Why Be Good?

Sababa · Jul 7, 2014

There are many Christians who when confronted with a logical argument for why their religious position does not and should not be civil law call upon the idea of damnation in the end of days. It is an interesting approach but one that will fall on deaf ears as if you don't believe in God or their particular version of God then it is an empty threat. But it that is what motivates someone not to sin, then what is that really saying about honoring the law and God? If the reason you don't break a commandment is fear of punishment, that is not discipline it is fear, a total external thing. The counter of course is to make God into a cartoon that says "Love me and obey me or I will punish you forever, and by the way I created you in a way that you are more likely to fail".

This is an insane theology to me. It creates strange ways of looking at the world. There is a story from my tradition.

A rich man wakes one morning and sees in his courtyard a beggar. He calls to the man to come in and asks him if he would daven (pray) the morning blessings with him and if he does the rich man would feed him. The beggar explains it had been so long since he prayed but the rich man instructs him in putting on the proper garb and helps him with the words. Twenty minutes later the two sit down to a meal, the first for the beggar in almost 3 days having lived off scraps he received in the street.
Later that day the rich man encounters his Rabbi and explains the situation, proud he got a man to fulfill the commandments of prayer. The Rabbi responds: "You fool, when you encounter someone in need, act as if there is no God, feed and care for him or her and then pray".

The lesson is clear. Too often people find themselves wrapped up in the God of the moment and not the Godliness. Thinking on an afterlife to guide your moves is not acting in a godly fashion. For Christianity, the teaching is to use Jesus as a role model and to show the world how glorious the faith is to you, not beat them over the head with hell fire and damnation. Jews tend to not focus on our various afterlife stories. It is not important, we are in the here and now and one of the biggest jobs for Jews is to leave the world a better place for us having been here. How we interpret that is different for sure. But in the end we feed the hungry before was ask for prayers, we act out of our own convictions and not fear or divine retribution (to a point) and we try to find a way to live in the world we are in, not one of the past.

The fact is that is also how many Christians live their lives. That is how religion should help motivate us for greater things. Sadly for some they see religion as a battle ax and that is troubling.

it's just me · Jul 7, 2014

Sababa said:
There are many Christians who when confronted with a logical argument for why their religious position does not and should not be civil law call upon the idea of damnation in the end of days. It is an interesting approach but one that will fall on deaf ears as if you don't believe in God or their particular version of God then it is an empty threat. But it that is what motivates someone not to sin, then what is that really saying about honoring the law and God? If the reason you don't break a commandment is fear of punishment, that is not discipline it is fear, a total external thing. The counter of course is to make God into a cartoon that says "Love me and obey me or I will punish you forever, and by the way I created you in a way that you are more likely to fail".

This is an insane theology to me. It creates strange ways of looking at the world. There is a story from my tradition.

A rich man wakes one morning and sees in his courtyard a beggar. He calls to the man to come in and asks him if he would daven (pray) the morning blessings with him and if he does the rich man would feed him. The beggar explains it had been so long since he prayed but the rich man instructs him in putting on the proper garb and helps him with the words. Twenty minutes later the two sit down to a meal, the first for the beggar in almost 3 days having lived off scraps he received in the street.
Later that day the rich man encounters his Rabbi and explains the situation, proud he got a man to fulfill the commandments of prayer. The Rabbi responds: "You fool, when you encounter someone in need, act as if there is no God, feed and care for him or her and then pray".

The lesson is clear. Too often people find themselves wrapped up in the God of the moment and not the Godliness. Thinking on an afterlife to guide your moves is not acting in a godly fashion. For Christianity, the teaching is to use Jesus as a role model and to show the world how glorious the faith is to you, not beat them over the head with hell fire and damnation. Jews tend to not focus on our various afterlife stories. It is not important, we are in the here and now and one of the biggest jobs for Jews is to leave the world a better place for us having been here. How we interpret that is different for sure. But in the end we feed the hungry before was ask for prayers, we act out of our own convictions and not fear or divine retribution (to a point) and we try to find a way to live in the world we are in, not one of the past.

The fact is that is also how many Christians live their lives. That is how religion should help motivate us for greater things. Sadly for some they see religion as a battle ax and that is troubling.

