the Bible that support this dogma, but most of the 41,000 denominations within Christendom insist that humans has an immortal soul that will be burned for eternity in literal hellfire (if the person is wicked). Never mind that the Bible makes it clear that God holds out only two hopes for mankind, as follows:

"For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23)


As all can see, the Bible says there are two hopes: death or the opposite of death aka everlasting life. Hellfire believers insist God will keep the dead alive so that he can torture them for eternity.




3. PAGAN CELEBRATIONS DISGUISED AS CHRISTIAN CELEBRATIONS:

(A) Christmas, which was copied by the Catholic Church from the pagan celebration in Rome known as the Saturnalia aka the birthday of the unconquered sun. Christmas mimicks the Saturnalia to such an extent that it includes the giving of gifts, the merry-making and drunkenness, the lights and evergreens, and the whole 9 yards.


(B) Easter celebration, which was copied from worship of the pagan goddess of fertility Oester. Not surprisingly, Easter celebration includes symbols of fertility such as eggs and rabbits.


The above are examples of what Jehovah's Witnesses believe.

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Who is your prophet?

This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students.



How many prophecies had your prophets made that didn't come true? Here they are:


1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).

•1899 " . . . the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).

•1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).

•1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).

•1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).

•1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).

•1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).

•1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).

•1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).

•1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).

•1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).

•1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? . . . Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).

•1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).

Jehovah's Witnesses and their many false prophecies | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry



That alone should serve as a wake-up call to JW followers. A true prophet of God won't err or make mistakes in prophesying. Only a false prophet does.

Re: False claims against the new world translation

tosca1 said:

Who is your prophet?

Jehovah's Witnesses and their many false prophecies | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

That alone should serve as a wake-up call to JW followers. A true prophet of God won't err or make mistakes in prophesying. Only a false prophet does.

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In my view the only reason you started and maintain this thread is just to express your prejudice and contempt for the Jehovah Witness church by maliciously attacking their translation of the Bible.

I suspect that you were surprised that so many posters here did not jump onto your hate the JW's bandwagon.

Your own faith might well support religious bigotry but thankfully there are many other people who reject those old hateful ways.

Re: False claims against the new world translation

Alter2Ego said:

FALSE CLAIMS AGAINST THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION

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Ditto. False claims about the Bible being "corrupt." And about Jesus.

The only difference is that claims against the NWT cannot be said to be false since they are substantiated by factual evidences from credible sources, such as the numerous scholars mentioned previously - some of whom had even been quoted and used by JW in their articles.

John 1:1 is a good example.

Re: False claims against the new world translation

tosca1 said:

Why don't you explain to us what happened to John 1:1.

Why is it that NWT has it translated to:

In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*


Numerous scholars disagree with NWT translation.


What do the Greek scholars really say?

1. A. T. Robertson: "So in Jo. 1:1 theos en ho logos the meaning has to be the Logos was God, not God was the Logos." A New Short Grammar of the Greek Testament, by A. T. Robertson and W. Hersey Davis (Baker Book House, 1977), p. 279.

2. C. K. Barrett: "The absence of the article indicates that the Word is God, but is not the only being of whom this is true; if ho theos had been written it would have implied that no divine being existed outside the second person of the Trinity." The Gospel According to St. John (S.P.C.K., 1955), p.76.


3. Randolph O. Yeager: "Only sophomores in Greek grammar are going to translate '...and the Word was a God.' The article with logos, shows that logos is the subject of the verb en and the fact that theos is without the article designates it as the predicate nominative. The emphatic position of theos demands that we translate '...and the Word was God.' John is not saying as Jehovah's Witnesses are fond of teaching that Jesus was only one of many Gods. He is saying precisely the opposite." The Renaissance New Testament, Vol. 4 (Renaissance Press, 1980), p.4.


4. Donald Guthrie: "The absence of the article with Theos has misled some into thinking that the correct understanding of the statement would be that 'the word was a God' (or divine), but this is grammatically indefensible since Theos is a predicate." New Testament Theology (InterVarsity Press, 1981), p. 327.


5. Bruce Metzger: "It must be stated quite frankly that, if the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists... As a matter of solid fact, however, such a rendering is a frightful mistranslation." "The Jehovah's Witnesses and Jesus Christ," Theology Today (April 1953), p. 75.


Julius R. Mantey: "Since Colwell's and Harner's article in JBL, especially that of Harner, it is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 "The Word was a god."
Word-order has made obsolete and incorrect such a rendering... In view of the preceding facts, especially because you have been quoting me out of context, I herewith request you not to quote the Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament again, which you have been doing for 24 years." Letter from Mantey to the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society.



Who are these scholars?
Many of them are world-renowned Greek scholars whose works the Jehovah's Witnesses themselves have quoted in their publications, notably Robertson, Harner, and Mantey, in defense of their "a god" translation of John 1:1!

