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Can we be good without God?

Cable

Cable

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In my understanding of my experiences and observations of the world and the way it works, I am stating that I don't believe you can be truly good without God.
If there is absolute truth, then there is the possibility of good. Not a transient good fitting the opinions of the times, but a universal good that is always good, always the same, unchanging in time. Further, I would offer that God is the author of Truth. Absolute truth. It makes sense to me that there must be an author to set this in place. The first cause.
Without absolute truth we simply have our opinions. Opinions without absolute truth can be neither good nor bad, they just are, and we personally feel some way about them at the time.
What is good today may be bad tomorrow.
 
Yes you can be good without God.

Your actions could be good or bad in whatever situation.

If you are a believer if the Great Tooth Fairy then you will do good as you see it.

If a thinking person comes along and faces the same situation and does the same action whilst doing good as they see it then the 2 of you have done good by both of your idea of what that means.

The Bible can of course be used to justify any action.

Without it you have to deal with the responsibility of your actions.
 
Yes, you can be good. There are tons of people who believe in no god, or believe in different gods, and are good people.

You need morals and ethics which can be derived from many things, not just religion.
 
God's morals aren't necessarily moral.
 
Cable said:
In my understanding of my experiences and observations of the world and the way it works, I am stating that I don't believe you can be truly good without God.
If there is absolute truth, then there is the possibility of good. Not a transient good fitting the opinions of the times, but a universal good that is always good, always the same, unchanging in time. Further, I would offer that God is the author of Truth. Absolute truth. It makes sense to me that there must be an author to set this in place. The first cause.
Without absolute truth we simply have our opinions. Opinions without absolute truth can be neither good nor bad, they just are, and we personally feel some way about them at the time.
What is good today may be bad tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can be "truly good" period. Good is an opinion not based on fact. And I'm ok with that. If I know that I lived my life according to the morals that I set out for myself I really don't care if you or anyone else thinks I am "truly good".

And also, I am of the opinion that if any religion wants to claim superiority on the morality front, or to be able to claim their God is the judge of all that which is good, then I'd expect that religion to start off with a set of rules and laws that are set in stone and never changing regardless of the times, regardless of the status quo, regardless of modern trends. Every religion that I know of, especially Christianity and the other two Abrahamic religions, fails to meet this standard. They have transitioned from morality being that of stoning sinners, outlawing working on the sabbath, bans on shellfish and pork etc, to no longer practicing stoning, disregarding by in large the sabbath, disregarding by in large the ban on shellfish and pork amongst a myriad of other very clearly stated rules and laws that are located in their founding texts.

Now you might argue that this "goodness" changed because God changed it, but then your whole argument of "absolute truth" goes out the window and is still just a changing morality based on the whims of God, or at least the changing whims of those who write his holy books or interpret his holy books.
 
Yes of course one can be good without god. Convincing someone who is couching his argument in presuppositional thought that this is so is an entirely different cup o tea.
 
a351 said:
God's morals aren't necessarily moral.
Click to expand...

While there is no 'god' in the way you and I would traditionally think of them, there is a cult of veneration in buddhism which is sort of like worshipping gods.
 
Cable said:
In my understanding of my experiences and observations of the world and the way it works, I am stating that I don't believe you can be truly good without God.
If there is absolute truth, then there is the possibility of good. Not a transient good fitting the opinions of the times, but a universal good that is always good, always the same, unchanging in time. Further, I would offer that God is the author of Truth. Absolute truth. It makes sense to me that there must be an author to set this in place. The first cause.
Without absolute truth we simply have our opinions. Opinions without absolute truth can be neither good nor bad, they just are, and we personally feel some way about them at the time.
What is good today may be bad tomorrow.
Click to expand...

My opinion, the capacity for good, fundamental good, is born in us or not. You may say that God put it there but still, there's more good than evil everywhere, including in places where God is irrelevant or unknown.
'Course, learned behaviour, if consistent enough, looks like fundamental good and who'll quibble over the difference?
 