This is a strawman argument and it always has been. We do good because it is better for others and ultimately for ourselves. Why we have to continually explain this to people who have no idea of what we really do believe or how we live our lives is a mystery to me.

The story of the rich man and the rabbi sounds like a liberal politician: "vote for me and I'll feed you".

joG · Jul 7, 2014

Sababa said:
There are many Christians who when confronted with a logical argument for why their religious position does not and should not be civil law call upon the idea of damnation in the end of days. It is an interesting approach but one that will fall on deaf ears as if you don't believe in God or their particular version of God then it is an empty threat. But it that is what motivates someone not to sin, then what is that really saying about honoring the law and God? If the reason you don't break a commandment is fear of punishment, that is not discipline it is fear, a total external thing. The counter of course is to make God into a cartoon that says "Love me and obey me or I will punish you forever, and by the way I created you in a way that you are more likely to fail".

This is an insane theology to me. It creates strange ways of looking at the world. There is a story from my tradition.

A rich man wakes one morning and sees in his courtyard a beggar. He calls to the man to come in and asks him if he would daven (pray) the morning blessings with him and if he does the rich man would feed him. The beggar explains it had been so long since he prayed but the rich man instructs him in putting on the proper garb and helps him with the words. Twenty minutes later the two sit down to a meal, the first for the beggar in almost 3 days having lived off scraps he received in the street.
Later that day the rich man encounters his Rabbi and explains the situation, proud he got a man to fulfill the commandments of prayer. The Rabbi responds: "You fool, when you encounter someone in need, act as if there is no God, feed and care for him or her and then pray".

The lesson is clear. Too often people find themselves wrapped up in the God of the moment and not the Godliness. Thinking on an afterlife to guide your moves is not acting in a godly fashion. For Christianity, the teaching is to use Jesus as a role model and to show the world how glorious the faith is to you, not beat them over the head with hell fire and damnation. Jews tend to not focus on our various afterlife stories. It is not important, we are in the here and now and one of the biggest jobs for Jews is to leave the world a better place for us having been here. How we interpret that is different for sure. But in the end we feed the hungry before was ask for prayers, we act out of our own convictions and not fear or divine retribution (to a point) and we try to find a way to live in the world we are in, not one of the past.

The fact is that is also how many Christians live their lives. That is how religion should help motivate us for greater things. Sadly for some they see religion as a battle ax and that is troubling.

I don't see that acting by the code would be any better or worse for the motivation to do so. As a matter of fact, knowing human desires and naughtiness I would suspect that any God worth his salt would realize, what makes man tick. I mean, after all, he made them in the first place. And as man cannot in any way fathom the depths of Godish being, why should he presume he would understand. So God says do this or be damned, Man would be best to believe it and act nice.

faithful_servant · Jul 7, 2014

You wrongly assume that we obey out of fear. We obey out of love (or at least that's what we are supposed to be doing). I'll openly admit that many Christians do obey out of fear, but what we are supposed to be doing is obeying out of love - love for God and love for each other. Even the Old Covenant speaks to this with great clarity. The idea that we should obey out of ANYTHING other than love runs completely counter to true Christianity.

Sababa · Jul 7, 2014

it's just me said:
This is a strawman argument and it always has been. We do good because it is better for others and ultimately for ourselves. Why we have to continually explain this to people who have no idea of what we really do believe or how we live our lives is a mystery to me.

The story of the rich man and the rabbi sounds like a liberal politician: "vote for me and I'll feed you".

and you miss the point

Sababa · Jul 7, 2014

faithful_servant said:
You wrongly assume that we obey out of fear. We obey out of love (or at least that's what we are supposed to be doing). I'll openly admit that many Christians do obey out of fear, but what we are supposed to be doing is obeying out of love - love for God and love for each other. Even the Old Covenant speaks to this with great clarity. The idea that we should obey out of ANYTHING other than love runs completely counter to true Christianity.

yes that is my point and many argue the opposite..........

nota bene · Jul 7, 2014

In human terms, I think there is a desire to please our Father by trying our best to be good. And even if one is not a person of faith, striving to be good, however you define it, is a worthy goal because we're all works in-progress and shouldn't be stagnating.

it's just me · Jul 7, 2014

Sababa said:
and you miss the point

No, I didn't. You get points for showing up, too, even if it is out of Godly fear. Just about everybody fakes it until they make it, there is nothing wrong with that, at least they put forth the effort. I am not so naive as to believe all Christians are perfected the day they see the light. Paul didn't believe that. Did you ever notice that he always called his congregations "saints" just before he told them what was wrong with them?