Westcott is the Greek scholar who with Hort edited the Greek text of the New Testament used by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Yeager is a professor of Greek and the star pupil of Julius Mantey.

Metzger is the world's leading scholar on the textual criticism of the Greek New Testament.

It is scholars of this caliber who insist that the words of John 1:1 cannot be taken to mean anything less than that the Word is the one true Almighty God.

John 1:1

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1. In Theos ho Logos it's giving the logos a feature of divinity, not identifying the logos as God, had John been doing that he would used Ho Logos as is used all the time With Yahweh.

2. No ****, which is why you have the problem translation "the Word Was God" because it implies identification With God, inwhich the logos IS identified as the God and the God IS idnetified as the logos, in which the trinitarian formula collapses, so you trinitarians have the bigger problem here.

3 & 4. John is not identifying the Logos as God either, he's describing the logos as godlike or Divine, so that argumeing of it being a predicate goes against the argument "the Word was God" just as much as "the Word was a God" InFact more so, since the former identifies who the logos is, something a predicate DOES NOT do.

5. I didn't know theology should dictate translation

6. Word order isn't that important in koine greek at all.

In the beginning was the Word,+ and the Word was with God,+ and the Word was a god.*

Not only was this an inaccurate translation which numerous scholars reject, but as a result, the following verse from NWT had taken on a whole new meaning!

2 This one was in the beginning with God.


HOW MANY gods DO YOU ACTUALLY HAVE?

THE NEW WORLD TRANSLATION HAD SHIFTED YOU FROM BEING MONOTHEISTS TO HENOTHEISTS.

YOU BROKE THE VERY FIRST COMMANDMENT OF GOD.

COMPARATIVELY, JW IS LIKE THE BACK-SLIDING JEWS FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT WHO KEPT WORSHIPPING OTHER gods.

Click to expand...

Are you saying that translation should depend on Your theology? I'd think the origionaly Language text should dictate Your theology first.

The "theos" in "kai Theos en ho logos"

IS A PREDICATE ....

Listen to the scholars you quoted and actually READ and THINK ABOUT what you post before you post it.

Since it's a predicate translating it as "the Word was God" is 100 times more dishonest than translating it as "the Word was a God."

Re: False claims against the new world translation

tosca1 said:

Who is your prophet?

This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students.



How many prophecies had your prophets made that didn't come true? Here they are:


1897 "Our Lord, the appointed King, is now present, since October 1874," (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, p. 621).

•1899 " . . . the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' (Revelation 16:14), which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," (The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101).

•1916 "The Bible chronology herein presented shows that the six great 1000 year days beginning with Adam are ended, and that the great 7th Day, the 1000 years of Christ's Reign, began in 1873," (The Time Is at Hand, forward, p. ii).

•1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," (Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89).

•1922 "The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914," (Watchtower, Sept. 1, 1922, p. 262).

•1923 "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge," (Watchtower, Apr. 1, 1923, p. 106).

•1925 "The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year," (Watchtower, Jan. 1, 1925, p. 3).

•1925 "It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work," (Watchtower, Sept., 1925, p. 262).

•1926 "Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything," (Watchtower, p. 232).

•1931 "There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time . . . and they also learned to quit fixing dates," (Vindication, p. 338).

•1941 "Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining months before Armageddon," (Watchtower, Sept. 15, 1941, p. 288).

•1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing? . . . Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," (Awake, Oct. 8, 1968).

•1968 "Why are you looking forward to 1975?" (Watchtower, Aug. 15, 1968, p. 494).

Jehovah's Witnesses and their many false prophecies | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry



That alone should serve as a wake-up call to JW followers. A true prophet of God won't err or make mistakes in prophesying. Only a false prophet does.

Click to expand...

As far as I know Jehovah's Witnesses don't claim to be prophets.

Re: NEW WORLD TRANSLATION Bible

How many thousands of years will pass until Christians agree on the life of one man? If it is the truth why does Christianity changer tunes so often. "Plan the work then work the plan".

Re: NEW WORLD TRANSLATION Bible

rhinefire said:

How many thousands of years will pass until Christians agree on the life of one man? If it is the truth why does Christianity changer tunes so often.

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It turns out that God and Jesus intended for the world and humanity to be confused and divided (or to let that be), and it might now appear to be a curse to some people but the other way of complete unity would surely be far worse.

We have real evidence of times where Christianity ruled in one land or Country (as like the rule in Europe) and that was a mess.

Jesus told us about this reality as He told us to REMEMBER by the so-called "Last Supper" in that Jesus told that His body would be broken and His spirit spilled out, and so the religions of the world are all broken away from each other and the spirit of God can be found at any corner or spot on the earth throughout humanity.

Jesus was not just giving some feel-good ceremony - no - Jesus was telling a secret message which we can now see.