Moderator's Warning:
In the Religion Forum, references to Sky Fairy, Flying Spaghetti Monsters, and similar things (ie Great Tooth Fairy) are to be avoided, as they may be construed as general religion-bashing attacks and infracted.
 
Cable said:
In my understanding of my experiences and observations of the world and the way it works, I am stating that I don't believe you can be truly good without God.
If there is absolute truth, then there is the possibility of good. Not a transient good fitting the opinions of the times, but a universal good that is always good, always the same, unchanging in time. Further, I would offer that God is the author of Truth. Absolute truth. It makes sense to me that there must be an author to set this in place. The first cause.
Without absolute truth we simply have our opinions. Opinions without absolute truth can be neither good nor bad, they just are, and we personally feel some way about them at the time.
What is good today may be bad tomorrow.
Click to expand...


"There is none good, no not one..."

Speaking from the Christian perspective, we are all sinners in need of a savior. Many Christian denominations believe it is impossible for any individual to live without sinning in word, thought or deed.


"Good" may not be the best word for it... "Righteous" is, IMO more the scriptural term. Righteous as in "right with God"... which is impossible without God's grace, and His guidance.



Naturally those who are viewing the question from a non-Christian perspective will see it differently and answer differently.
 
Cable said:
In my understanding of my experiences and observations of the world and the way it works, I am stating that I don't believe you can be truly good without God.
If there is absolute truth, then there is the possibility of good. Not a transient good fitting the opinions of the times, but a universal good that is always good, always the same, unchanging in time. Further, I would offer that God is the author of Truth. Absolute truth. It makes sense to me that there must be an author to set this in place. The first cause.
Without absolute truth we simply have our opinions. Opinions without absolute truth can be neither good nor bad, they just are, and we personally feel some way about them at the time.
What is good today may be bad tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Yes, you can be good.... but from a Christian perspective, you can never be good enough as all fall short of the glory of God, but all is forgiven (you are good enough) by the grace of God. Without God, "good" can only be defined in a socio-philosophic perspective, as good is a behavior, a behavior deals with personal interaction (social) and in context of what is good for a society.
 
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Yes, in fact I am better without god.
The fact that my actions and morality are based on me, and not the threat of punishment, or at the same time, "praying for forgiveness", makes me superior "I thinks."
 
Cable said:
In my understanding of my experiences and observations of the world and the way it works, I am stating that I don't believe you can be truly good without God.
If there is absolute truth, then there is the possibility of good. Not a transient good fitting the opinions of the times, but a universal good that is always good, always the same, unchanging in time. Further, I would offer that God is the author of Truth. Absolute truth. It makes sense to me that there must be an author to set this in place. The first cause.
Without absolute truth we simply have our opinions. Opinions without absolute truth can be neither good nor bad, they just are, and we personally feel some way about them at the time.
What is good today may be bad tomorrow.
Click to expand...

I'm a Christian. I've had more than my share of arguments with atheists here. Let me ask you, though, which is better? Being "good", "moral", "responsible" etc. for the sake of all those things or being those things because you were told to be? I think there are some things that are about as close to near universal truths as possible, murder is bad, taking care of your friends and neighbors is good and I don't think a belief in God is necessary to be a good person.
 
I was a Christian the first half of my life, now I'm an agnostic.

The inner me and my moral code has not changed one bit.

But if a person feels they need religion to be a good person, I say stick with it.
 
Joe1991 said:
I was a Christian the first half of my life, now I'm an agnostic.

The inner me and my moral code has not changed one bit.

But if a person feels they need religion to be a good person, I say stick with it.
Click to expand...

If someone feels they need their religion to be a good person, I cannot help but to worry about them losing their religion.
 
As a side question

If those that feel that without god there are no morals and people would not be "good"

If tomorrow you found out with 100% certainty that there was no god, would you turn from being "good and moral" to a murderous thieving rapist?
 