I don't believe you. It takes years of practice to reach the level of beatification you demand. And I don't think you have the right to demand it of anyone but yourself. We are all at different points in our walk. You would discourage many before they even start.

JP Cusick · Jul 7, 2014

nota bene said:
In human terms, I think there is a desire to please our Father by trying our best to be good. And even if one is not a person of faith, striving to be good, however you define it, is a worthy goal because we're all works in-progress and shouldn't be stagnating.

:attn1:

Sababa said:
Why be good?

My answer here is not going to fit into any old mold but still it stands.

The original sin (as some call it) included an unhealthy claim by the serpent in the garden who said that people would be like gods Genesis 3:5 knowing good and evil ("bad" is the accurate interpretation and not evil) except that serpent was not telling true as that knowing of good and bad was the cursing - cursing warned by God - DO NOT EAT IT - Genesis 2:17 as it is that knowledge which still kills humanity today.

Trying to decide "good or bad" or thinking that we can know "good or bad" is all a part of that original poison (cursing) which still goes onward infecting mankind worldwide.

It may seem old to people but that original-sin and "creation event" are explained even better in the old Sanskrit text of the Bhagavad-Gita, where it tells more about that knowledge of good or bad (good and evil) as being a poison which we must avoid and shun because it will hurt us all.

We can learn right from wrong because right and wrong can be defined and categorized and based on known principles and standards, but judging anything as "good or bad" is a far different disease based on human feelings and emotions and circumstances which have no true basis in reality.

Just FYI - if anyone really wants to know.

lizzie · Jul 7, 2014

JP Cusick said:
:
It may seem old to people but that original-sin and "creation event" are explained even better in the old Sanskrit text of the Bhagavad-Gita, where it tells more about that knowledge of good or bad (good and evil) as being a poison which we must avoid and shun because it will hurt us all.

We can learn right from wrong because right and wrong can be defined and categorized and based on known principles and standards, but judging anything as "good or bad" is a far different disease based on human feelings and emotions and circumstances which have no true basis in reality.

Just FYI - if anyone really wants to know.

That is an excellent description of the concept I have in my mind. I gave up the concepts of God as good, and the devil as evil many years ago. I don't view "God" as *only* one thing. To me, it's all a part of the same thing, and we are expressions of it, both the positive and the negative.

grip · Jul 7, 2014

lizzie said:
That is an excellent description of the concept I have in my mind. I gave up the concepts of God as good, and the devil as evil many years ago. I don't view "God" as *only* one thing. To me, it's all a part of the same thing, and we are expressions of it, both the positive and the negative.

I see it similarly as good being 'knowing' and evil as 'ignorance'. I don't believe they have any magical energy involved with their existence as moral choices.

JP Cusick · Jul 7, 2014

lizzie said:
That is an excellent description of the concept I have in my mind. I gave up the concepts of God as good,

God as "good" is fine with me - except that the human perception of God as "good" is severely distorted and misguided and mostly wrong.
The knowledge is not necessarily accurate or inaccurate but just that the knowledge is poison to us all, just as many other poisons taste great (or good) which is deceptive.

The Bible (and other scriptures) give a better description in that "God is love" (1 John 4:8) because love can punish children and love can use discipline or it can be gentle and kind too, while trying to claim that "God is good" puts the person making that claim up onto a pedestal where no person belongs because it creates self-righteousness.

lizzie said:
... and the devil as evil many years ago.

The Devil or Satan is given a very unjust negativity.

The Bible twice records the Apostle Paul as using Satan to help save people, see here:
1 Corinthians 5:5 "that the spirit may be saved"
1 Timothy 1:20 "I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme."

When Satan the Devil is used to teach people right from wrong then who can declare THAT to be either good or bad? Answer = no one.

lizzie said:
I don't view "God" as *only* one thing. To me, it's all a part of the same thing, and we are expressions of it, both the positive and the negative.