In the end time (as the story goes) then the body and blood get reunited and put back together for the Kingdom of God, Mark 14:22-25

Otherwise God could have inspired some person to write a full biography of Jesus which filled in the details - but that was not in the over-all plans.

Re: NEW WORLD TRANSLATION Bible

IMO it's sad that so many people convinced their respective religion -- or even more absurd, their particular denomination and its theological specifics -- is the absolute truth and they could never possibly err, spend so much time bashing those who largely agree with them, just differ regarding a few minor theological points.

The problem with the Bible is that various different interpretations regarding the details and theological conclusions are possible, and IMO man's wisdom and mind is not capable enough to find the one and only truth. We're all just searching for the truth with best intentions and according to the best of our capacities, yet still come to different conclusions. So why bash each other? Why wasting so much energy convincing the other is wrong? Isn't that hybris, as only God will judge in the end anyway?

And aren't maybe our fruits we're bearing more important that the details of our theological convictions?

(In case it isn't obvious, I'd answer "yes" to the above questions. )

Re: NEW WORLD TRANSLATION Bible

German guy said:

IMO it's sad that so many people convinced their respective religion -- or even more absurd, their particular denomination and its theological specifics -- is the absolute truth and they could never possibly err, spend so much time bashing those who largely agree with them, just differ regarding a few minor theological points.

The problem with the Bible is that various different interpretations regarding the details and theological conclusions are possible, and IMO man's wisdom and mind is not capable enough to find the one and only truth. We're all just searching for the truth with best intentions and according to the best of our capacities, yet still come to different conclusions. So why bash each other? Why wasting so much energy convincing the other is wrong? Isn't that hybris, as only God will judge in the end anyway?

And aren't maybe our fruits we're bearing more important that the details of our theological convictions?

(In case it isn't obvious, I'd answer "yes" to the above questions. )

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Well said. If you believe in a god then it's pretty disrespectful to assume you know the depth of his will.

It's 'hubris' btw, not 'hybris', but full respect for your eloquence!

Re: NEW WORLD TRANSLATION Bible

German guy said:

IMO it's sad that so many people convinced their respective religion -- or even more absurd, their particular denomination and its theological specifics -- is the absolute truth and they could never possibly err, spend so much time bashing those who largely agree with them, just differ regarding a few minor theological points.

The problem with the Bible is that various different interpretations regarding the details and theological conclusions are possible, and IMO man's wisdom and mind is not capable enough to find the one and only truth. We're all just searching for the truth with best intentions and according to the best of our capacities, yet still come to different conclusions. So why bash each other? Why wasting so much energy convincing the other is wrong? Isn't that hybris, as only God will judge in the end anyway?

And aren't maybe our fruits we're bearing more important that the details of our theological convictions?

(In case it isn't obvious, I'd answer "yes" to the above questions. )

Click to expand...

Jesus teaches different--John 4:22-24---- The true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for its the Father who is searching for suchlike ones to worship him in spirit and truth, and the hour is now.

Learning and applying all of Jesus truths, is the key to success.

Truth is needed.

Re: NEW WORLD TRANSLATION Bible

Bump.

Re: NEW WORLD TRANSLATION Bible

German guy said:

IMO it's sad that so many people convinced their respective religion -- or even more absurd, their particular denomination and its theological specifics -- is the absolute truth and they could never possibly err, spend so much time bashing those who largely agree with them, just differ regarding a few minor theological points.

The problem with the Bible is that various different interpretations regarding the details and theological conclusions are possible, and IMO man's wisdom and mind is not capable enough to find the one and only truth. We're all just searching for the truth with best intentions and according to the best of our capacities, yet still come to different conclusions. So why bash each other? Why wasting so much energy convincing the other is wrong? Isn't that hybris, as only God will judge in the end anyway?

And aren't maybe our fruits we're bearing more important that the details of our theological convictions?

(In case it isn't obvious, I'd answer "yes" to the above questions. )

Click to expand...

The reason we argue with each other is because:
"Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend." KJV, Proverbs 27:17

What you say is all logical and sensible and reasonable, and yet it includes a very small deterrent which I can not accept.

I reject the idea that mankind or any individual would not have the ability to learn the truths and to know the truths of God, and there is no justification that our human brain and mind can not fathom the full depth of God and beyond.

Such a limitation on our own intellect is just not acceptable to me.

Lots of people say that, but I find that most people simply do not do the homework or give the needed effort and they do not even try and that is the only reason that they do not know the deep truths of God and of reality or even of the Bible, because the Bible is not really that complicated.

I do not bash people so much for not knowing but because they do not want to know and that so many (the vast majority) do not even try.

Our own ancestors of near and of old tell us that there is a God including many fantastic things and yet so many people today reject it all without any research and do not even read the Bible as if that is expecting too much from them.