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Thread: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

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    Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    ALTER2EGO -to- EVERYONE:

    The teaching of literal hellfire torment is commonplace in Christendom and non-Christian religions. This teaching defames the Creator and portrays him as a sadist who tortures people in flames of fire for all eternityóas punishment for wrongdoing committed during the relatively brief human lifespan. The hellfire dogma was brought into Christianity by the Roman Catholics who copied it from pagan religions. (Pagans are those who do not worship the God of the Judeo-Christian Bible.)


    The Bible makes it clear as to how God views the ritual burning of people. Jehovah ended up rejecting the ancient Israelites after they got involved with pagan worship, which included burning their children to death.


    "And they [the Israelites/sons of Judah] have built the high places of Topheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hinnom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that HAD NOT COME UP INTO MY HEART." (Jeremiah 7:31)


    "{58} And they kept offending him with their high places, and with their graven images they kept inciting him to jealousy. {59} God heard and got to be furious, and he condemned Israel very much. {60} And he finally forsook the tabernacle of Shiloh, the tent in which he resided among earthling men." (Psalms 78:58-60)



    The scriptures indicate that hell is nothing more than mankindís common grave. Proof of this is provided by a verse of scripture in the Bible, which no hellfire-believing Christian can explain away. Iím referring to the scripture that says Jesus Christ--the epitome of a perfect, sinless, and obedient man--died and went to hell.


    "{21} In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving you a model for you to follow his steps closely. {22} He committed no sin, nor was deception found in his mouth." (1 Peter 2:21-22)


    "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that HIS SOUL WAS NOT LEFT IN HELL, neither his flesh did see corruption." (Acts 2:31--King James Version)




    DISCUSSION QUESTIONS:
    1.
    Are there scriptures in the Bible to support the teaching of literal hellfire torment? If so, quote up to four (4) scriptures and include Bible book, chapter, and verse. Then bold or italicize or colorize the words within the quotations that you are focusing on, and explain why you believe the scriptures you present are talking about literal hellfire torment.


    2. According to Jeremiah 7:31, did Jehovah command the ancient Israelites to burn anyone in the fire?


    3. According to Jeremiah 7:31, did the burning of people come to God's heart?



    4. According to those who believe in literal hellfire torment, hell is a place for people who are wicked. So why did Jesus spend three days in hell, considering what's said at 1 Peter 2:22?


    5. If hell is a place of literal torment, why is it that the word "hell" also means "Sheol" and "Hades" and "the grave"?


    6. When people are being tortured in hellfire, wouldn't they have to KNOW or be conscious/aware of the fact that they are being burned? I mean to say, what's the point of punishing people in hell if they aren't even aware?


    7. Does the Bible teach that humans have an immortal soul that survives the death of the person so that the soul can then be burned in eternal flames? If so, please present scriptures to this effect to prove it, and follow the steps indicated at Question #1.


    8. Those who believe in literal eternal torment say that the person's soul is being burned forever. What is the soul? Are animals souls also or is this only for humans?

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    Re: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    Hell is a completely fabricated concept. The most obvious evidence of this is that the old testament does not detail hell in any way shape or form. Hell is translated from the word "sheol" which in Hebrew has no negative connotations, but rather resembles Jewish purgatory.

    The idea that an omnipotent creator will torture people with eternal hellfire because they didn't listen to "his" priests is ridiculous. I've never understood how christians can take so much comfort and joy in knowing that a large portion of their family and friends are screaming in agony this very moment, being tortured by the very man they worship.

    "Infinite punishment is infinite cruelty, endless injustice, immortal meanness. To worship an eternal gaoler hardens, debases, and pollutes even the vilest soul. While there is one sad and breaking heart in the universe, no good being can be perfectly happy." ~ Robert G. Ingersoll
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 03-30-14 at 04:37 AM.

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    Re: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    The very idea that people of ANY faith believe a God capable of such brutality and destruction, yet still worship it.....in my opinion defines the worshippers as evil and masochistic.
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    Re: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    Existence requires opposition in all things, laws that organize matter, and free agency. Our Heavenly Father wants all of His sons and daughters to have an infinite fullness of joy but in existence there is cause and effect. If we embrace darkness misery is what we get. A man like Hitler is a miserable creature not because of God but because he used his free agency and chose a path that leads to misery. Christ is an example the other way, He chose a path that leads to joy. If the Atonement of Christ is properly understood it shows the love of God for all of us.

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    Re: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    From my reading, when people die, they die. And once the apocalypse and second coming and all that happen, those that are judged worthy will be resurrected and live on earth, in paradise, whilst the sinners will simply not be resurrected. The idea of a heaven or hell where the souls of people go before the second coming in not biblically supported.
    And there's no need to worry since everything is mostly nothing;
    or so I'm told by an angel in a white lab coat

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    Re: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    Well, in my view, whether hellfire torment is literal or not, does not make any difference. I won't waste that much energy pondering and debating about it....who can know exactly anyway?

    The thing that matters is for us to prepare to meet our Maker on Judgement Day.

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    Re: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    Frankly, literal "hell fire" torment might not even be necessary.

    Divorcing oneself almost completely from God's presence, and therefore everything "good" in creation, is likely torment enough. More than anything else, "Hell," in my view, is a state of eternal regret, longing, and impotent frustration over what a person has lost.

    That's not even accounting for one's company in Hell either.

    On the higherarchy of things, angels are quite a bit higher than men. The only reason we are protected from the fallen among their number now is because of God's influence.

    Having to share company with them for the rest of eternity without this protection very likely would not be a "fun" experience.

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    Re: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    I choose to follow the guidelines set forth in the Bible because, not only do they seem to be the rational and moral way to lead ones life, I don't want to live with the fear of death.
    "Have the courage to have your wisdom regarded as stupidity. Be fools for Christ. And have the courage to suffer the contempt of the sophisticated world." - Antonin Scalia

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    Re: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    The very idea that people of ANY faith believe a God capable of such brutality and destruction, yet still worship it.....in my opinion defines the worshippers as evil and masochistic.
    ALTER2EGO -to- TECOYAH:

    You would be surprised at how many supposed Christians insist hellfire torment is literal. At other websites where I debate this topic, the Christians argue tooth and nails in support of the dogma. Their favorite verses are taken from Jesus' parables, including the parable of the "Rich Man and Lazarus". That, they insist, is not a parable--despite the fact the context makes it clear that it is indeed a parable/illustration. Another of their favorites is a verse from Revelation which speaks of the "Lake of Fire". When I direct them to the context of that, showing them it is not literal but instead is figurative speech, they reject the context.

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    Re: Is LITERAL Hellfire Torment A Bible Teaching?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Hell is a completely fabricated concept. The most obvious evidence of this is that the old testament does not detail hell in any way shape or form. Hell is translated from the word "sheol" which in Hebrew has no negative connotations, but rather resembles Jewish purgatory.

    The idea that an omnipotent creator will torture people with eternal hellfire because they didn't listen to "his" priests is ridiculous. I've never understood how christians can take so much comfort and joy in knowing that a large portion of their family and friends are screaming in agony this very moment, being tortured by the very man they worship.

    "Infinite punishment is infinite cruelty, endless injustice, immortal meanness. To worship an eternal gaoler hardens, debases, and pollutes even the vilest soul. While there is one sad and breaking heart in the universe, no good being can be perfectly happy." ~ Robert G. Ingersoll
    ALTER2EGO -to- RABID ALPACA:

    I have wondered about that myself, until I it dawned on me that they are convinced they and their friends will all go to heaven.

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