Amen to that.

Amen indeed.

God does not even have any one name as it has many names and many apparitions, so it is only foolish people who attach limitations against the unknown truth.

nota bene · Jul 8, 2014

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known (I Corinthians 13: 12).

There is no way for our limited intellects and understanding to appreciate the infinity of God's imagination.

tosca1 · Jul 8, 2014

Sababa said:
There are many Christians who when confronted with a logical argument for why their religious position does not and should not be civil law call upon the idea of damnation in the end of days. It is an interesting approach but one that will fall on deaf ears as if you don't believe in God or their particular version of God then it is an empty threat. But it that is what motivates someone not to sin, then what is that really saying about honoring the law and God? If the reason you don't break a commandment is fear of punishment, that is not discipline it is fear, a total external thing. The counter of course is to make God into a cartoon that says "Love me and obey me or I will punish you forever, and by the way I created you in a way that you are more likely to fail".

This is an insane theology to me. It creates strange ways of looking at the world. There is a story from my tradition.

A rich man wakes one morning and sees in his courtyard a beggar. He calls to the man to come in and asks him if he would daven (pray) the morning blessings with him and if he does the rich man would feed him. The beggar explains it had been so long since he prayed but the rich man instructs him in putting on the proper garb and helps him with the words. Twenty minutes later the two sit down to a meal, the first for the beggar in almost 3 days having lived off scraps he received in the street.
Later that day the rich man encounters his Rabbi and explains the situation, proud he got a man to fulfill the commandments of prayer. The Rabbi responds: "You fool, when you encounter someone in need, act as if there is no God, feed and care for him or her and then pray".

The lesson is clear. Too often people find themselves wrapped up in the God of the moment and not the Godliness. Thinking on an afterlife to guide your moves is not acting in a godly fashion. For Christianity, the teaching is to use Jesus as a role model and to show the world how glorious the faith is to you, not beat them over the head with hell fire and damnation. Jews tend to not focus on our various afterlife stories. It is not important, we are in the here and now and one of the biggest jobs for Jews is to leave the world a better place for us having been here. How we interpret that is different for sure. But in the end we feed the hungry before was ask for prayers, we act out of our own convictions and not fear or divine retribution (to a point) and we try to find a way to live in the world we are in, not one of the past.

The fact is that is also how many Christians live their lives. That is how religion should help motivate us for greater things. Sadly for some they see religion as a battle ax and that is troubling.

It is not obedience out of fear.

A practicing Christian will automatically reflect the teachings of Jesus in his everyday lives....because he has Jesus in him.

Why is thinking of an afterlife - the desire to be among those to enter the Kingdom of God, not acting in "godly" fashion? There is nothing "ungodly" about it. Jesus talked about it. It's God's promised reward!

JP Cusick · Jul 9, 2014

tosca1 said:
Why is thinking of an afterlife - the desire to be among those to enter the Kingdom of God, not acting in "godly" fashion? There is nothing "ungodly" about it. Jesus talked about it. It's God's promised reward!

I realize this question is not directed at me, but I want to give the answer anyway.

Why that is WRONG is because we are NOT to be acting like God or to pretend to be God(s) and that is unGodly for any person to THINK that they are acting as a God or to believe it is acting as like God.

In fact the idea that we people are "gods" is a concept which came from the original lie (thereby original sin) because the original lie was that by eating the poisoned fruit of knowledge of good and bad (wrongly interpreted "evil") the serpent tells humanity that we shall be like gods which was NOT TRUE.

See here Genesis 3:4-5
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

People are wrong to believe that we already have some immortal soul which never dies because that was a part of the serpent's lie, and viewing ourselves as gods is another part of the lies.

And that is why it is wrong to do or to believe.

tosca1 · Jul 9, 2014

JP Cusick said:
I realize this question is not directed at me, but I want to give the answer anyway.

Why that is WRONG is because we are NOT to be acting like God or to pretend to be God(s) and that is unGodly for any person to THINK that they are acting as a God or to believe it is acting as like God.

In fact the idea that we people are "gods" is a concept which came from the original lie (thereby original sin) because the original lie was that by eating the poisoned fruit of knowledge of good and bad (wrongly interpreted "evil") the serpent tells humanity that we shall be like gods which was NOT TRUE.

