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Demons, Coast to Coast

SayMyName said:
I wouldn't know. Yet, a conman takes money from you, and they provide entertainment late at night that costs nothing but your time while listening in bed, unless you are working the graveyard shift, in which case they are almost like old friends. People who have worked that one know what I mean. A lot of times in the past when I listened the topics were not as good, and I never got the case George or Art believed in everything their guests had to share, but they gave it an audience that allowed all of us to decide. I think that is what makes them so different. In regards to demons, many would not even give this subject a proper forum for discussion, not even many churches. I am glad they do, though I must admit I don't know if I believe in them, it still sends a shutter down my spine when listening to the stories late at night.
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They sell a number of products through their web site, preying on the believers. Just like every other radio talk show host, they're a business. Theirs is selling the snakeoil and magic boxes to the gullible.
 
Monserrat said:
I don't see how thinking about them changes anything. I grew up on the scifi channel and watched all those haunting shows, I've been to haunted sites that are just upsetting in knowing that horrible things went on there but other then that there wasn't anything supernatural that I've experienced at least so I can't say that I agree there.
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You can disagree with him but that would just be a matter of opinion. He's had some experience with them. You don't. That's the big difference between you and him.

Though you may have watched haunting shows and have not experienced any haunting yourself....is not sufficient reason enough to conclude that dwelling on them wouldn't draw them to you. Surely many of us have loved watching horror movies! Intrigued by what are touted to be based on true stories.
Myself included. I may or may not have had what I think was a supernatural encounter when I was in my teens - I can't be sure. I know of someone who did, and it was corroborated that what she saw was a ghost.

If one believes the Bible then he ought to believe that there are spirits and demons. And demons can try to torment and influence you....or possess a non-Christian. There is a reason why God forbids us to dabble with mediums, necromancers or contacting the dead....do we say, "that ain't true?"

But as for attracting demons.....

Perhaps it depends on how you dwell on that subject. One's state of mind, or well-being.
Perhaps it depends on the measure of fascination one holds for them - like a moth to a flame. Or perhaps vice versa - something about a person that fascinates them.
Perhaps it depends on one's state of faith in God - to either test a strong faith, or to exploit a weak one.
We don't know why some people experience them.
 
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tosca1 said:
You can disagree with him but that would just be a matter of opinion. He's had some experience with them. You don't. That's the big difference between you and him.

Though you may have watched haunting shows and have not experienced any haunting yourself....is not sufficient reason enough to conclude that dwelling on them wouldn't draw them to you. Surely many of us have loved watching horror movies! Intrigued by what are touted to be based on true stories.
Myself included. I may or may not have had what I think was a supernatural encounter when I was in my teens - I can't be sure. I know of someone who did, and it was corroborated that what she saw was a ghost.

If one believes the Bible then he ought to believe that there are spirits and demons. And demons can try to torment and influence you....or possess a non-Christian. There is a reason why God forbids us to dabble with mediums, necromancers or contacting the dead....do we say, "that ain't true?"

But as for attracting demons.....

Perhaps it depends on how you dwell on that subject. One's state of mind, or well-being.
Perhaps it depends on the measure of fascination one holds for them - like a moth to a flame. Or perhaps vice versa - something about a person that fascinates them.
Perhaps it depends on one's state of faith in God - to either test a strong faith, or to exploit a weak one.
We don't know why some people experience them.
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We've had different experiences, it happens, I'm not trying to say his didn't happen I'm just expressing my own opinion. I don't think dwelling on them causes them to be drawn to you I think it causes your mind to be more susceptible to "seeing them" or "feeling" something that may not be there.

I believe that most "spirits" and "demons" are nothing more then our imaginations hard at work it's why the catholic church requires a lot of evidence before doing an exorcism because most of the time it's a health issue with the individual or a hoax.
 
tosca1 said:
If one believes the Bible then he ought to believe that there are spirits and demons. And demons can try to torment and influence you....or possess a non-Christian. There is a reason why God forbids us to dabble with mediums, necromancers or contacting the dead....do we say, "that ain't true?"

