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God at work

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Depends, as a deist, I believe God is never at work. He created the universe and never touched it again.

We are in control, not him.
On a local, temporal scale we seem to be in control. On a larger scale we cannot do anything outside of the natural laws governing the universe.

One could argue that even locally, within the immediacy of our own lives we cannot avoid the consequences gods justice. Whatever you send out into the world comes back to you. Sow the wind, ...
 
On a local, temporal scale we seem to be in control. On a larger scale we cannot do anything outside of the natural laws governing the universe.

One could argue that even locally, within the immediacy of our own lives we cannot avoid the consequences gods justice. Whatever you send out into the world comes back to you. Sow the wind, ...

Natural "laws" aren't even 100% proven. Those are essentially concepts that we have created based on the environment around us. For all we care there can be a place in the universe where the laws are different or things aren't even bound to any natural laws like gravity and inertia etc.

One definitely could argue that locally we cannot avoid God's justice, but at the same time one can also argue the opposite. These are all beliefs so at this point it's just my word v your word.
 
"Muslims" "jesus" "changed views"

Not surprising, he is a very respected prophet in muslim tradition.


What's amazing are the similar dreams and visions these Muslims were having. They didn't change their views because He's been regarded as a prophet - they already knew that.

They CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY because of their dreams of Him.
 
We've got valid reasons to believe that indeed, Christianity is the true religion - and all the rest are false!

8 Really Good Reasons Why Christianity Is True

8 Really Good Reasons Why Christianity Is True

As for reason #5, boy....have you checked out the videos provided in this thread? Muslims all over the world dreaming of Jesus and converting to Christianity?

most of those are opinion or belief not fact.......
 
most of those are opinion or belief not fact.......


Well, those opinion are based on facts. You should read it again.


One of his reference is Simon Greenleaf.

Testimony of the Evangelists by Simon Greenleaf (1783-1853)

Greenleaf, one of the principle founders of the Harvard Law School, originally set out to disprove the biblical testimony concerning the resurrection of Jesus Christ. He was certain that a careful examination of the internal witness of the Gospels would dispel all the myths at the heart of Christianity. But this legal scholar came to the conclusion that the witnesses were reliable, and that the resurrection did in fact happen.
Testimony of the Evangelists by Simon Greenleaf


Dr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, was one of the greatest legal minds that ever lived. He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many the greatest legal volume ever written. Dr. Simon Greenleaf believed the Resurrection of Jesus Christ was a hoax. And he determined, once and for all, to expose the "myth" of the Resurrection. After thoroughly examining the evidence for the resurrection — Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion! He wrote a book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In which he emphatically stated:
"it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."
(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29).

Greenleaf concluded that according to the jurisdiction of legal evidence the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the best supported event in all of history!
And not only that, Dr. Greenleaf was so convinced by the overwhelming evidence, he committed his life to Jesus Christ!

What changed his mind? What evidence did Dr. Greenleaf encounter that so drastically turned him around? What facts did he discover that he could not rationally ignore?
The Resurrection of Jesus Christ, Fact or Fiction?
 
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Well, those opinion are based on facts. You should read it again.


One of his reference is Simon Greenleaf.


Testimony of the Evangelists by Simon Greenleaf



The Resurrection of Jesus Christ, Fact or Fiction?

NO Greenleaf made great assumption, legal apologetics are based on the same faith not facts as others. Oh and he didn't found the law school at Harvard, he did help development it further but you understand he got his law degree from the law school at Harvard right? No? Pity.

One can't deem a witness credible without cross examination. Evangelicals have used this fiction that if we use the trappings of law and legal scholars we can say we have the authority. Sadly no. It is still faith.
 
What's amazing are the similar dreams and visions these Muslims were having. They didn't change their views because He's been regarded as a prophet - they already knew that.

They CONVERTED TO CHRISTIANITY because of their dreams of Him.

Last I checked, Islam was the fastest growing religion on Earth despite Christianity being the biggest.

Penny smart, dollar stupid.

You get a few muslims to convert while the muslims get crowds to convert.