See here Genesis 3:4-5
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

People are wrong to believe that we already have some immortal soul which never dies because that was a part of the serpent's lie, and viewing ourselves as gods is another part of the lies.

And that is why it is wrong to do or to believe.

I was responding to Sababa's suggestion that thinking about the afterlife is ungodly. It is not ungodly.

There is nothing ungodly about thinking and desiring to partake of the rewards promised by God - the rewards that's been described numerous times by Jesus. Furthermore, the descriptions of Jesus tend to give visuals in our minds. We're meant to think and desire the "treasure" that's not of this world!

And, I don't know why you think that, but.....

Thinking about the afterlife definitely does not mean that we imagine ourselves to be God.

JP Cusick · Jul 9, 2014

tosca1 said:
I was responding to Sababa's suggestion that thinking about the afterlife is ungodly. It is not ungodly.

There is nothing ungodly about thinking and desiring to partake of the rewards promised by God - the rewards that's been described numerous times by Jesus. Furthermore, the descriptions of Jesus tend to give visuals in our minds. We're meant to think and desire the "treasure" that's not of this world!

And, I don't know why you think that, but.....

Thinking about the afterlife definitely does not mean that we imagine ourselves to be God.

See your own post #14

Then what I said stands firm.

tosca1 · Jul 9, 2014

JP Cusick said:
See your own post #14

Then what I said stands firm.

But you gave Genesis as your reference - quoting the serpent. That was in Genesis.

See here Genesis 3:4-5
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

The serpent did indeed lie when he told the woman she wouldn't die if she'd partake of the fruit.

What do you think happened when Adam and Eve ate the fruit? It resulted in death for them and mankind.

People are wrong to believe that we already have some immortal soul which never dies because that was a part of the serpent's lie, and viewing ourselves as gods is another part of the lies. And that is why it is wrong to do or to believe.

JESUS CHRIST CAME. He REDEEMED us!
That changed the whole thing about death.

If you believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that He fulfilled His mission - then you'd believe that....

.....He triumphed over death.

That's what's the RESURRECTION was all about. If we believe in Him, we triumph over death as well!

There is such a thing called eternal life.

So yes, it's not wrong for a Christian to believe that we have an immortal soul!
IN FACT, EVERY CHRISTIAN SHOULD BELIEVE AND REJOICE IN THAT!
Because, THAT'S TRUE!

1 Corinthians, verse 55:

O death, where is thy sting?
O grave, where is thy victory?
Thanks be to God, who giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Paleocon · Jul 9, 2014

It is natural to do good because it fulfills ones nature (is spiritually good for oneself). Only a few are able to obtain perfect charity (doing good to please God) in the wayfaring state, if such were morally obligatory, then salvation would be nearly impossible.

But let's not let reality get in the way of an anti-Christian rant.

JP Cusick · Jul 9, 2014

tosca1 said:
But you gave Genesis as your reference - quoting the serpent. That was in Genesis.

JESUS CHRIST CAME. He REDEEMED us!
That changed the whole thing about death.

If you believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that He fulfilled His mission - then you'd believe that....

I really did know about Jesus when I made that posting.

Jesus did NOT turn that serpent's lie into a truth - no - that lie remains a lie still.

There is some hope that there is to be some resurrection to a new life in the future, but that is not as yet a done deal.

tosca1 · Jul 9, 2014

JP Cusick said:
I really did know about Jesus when I made that posting.

Jesus did NOT turn that serpent's lie into a truth - no - that lie remains a lie still.

Who said Jesus turned the serpent's lie into truth?

The serpent told the woman - she would not die. The woman believed the serpent and the result was death for her and mankind. THE SERPENT LIED ABOUT HER NOT DYING! :doh

If I follow your "logic" you'd have me believe the serpent was just being honest - telling the truth in the first place, right? That she wouldn't die. Because Jesus ended up redeeming us and we gained victory over death! :lol:

Jesus wouldn't have had to come dying for us if man didn't disobey God.

There is some hope that there is to be some resurrection to a new life in the future, but that is not as yet a done deal.

IT IS A DONE DEAL!

There will be Resurrection for us all in the Second Coming - when we'll all individually face God and give accounts!
Judgement will be given to us all!