But as for attracting demons.....
Perhaps it depends on how you dwell on that subject. One's state of mind, or well-being.
Perhaps it depends on the measure of fascination one holds for them - like a moth to a flame. Or perhaps vice versa - something about a person that fascinates them.
Perhaps it depends on one's state of faith in God - to either test a strong faith, or to exploit a weak one.
We don't know why some people experience them.
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Monserrat said:
I believe that most "spirits" and "demons" are nothing more then our imaginations hard at work it's why the catholic church requires a lot of evidence before doing an exorcism because most of the time it's a health issue with the individual or a hoax.
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As a side note Father Malachi Martin implies that both of you are right. Genuine demonic possession is very rare and some evangelical protestants pastors often mislable mental illness or drug addiction as demonic possession.

At the same time, a person can increase their still remote chances of being possessed either directly (direct invitation) or to varying degrees, indirectly (engage in occult activities, have a certain personality type that attracts demons etc.). In addition, some possessions can occur as the result of the possessed person being given a "trigger item" by a witch. Father Matin did not describe witches as a woman in a pointy hat, but rather as a person who is both fully evil and actively serving Satan. Fortunately, such individuals are also very rare.
 
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Monserrat said:
I don't see how thinking about them changes anything. I grew up on the scifi channel and watched all those haunting shows, I've been to haunted sites that are just upsetting in knowing that horrible things went on there but other then that there wasn't anything supernatural that I've experienced at least so I can't say that I agree there.
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Hm. If I seemed to say that simply listening to this show or watching horror movies would draw demonic attention to you in and of itself, then I was a victim of my own brevity, because that wasn't what I meant.

I rather like horror movies myself. Most of them... some of them touch on things that are too close to reality for my comfort, at times.


To wit: there is a difference between a casual and passing interest, and an obsessive interest, yes? Of course there is. Yet most obsessions begin more casually and gradually progress. Somewhere along the way it may become mentally unhealthy... or worse. If you ever listen to any of these late-nite black-helo shows, you'll hear a lot of people who have become obsessed with these things.


Thus my usual suggestion: in brief, avoid.
 
Monserrat said:
We've had different experiences, it happens, I'm not trying to say his didn't happen I'm just expressing my own opinion. I don't think dwelling on them causes them to be drawn to you I think it causes your mind to be more susceptible to "seeing them" or "feeling" something that may not be there.

I believe that most "spirits" and "demons" are nothing more then our imaginations hard at work it's why the catholic church requires a lot of evidence before doing an exorcism because most of the time it's a health issue with the individual or a hoax.
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I agree, in general. However, if you ever experience the real thing, there will be no doubt in your mind... and you will likely thereafter have a very cautious view on the whole subject.
 
Cryptic said:
As a side note Father Malachi Martin implies that both of you are right. Genuine demonic possession is very rare and some evangelical protestants pastors often mislable mental illness or drug addiction as demonic possession.

At the same time, a person can increase their still remote chances of being possessed either directly (direct invitation) or to varying degrees, indirectly (engage in occult activities, have a certain personality type that attracts demons etc.). In addition, some possessions can occur as the result of the possessed person being given a "trigger item" by a witch. Father Matin did not describe witches as a woman in a pointy hat, but rather as a person who is both fully evil and actively serving Satan. Fortunately, such individuals are also very rare.
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I am dubious about Malachi Martin, who was an influence on psychiatrist M. Scott Peck, author of People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil, a book that helped me to understand my parents, both of them malignant narcissists, and about which I have thought frequently since its publication in 1983. Anyway, I was checking Peck's Wiki entry and found this reference, which discusses Martin, in the bib: Books: The devil you know
 
Goshin said:
I agree, in general. However, if you ever experience the real thing, there will be no doubt in your mind... and you will likely thereafter have a very cautious view on the whole subject.
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There is no doubt in my mind. But in my opinion, here's the reason not to "dabble": Jesus said not to. He didn't say it wasn't real; He said not to fool with it.
 
Monserrat said:
We've had different experiences, it happens, I'm not trying to say his didn't happen I'm just expressing my own opinion. I don't think dwelling on them causes them to be drawn to you I think it causes your mind to be more susceptible to "seeing them" or "feeling" something that may not be there.