EDIT

growth of christianity = 1.36%

growth of islam = 2.13%
 
NO Greenleaf made great assumption, legal apologetics are based on the same faith not facts as others. Oh and he didn't found the law school at Harvard, he did help development it further but you understand he got his law degree from the law school at Harvard right? No? Pity.

One can't deem a witness credible without cross examination. Evangelicals have used this fiction that if we use the trappings of law and legal scholars we can say we have the authority. Sadly no. It is still faith.


Furthermore, the article didn't say he was the founder. He was one of the principal founders. Big difference.

You have to support your claim with something credible....otherwise that's just your opinion. It cannot be taken seriously.


In 1833, Greenleaf was named to the Royall professorship, and in 1846 succeeded Judge Joseph Story as Dane professor of law at Harvard University. Greenleaf contributed extensively to the development of Harvard Law School, including expansion of the Harvard Law Library.
Simon Greenleaf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Last I checked, Islam was the fastest growing religion on Earth despite Christianity being the biggest.

Penny smart, dollar stupid.

You get a few muslims to convert while the muslims get crowds to convert.

EDIT

growth of christianity = 1.36%

growth of islam = 2.13%

Your source? Link please.
 
Your source? Link please.

Fastest Growing Religion; Christianity

Technically zoroastrianism and some other bull**** religion with 2 followers is growing faster but I'm saying **** those religions because if 1 person joins a religion with 1 follower that's technically 50% growth.

Islam isn't all too far behind Christianity. Its at 1.5 billion approx and christianity at 2.1 billion approx.
 
Fastest Growing Religion; Christianity

Technically zoroastrianism and some other bull**** religion with 2 followers is growing faster but I'm saying **** those religions because if 1 person joins a religion with 1 follower that's technically 50% growth.

Islam isn't all too far behind Christianity. Its at 1.5 billion approx and christianity at 2.1 billion approx.

All this Christian vs Islam stuff puts me in mind of the episode entitled 'Waiting for God' from the Red Dwarf series. As those who have seen this series will know, Lister is a vending machine technician (3rd class) on the mining space ship Red Dwarf, and has been frozen in time for 3 million years. He is stuck on this ship with only Cat - a being who evolved from his cat, Rimmer, a hologram of one of his crewmates, Kryton, a mechanoid man servant, and Holly the idiosyncratic ship's computer for company.

Lister learns more about the Cat people's god, "Cloister the Stupid" who was "frozen in time" to save the Cat race, and informs the openly skeptical Cat that he is their God, only to subsequently become depressed when he learns that the entire Cat race destroyed itself in holy wars over minor details (mainly concerned with what colour of hat they wore) of 'Fuchal'- the Cat heaven, really based on Lister's plans to open a hot dog and doughnut shop on Fiji-, and that they lived their lives according to five sacred laws of which Lister himself has broken four (also admitting that he would've broken the fifth, except that there wasn't a sheep on board). Later, the Cat, who is known to go "investigating", goes off on one of his excursions, and Lister follows him, deep into the cargo hold.

There Lister discovers an old blind cat priest, the only one of their race left other than Cat, who is dying and proclaims that he has lost his faith, feeling that he has wasted his life following Cloister. The priest takes his hat off, asking Cat to burn it. In his final moments, Lister shows up and convinces the priest that he has led an admirable life and has served Cloister well, and as such will reach 'Fuchal'.

Lister takes the hat back from Cat and puts it back on the priest's head. Convinced by this "miracle", the Cat Priest joyously exclaims that this is the happiest day of his life and promptly dies.
Waiting for God (Red Dwarf) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Need I say more? :mrgreen:
 
In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints there has been a big jump in full time missionaries from something like 50,000 to 80,000 in just a couple of years. That is a big jump.
 
Fastest Growing Religion; Christianity

Technically zoroastrianism and some other bull**** religion with 2 followers is growing faster but I'm saying **** those religions because if 1 person joins a religion with 1 follower that's technically 50% growth.

Islam isn't all too far behind Christianity. Its at 1.5 billion approx and christianity at 2.1 billion approx.

Who cares about Zoroastrianism and all the other minor religions, OR whether Islam is, or isn't too far behind!
I'm talking about the continual growth of Christianity.