I think it's possible, but just so much easier to understand what being good is, with the bible. The bible goes into a lot more detail on how a person should live, what kind of things they should embrace and what they should avoid. And as you study it or ponder upon things such as god, good vs evil or what have you, you come to realize WHY you should or should not do certain things. An uneducated mind doesn't get that, and sees the bible or "god" as some kind of mean old daddy who tells you what to do, for no reason. Like rebellious kids. They think dad wants to tell them what to do so he can control them. But the reality is, it's to help set them free. Simple fact is, you can't have real freedom by doing whatever you want.
 
I don't think that it's a question of being good in obedience to scripture. I think the question is, can one be good without what I call 'grace', ie. inspiration from God?
I think yes.
 
Lord Tammerlain said:
As a side question

If those that feel that without god there are no morals and people would not be "good"

If tomorrow you found out with 100% certainty that there was no god, would you turn from being "good and moral" to a murderous thieving rapist?
Click to expand...


That is an interesting question... really I think it is worthy of its own thread.

A closely related question is "If there were suddenly NO LAW, no law enforcement, no impediment to doing anything you wished to do except your ability to do it... what would you do in a lawless environment where you would not be punished for anything?"

For many people I think the answer to both questions is that their behaviors would not change a great deal. A lifetime of studying the human condition, however, has lead me to believe that there is a certain percentage of the population who would indeed engage in some pretty heinous behaviors if they had no fear of punishment or loss thereby... what percentage is hard to say, but I think not less than 5% and possibly as high as 20%...
 
Unless the lack of belief in a deity per se is inherently unethical, then yes, I believe you can be good without God.
 
Goshin said:
That is an interesting question... really I think it is worthy of its own thread.

A closely related question is "If there were suddenly NO LAW, no law enforcement, no impediment to doing anything you wished to do except your ability to do it... what would you do in a lawless environment where you would not be punished for anything?"

For many people I think the answer to both questions is that their behaviors would not change a great deal. A lifetime of studying the human condition, however, has lead me to believe that there is a certain percentage of the population who would indeed engage in some pretty heinous behaviors if they had no fear of punishment or loss thereby... what percentage is hard to say, but I think not less than 5% and possibly as high as 20%...
Click to expand...


I would tend to agree with those numbers

Now the type of acts they would do of course would vary, I don't know how many would become truly violent sadists, but property crimes and general physical assaults would I am sure be quite common
 
Cable said:
In my understanding of my experiences and observations of the world and the way it works, I am stating that I don't believe you can be truly good without God.
Click to expand...
If there is absolute truth, then there is the possibility of good. Not a transient good fitting the opinions of the times, but a universal good that is always good, always the same, unchanging in time. Further, I would offer that God is the author of Truth. Absolute truth. It makes sense to me that there must be an author to set this in place. The first cause.
Without absolute truth we simply have our opinions. Opinions without absolute truth can be neither good nor bad, they just are, and we personally feel some way about them at the time.







What is good today may be bad tomorrow.
Click to expand...




That's your opinion, which you are entitled to and which I and some other people don't agree with.

Where was your God when hundreds of Roman Catholic priests were sexually abusing children all over this planet?

Read more here: BBC News - Benedict XVI defrocked nearly 400 priests in two years
 
Cable said:
In my understanding of my experiences and observations of the world and the way it works, I am stating that I don't believe you can be truly good without God.
If there is absolute truth, then there is the possibility of good. Not a transient good fitting the opinions of the times, but a universal good that is always good, always the same, unchanging in time. Further, I would offer that God is the author of Truth. Absolute truth. It makes sense to me that there must be an author to set this in place. The first cause.
Without absolute truth we simply have our opinions. Opinions without absolute truth can be neither good nor bad, they just are, and we personally feel some way about them at the time.
What is good today may be bad tomorrow.
Click to expand...

"Good" has to be defined by a hard and fast standard. That standard is God. Without God there is no "good and bad" there is only degrees of generally acceptable behavior.
 
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