I believe that most "spirits" and "demons" are nothing more then our imaginations hard at work it's why the catholic church requires a lot of evidence before doing an exorcism because most of the time it's a health issue with the individual or a hoax.
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I've deleted my questions - I misread your post. Now I understand where you're coming from.
 
nota bene said:
I am dubious about Malachi Martin, who was an influence on psychiatrist M. Scott Peck, author of People of the Lie: The Hope for Healing Human Evil, a book that helped me to understand my parents, both of them malignant narcissists, and about which I have thought frequently since its publication in 1983.
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Peck wrote a book about his own excorcism experiences and spoke very highly of Martin's expertise. You may find the book very interesting.
http://www.amazon.com/Glimpses-Devil-Psychiatrists-Possession-Redemption/dp/0743254678

For Peck, Martin was the foremost expert on the subject of demonic possession. I think Martin even trained him. Peck, though protestant, even adopted Father Martin's methodology of never attempting an excorcism with out first having the approval of the church hierarchy (that took some creativity as many Protestant's don't have a hierarchy per se. Even still, Peck sought out a recognized protestant Bishop before starting an excorcism.

Peck's praise aside, I think that Father Martin was both the leading expert in demonic possession and also.... a strange character.
 
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Cryptic said:
Peck wrote a book about his own excorcism experiences and spoke very highly of Martin's expertise. You may find the book very interesting.
Glimpses of the Devil: A Psychiatrist's Personal Accounts of Possession, Exorcism, and Redemption: M. Scott Peck: 9780743254670: Amazon.com: Books

For Peck, Martin was the foremost expert on the subject of demonic possession. I think Martin even trained him. Peck, though protestant, even adopted Father Martin's methodology of never attempting an excorcism with out first having the approval of the church hierarchy (that took some creativity as many Protestant's don't have a hierarchy per se. Even still, Peck sought out a recognized protestant Bishop before starting an excorcism.

Peck's praise aside, I think that Father Martin was both the leading expert in demonic possession and also.... a strange character.
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Outstanding recommendation. I will check that out. I wonder if he has ever been on the show Coast to Coast to talk about this.
 
Goshin said:
Hm. If I seemed to say that simply listening to this show or watching horror movies would draw demonic attention to you in and of itself, then I was a victim of my own brevity, because that wasn't what I meant.

I rather like horror movies myself. Most of them... some of them touch on things that are too close to reality for my comfort, at times.


To wit: there is a difference between a casual and passing interest, and an obsessive interest, yes? Of course there is. Yet most obsessions begin more casually and gradually progress. Somewhere along the way it may become mentally unhealthy... or worse. If you ever listen to any of these late-nite black-helo shows, you'll hear a lot of people who have become obsessed with these things.


Thus my usual suggestion: in brief, avoid.
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Thanks. That helps to clarify a bit. I come from a family who thinks that if you put on a fictional show about demons then it will essentially bring them into your life, which never made any sense to me.
 
SayMyName said:
Outstanding recommendation. I will check that out. I wonder if he has ever been on the show Coast to Coast to talk about this.
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Thanks for the compliment. I think you will enjoy the book. In it, Peck detailed Father Martin's qualifications and also gave alot of details about some excorcisms that he (Peck) performed.
 
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Monserrat said:
Thanks. That helps to clarify a bit. I come from a family who thinks that if you put on a fictional show about demons then it will essentially bring them into your life, which never made any sense to me.
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Ah I see. My fault, I wasn't clear, but no I certainly didn't intend to say that.
 
SayMyName said:
Outstanding recommendation. I will check that out. I wonder if he has ever been on the show Coast to Coast to talk about this.
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I think I remember reading a year or two ago, that he died awhile back. I didn't hear about it when it happened, and I never really investigated the matter any further. When I was younger, I really enjoyed his earlier books, but as he got more into the (what I consider) religious end of the spectrum in his writing, I became less interested. Nothing against religion, as I believe it serves a great purpose for some people- I just preferred a little more objective view, which Peck seemed to have had when he was younger.
 
lizzie said:
I think I remember reading a year or two ago, that he died awhile back. I didn't hear about it when it happened, and I never really investigated the matter any further. When I was younger, I really enjoyed his earlier books, but as he got more into the (what I consider) religious end of the spectrum in his writing, I became less interested. Nothing against religion, as I believe it serves a great purpose for some people- I just preferred a little more objective view, which Peck seemed to have had when he was younger.
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I've only read The People of the Lie. It really helped me to understand the unfathomable, and in the main, it's about his psychiatric patients. He does mention a couple of exorcisms he witnessed, but it was the bulk of the book's substance that resonated because of my own experiences. T

he patient that most stood out to me was the young man whose parents couldn't understand what was wrong with him as he began "acting out."

His brother had committed suicide the year before, and the parents gave this boy the brother's gun as his Christmas present and didn't see the problem with that.