Anyway, here's what your source explains:



What is The Fastest Growing Religion?
Short answer: Christianity

Slightly longer answer: Christianity is the fastest growing religion in absolute growth, meaning the fastest growing religion in the annual increase of new adherents. The absolute growth number is calculated as the annual number of new Christian converts subtracted the number of ex-Christians + number of births subtracted number of deaths (new converts - former Christians + births - deaths).

Christianity is the fastest growing religion at both parameters, both in absolute number of new converts and absolute number of new Christians due to population growth. In all, this sums up to an additional approximately 25.2 million new Christians annually(Table J). 22.7 million due to population growth and 2.5 million due to conversions


What about Islam. I've been told/heard/read that Islam is the Fastest Growing Religion:
Islam is the second fastest growing religion. Tagging Christianity by an annual growth of approximately 2.6 million less Muslims than Christians. Approx. 1 million less due to slower population growth and approx. 1.5 million less due to fewer conversions to Islam than to Christianity(Table J).

Summary
Christianity is the fastest growing religion and projections of current trends will must likely result in it progressively distancing it further from other large religions.

Text
Christianity is the fastest growing religion at the only parameter for which such a statement has any meaning: the absolute number of new adherents.

Other religions are showing faster growth trends at relative growth, but this is a construed and almost meaningless way to calculate growth rates, since it speaks nothing of how many new adherents the various religions in actual get.

All the larger religions are still growing at a fast pace through basic population increase. A rising sea floats all boats.
But of a greater future importance will be the comparatively large number of people who chose to become Christians through conversions.


At an annually rate of approx. 2.5 million, the number of people who freely chose to become Christians is.....

....... more than twice the combined number of people converting to all the rest of the twelve tabulated world religions
.


Fastest Growing Religion; Christianity
 
Who cares about Zoroastrianism and all the other minor religions, OR whether Islam is, or isn't too far behind!
I'm talking about the continual growth of Christianity.

Anyway, here's what your source explains:



What is The Fastest Growing Religion?
Short answer: Christianity

Slightly longer answer: Christianity is the fastest growing religion in absolute growth, meaning the fastest growing religion in the annual increase of new adherents. The absolute growth number is calculated as the annual number of new Christian converts subtracted the number of ex-Christians + number of births subtracted number of deaths (new converts - former Christians + births - deaths).

Christianity is the fastest growing religion at both parameters, both in absolute number of new converts and absolute number of new Christians due to population growth. In all, this sums up to an additional approximately 25.2 million new Christians annually(Table J). 22.7 million due to population growth and 2.5 million due to conversions


What about Islam. I've been told/heard/read that Islam is the Fastest Growing Religion:
Islam is the second fastest growing religion. Tagging Christianity by an annual growth of approximately 2.6 million less Muslims than Christians. Approx. 1 million less due to slower population growth and approx. 1.5 million less due to fewer conversions to Islam than to Christianity(Table J).

Summary
Christianity is the fastest growing religion and projections of current trends will must likely result in it progressively distancing it further from other large religions.

Text
Christianity is the fastest growing religion at the only parameter for which such a statement has any meaning: the absolute number of new adherents.

Other religions are showing faster growth trends at relative growth, but this is a construed and almost meaningless way to calculate growth rates, since it speaks nothing of how many new adherents the various religions in actual get.

All the larger religions are still growing at a fast pace through basic population increase. A rising sea floats all boats.
But of a greater future importance will be the comparatively large number of people who chose to become Christians through conversions.


At an annually rate of approx. 2.5 million, the number of people who freely chose to become Christians is.....

....... more than twice the combined number of people converting to all the rest of the twelve tabulated world religions
.


Fastest Growing Religion; Christianity

It depends on how you want to interpret it. I look at it from a percentage basis.

Islam and christianity follower count is the 10000th place on the list of things on my mind as I'm a deist. Just wanted to share this.

Obviously Christianity isn't any more dead than the U.S. is despite some extremely pessimistic asshole's sayings.
 
It depends on how you want to interpret it. I look at it from a percentage basis.

Technically zoroastrianism and some other bull**** religion with 2 followers is growing faster but I'm saying **** those religions because if 1 person joins a religion with 1 follower that's technically 50% growth.