Question: "Why is the resurrection of Jesus Christ important?"

Second, the resurrection of Jesus is a testimony to the resurrection of human beings, which is a basic tenet of the Christian faith. Unlike all other religions, Christianity alone possesses a founder who transcends death and who promises that His followers will do the same.

Read more: Why is the resurrection of Jesus Christ important?

One thing we don't know for sure are the details of how exactly everything will be.

JP Cusick · Jul 9, 2014

tosca1 said:
Who said Jesus turned the serpent's lie into truth?

The serpent told the woman - she would not die. The woman believed the serpent and the result was death for her and mankind. THE SERPENT LIED ABOUT HER NOT DYING! :doh

If I follow your "logic" you'd have me believe the serpent was just being honest - telling the truth in the first place, right? That she wouldn't die. Because Jesus ended up redeeming us and we gained victory over death! :lol:

Your conclusion is mistaken because you are not applying the text to real life.

In real life people have the belief that we will not die at our death because people (not just Christians) believe that they have an immortal soul which thereby will not die (as told by the serpent).

The Bible does say that Eve and Adam both died, but nowhere does it say that anyone ever rejected that poisoned knowledge including the lies from the serpent, and since we know that humanity has believed that lie of an eternal soul which never dies for as long as recorded human history (ancient Egypt believed it as told on the walls of the Pyramids) so no - Eve did not start to disbelieve the lies after she died - certainly not.

This also goes along with that same poisoned knowledge of "good and bad" (or evil) because when humans start judging good and bad then we are playing as if we were Gods which we are not and which was another part of that serpent's lie, see #15 =

Acting Godly or being "good" are both expressions of that original pack of lies from that old serpent in the garden, but to willfully do right and shun the wrongs is the way to obey God.

Plus a person who believes the serpent's lies does not make the person as "bad" or evil - it just makes then wrong.

tosca1 said:
IT IS A DONE DEAL!

There will be Resurrection for us all in the Second Coming

Still that is another misinterpretation of the words.

If anyone already had eternal life or an immortal soul then then there would not be (and could not be) a resurrection because resurrection means resurrected FROM THE DEAD. If a person is already alive as some immortal soul then they are not being resurrected from the dead, see 1 Corinthians 15:42-53.

Dead means dead, and it (dead) does not mean living as a soul in some Heaven or any Hell.

I realize that you and mainstream Christianity believes otherwise and you are all just wrong, but even more-so than wrong is that you are believing and preaching the same original lies that came from that serpent in the garden.

tosca1 · Jul 11, 2014

JP Cusick said:
Still that is another misinterpretation of the words.

If anyone already had eternal life or an immortal soul then then there would not be (and could not be) a resurrection because resurrection means resurrected FROM THE DEAD. If a person is already alive as some immortal soul then they are not being resurrected from the dead, see 1 Corinthians 15:42-53.

No. You got that wrong.

We still have to die (Bible describes death as "sleep") - but it's only temporary.
We all get RESURRECTED at the Second Coming for judgement - God will judge those who'll have eternal life, and those who'll be dead.

No one knows exactly what the final death will mean. No one knows exactly if hell is to be taken literally or not.

Dead means dead, and it (dead) does not mean living as a soul in some Heaven or any Hell.

So you don't believe in the Second Coming of Christ. Now I understand.

That's what happens when we try to embrace different religion at the same time and try to customize them.
Our understanding gets convoluted.

Rhiannon · Jul 11, 2014

The Golden Rule can be applied to any religion, culture, or circumstance. If people treated others how they want to be treated, there could be world peace.

Manny · Jul 12, 2014

Why be good- If we walk in the way of the Lord, it's the path of righteousness. Not only does good acts make for a better world around us, it changes us from within.

Likewise, commit evil or associate with evil leads to self-destruction. I think that should be self-evident. Try hanging out with gangsters, or people who live a life based on injustice, manipulation, exploitation of others for them selves. Do you think they can be trusted? No. You are next.

The concept is like 'karma', but it's very simple and logical. There is no magic here. That which we send out into the world returns to us.

Why Be Good?

Sababa

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it's just me

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joG

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Sababa

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nota bene

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JP Cusick

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tosca1

Paleocon

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