What I got from the book was that people (narcissists) who consistently make selfish choices eventually narrow their own path to the point that there is no way out. I've certainly seen this with one of my siblings, who is a lifelong pathological liar. Doesn't even know the difference between fact and fiction anymore.

One question is whether the rare/occasional mental patient isn't "crazy" but, rather, evil. I don't like thinking about it, but can someone simply be evil?
 
nota bene said:
What I got from the book was that people (narcissists) who consistently make selfish choices eventually narrow their own path to the point that there is no way out. I've certainly seen this with one of my siblings, who is a lifelong pathological liar. Doesn't even know the difference between fact and fiction anymore.

One question is whether the rare/occasional mental patient isn't "crazy" but, rather, evil. I don't like thinking about it, but can someone simply be evil?
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In my mind, no. It may just be that I think that because I've never seen anyone who seriously made me wonder. There are (and always have been) a lot of really screwed up people, but if asked whether someone can simply be evil, I don't believe they can. I believe there are almost always circumstances beyond their control which contributed, and they often have no ability to function well in mainstream society.
 
nota bene said:
One question is whether the rare/occasional mental patient isn't "crazy" but, rather, evil. I don't like thinking about it, but can someone simply be evil?
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Yes, from both a secular and a religous point of view.

The secular side (pschiatry) use the term "sociopathy" to describe "evil" in humans. There is a very comprehensive test which tests for sociopathy and purportedly has built in mechanisms to prevent cheating. Anyways, those who score over 19 are said to have sociopathic tendencies. Those between 30-36 are full sociopaths with 36 being the extreme.

On the religous side, evil can be defined as setting no limits on personal behavior to obtain what they want. Most criminals have some sort of fuzzy code that they dont violate. An evil person lacks even this fuzzy code. That does not mean that all evil people commit murders or torture others (many may not "need" to, others may not be interested in it, others may do a risk / reward analysis and decline). What it does mean is that they are inherently willing to do anything to satisfy their wants.

Peck relates that an extremely evil person (36 score socipath?) is very unsettling for normal humans to be around and that there is an instinctual repulsion - though one may not know exactly why the person is so disturbing.

This repulsion exists even if the extreme sociopath / evil person is not threatning. Likewise, Father Martin states that extremely evil people as well as those who are demonically possessed project a disturbing aura as well - the possessed more so.
 
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I've seen different shades to evil, from black to blacker than black, to black dipped in white, to which its shades of gray are many. Each coloration is given a truth. This truth is what makes the other wrong. Evil does not see itself as evil, so says the original story of the Ying Yang symbol; if you thought it of Asian origin, you'd be wrong. This symbol tells a story that is millions of years old and it's about a perpetual conflict between good and evil. But with an opposing dot of color placed on each side, is to say black is not black, black is good, black is white; white is black and evil, is what this symbol is saying and many people believe this, but they are wrong. Black is black and white is white, gray, is the deception in between. It' gray that worries me the most.
 
SayMyName said:
What are your thoughts on these nefarious creatures? Any experience with them? Readers want to know!
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Man is the most destructive, violent, and vengeful demon of all. Anything they can do, we can do better. It wasn't demons who enslaved men, wiped entire races from existence, slaughtered millions at the end of sword or rifle, and it isn't demons who would starve entire civilizations just to make a profit. The demon is just an image made so that man has someone to blame for unspeakable attrocity.
 
I've just watched the movie, "The Conjuring." It's one of the scariest supernatural movie I've seen...it's allegedly based on true characters - Ed and Lorraine Warren, and an incident in 1971. Apparently Ed Warren is the only non-ordained demonologist considered by the Catholic Church.
 
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I agree with several things people have posted throughout this thread. But I just want to give my opinion concerning the doubts. Those who believe that "demons" are those evil spirits that were cast down with Lucifer, then one would have to believe that these "demons" do not and can not have bodies. They are just simply spirits wanting a body and thirsting after a body because they screwed themselves over with their choice in heaven. Another thing is that one with a body will always be more powerful than one without as long as they are in control of their body and don't want to give the "demons" any kind of opportunity to get close to them and their bodies. Those who are weak in faith or are not close to God or aren't obeying his commandments have a greater chance of having a spiritual experience. And let's not forget that Christ himself said that we shouldn't mess with these kind of spirits. But if one would like to have an experience with them all they need to do is ask the good Lord to permit. But if he doesn't permit don't be too upset. These are my opinions and I'm aware that everyone has their own.
 
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