Hmmm...
 

Quite the catch there. But I noted specifically those two as exceptions albeit in a vulgar way.

Do go ahead though, amuse yourself thinking you somehow made an intelligent and witty point.
 
Quite the catch there. But I noted specifically those two as exceptions albeit in a vulgar way.

Do go ahead though, amuse yourself thinking you somehow made an intelligent and witty point.
True, you did not say very nice things about my Persian friends.
Perhaps it's just a little of that divine justice coming back at you, on a local scale!

One definitely could argue that locally we cannot avoid God's justice, but at the same time one can also argue the opposite. These are all beliefs so at this point it's just my word v your word.
And note that I said very, very little...

;)
 
Just three weeks after arriving in the United States from Kuwait, Naeem Fazal was at his brother's house one particular evening, ready to get some sleep.

Fazal, who was still a Muslim when he relocated to South Carolina following the devastating Gulf War, returned that night from attending a campus ministry event with his Christian brother. He was about to experience one of the most terrifying experiences of his life.

Read more....


Muslim Turned Christian Shares Terrifying, Real-Life Nightmare Conversion Story
 
Hooraayyy, there are miracles after all.

Resurrection of something that's been dead over 16 months.

Meanwhile, for the projection lovers and crystal ball addicts:

The good news :2razz: :
Atheists, agnostics and other people who do not affiliate with any religion – though increasing in countries such as the United States and France – will make up a declining share of the world’s total population.

the not so good news :
by 2050 …The number of Muslims will nearly equal the number of Christians around the world.

the "should this bother us?" news:
In the United States, Christians will decline from more than three-quarters of the population in 2010 to two-thirds in 2050, and Judaism will no longer be the largest non-Christian religion. Muslims will be more numerous in the U.S. than people who identify as Jewish on the basis of religion.

the "damn 'em all to hell" news:
by 2050 there will be near parity between Muslims (2.8 billion, or 30% of the population) and Christians (2.9 billion, or 31%), possibly for the first time in history.

compiled by and courtesy of "what the hell do I care" news

Now how about some more eye numbing billboarding?
 
Mosab Hassan Yousef






Mosab Hassan Yousef (later Joseph) [2] was born in Ramallah, a city 10 kilometers (6.2 mi) north of Jerusalem. His father, Sheikh Hassan Yousef, was a Hamas founder and leader who spent many years in Israeli prisons.[2][3][7] He is the oldest of five brothers and three sisters.

Yousef claims that his doubts about Islam and Hamas began forming when he realized Hamas' brutality, and that he hated how Hamas used the lives of suffering civilians and children to achieve their goals.[2] Yousef was held by Shin Bet agents in 1996. He claims that while in prison, he was shocked by Shin Bet's interrogation methods which he considered humane, when compared to how Hamas operatives tortured imprisoned suspected collaborators.[10] He decided to accept a Shin Bet approach to become an informant.[11]

In 1999, Yousef met a British missionary who introduced him to Christianity.[2] Between the years 1999 and 2000, Yousef gradually embraced Christianity. In 2005, he was secretly baptized in Tel Aviv by a Christian tourist. He left the West Bank for the United States in 2007 and lived some time in San Diego, California, where he joined the Barabbas Road Church.[2]

In August 2008, Yousef publicly revealed his Christianity and renounced Hamas and the Arab leadership, thereby endangering himself and exposing his family in Ramallah to persecution.[2] Yousef has also claimed that his aim was to bring peace to the Middle East. He still hopes to return to Israel when there is peace.[2]


Mosab Hassan Yousef - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


if a conservative religious person posts it,it is never a smart action,tosca.why do you just post about your own belief instead of insulting the other religion,being a good christian is not such a thing.jesus is not such a person!this is the religion forum,not a ME propaganda forum!hamas doesnt represent islam,you smart lady!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Of course, as indicated....I'm referring to Christianity.

And yes, Lizzie, you're right, God is always at work. But of course, I speak as a Christian who believes her God is the One and Only God.

This thread highlights the works of God in places deemed risky to be a Christian - which a lot of us could take for granted since we've never lived it - where conversion could be a matter of life and death.

we believe in the same god ,tosca!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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