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Concerning Hagar The Egyptian Slave of Abraham......

MMC

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What do you know of events that took Place with Hagar the Egyptian Slave of Abraham and Sarah.

What is your take when the story comes to Hagar being approached by a an Alleged Angel. Do you think the Hebrews got the story Right?

Also.....what is the Prophecy that was given to her?

Why is there different wording in Christian Bibles over this prophecy?
 
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Okay there are two stories related to this woman.

1. The conception and birth of Hagar's son Ishmael (Genesis 16:1-16). Hagar was an Egyptian slave girl in the tribe of Abraham. She belonged to Sarah, the alpha female of the tribe. When Sarah could not conceive she gave Hagar to her husband as a surrogate. Hagar became pregnant, and God promised that her child would be the ancestor of a great nation. She bore a son, Ishmael.

2. The expulsion of Hagar and Ishmael (Genesis 21:1-21). Hagar was never fully accepted into the tribe despite being the mother of Abraham's child, and in the end she was rejected completely and expelled into the desert. But God protected her twice from Sarah's hatred by sending an angel, and eventually Hagar lived as a free woman, not a slave.
 
I'm Jewish. Here's what I recall from a Talmud story I read a long time ago.

Ishmael was a strong and wild boy, older than Isaac, son of Sarah. There were times that Ishmael would fight and harm Isaac, whom God and destined to be leader of the Hebrews. Sarah was troubled by this and begged Abraham to cast out Hagar and Ishmael. Though Abraham was torn about this, God told him to "listen to Sarah", so he did. During their travels, Hagar and Ishmael lost their way, and without water, Ishmael was about to succumb to thirst. Hagar cried out to God sent an angel who gave them a well of water and saved both. Ishmael, of course, was to become father to all Arabs. This is the prophesy that I think you are referring to. When this occurred, angels came to God and asked him to NOT save Ishmael, knowing the hardships and horrors that Arabs in the future would cause for the Hebrews. God replied that He does NOT punish someone for future sins.
 
I'm Jewish. Here's what I recall from a Talmud story I read a long time ago.

Ishmael was a strong and wild boy, older than Isaac, son of Sarah. There were times that Ishmael would fight and harm Isaac, whom God and destined to be leader of the Hebrews. Sarah was troubled by this and begged Abraham to cast out Hagar and Ishmael. Though Abraham was torn about this, God told him to "listen to Sarah", so he did. During their travels, Hagar and Ishmael lost their way, and without water, Ishmael was about to succumb to thirst. Hagar cried out to God sent an angel who gave them a well of water and saved both. Ishmael, of course, was to become father to all Arabs. This is the prophesy that I think you are referring to. When this occurred, angels came to God and asked him to NOT save Ishmael, knowing the hardships and horrors that Arabs in the future would cause for the Hebrews. God replied that He does NOT punish someone for future sins.



Heya CC.
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Yes it is related.....appreciate you giving me that info. As that which you cite is also different than what the Christian Bibles say. I use the term Bibles plural due to the difference in wording with just that Holy Book.

I don't know if there is more info about her thru the Jewish Religion. I had some questions over it. Like where did Abraham get an Egyptian Slave.....also as you mention Ishmael would become father to all the Arabs. How did they come to this conclusion when the Egyptian Hagar was not Arab.

The story relates thru the Christians that Hagar took Ishmael and fled due to mistreatment by Sarah. In doing so she becomes lost and according to their religion. An Angel comes to her. Gives aid and tells her about the future of Ishmael.

I have had Catholics tell me that the Angel was Gabriel.....my question to them was how can any know if she was lost out in the wilderness and no one knew where she was. Also How did they know that the Angel was not Satan/Lucifer or one of his host.
 
Heya CC.
yo2.gif
Yes it is related.....appreciate you giving me that info. As that which you cite is also different than what the Christian Bibles say. I use the term Bibles plural due to the difference in wording with just that Holy Book.

I don't know if there is more info about her thru the Jewish Religion. I had some questions over it. Like where did Abraham get an Egyptian Slave.....also as you mention Ishmael would become father to all the Arabs. How did they come to this conclusion when the Egyptian Hagar was not Arab.

The story relates thru the Christians that Hagar took Ishmael and fled due to mistreatment by Sarah. In doing so she becomes lost and according to their religion. An Angel comes to her. Gives aid and tells her about the future of Ishmael.

I have had Catholics tell me that the Angel was Gabriel.....my question to them was how can any know if she was lost out in the wilderness and no one knew where she was. Also How did they know that the Angel was not Satan/Lucifer or one of his host.

Based on the story I read, she did not flee due to mistreatment by Sarah. It was Sarah's fear of harm coming to Isaac from Ishmael. Also, in the story I read, the name of the Angel was not mentioned. In fact, if I recall correctly, only TWO angels were ever named in the Torah. And it was God who stated that Ismael would become father of the Arabs. He became a nomad and his descendants became fathers of Arabian nations... making him the father of all Arabs.
 
Based on the story I read, she did not flee due to mistreatment by Sarah. It was Sarah's fear of harm coming to Isaac from Ishmael. Also, in the story I read, the name of the Angel was not mentioned. In fact, if I recall correctly, only TWO angels were ever named in the Torah. And it was God who stated that Ismael would become father of the Arabs. He became a nomad and his descendants became fathers of Arabian nations... making him the father of all Arabs.


Yeah that's another I stated.....that no Angel was named. Also thru the Christians Bibles the wording is different from each other. Like with the International Version and the St. James. Which is speaking of when she took off and ran away from the tribe. According to their version. Sarah was mistreating her. So she took and was still pregnant. that's when they Said the GOD came to her.

The angel of the LORD found her by a spring of water in the wilderness, the spring on the way to Shur. And he said 'Hagar, slave-girl of Sarah, where have you come from and where are you going?' She said 'I am running away from my mistress Sarah'.'
Genesis 16:7-16.....snip~

Also, as to the wording of Ishmael being born and what that would entail is also differently worded.
 
Early the next morning, Abraham brought Hagar and Ishmael out together. He released Hagar and her son from being slaves of their household. Hagar would now be a free woman, and Ishmael a free man as a teenager. Abraham gave Hagar bread and water for a journey into the wilderness of Beersheba. She and her son wandered aimlessly until the bottle of water was completely consumed. In a moment of despair, she burst in tears. Her son then called to God and upon hearing him, an angel of Yahweh confirmed to Hagar that her son would become a great nation. A well of water then appeared so that it saved their lives. Hagar found her son a wife from her native home in the land of Egypt and they settled in the Desert of Paran.....snip~

Hagar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The part about becoming a great nation and the wording differences comes thru the Christian Bibles. I would think the Hebrews and the Torah would have the original translation.

If any knows it.....feel free to share.
 
What do you know of events that took Place with Hagar the Egyptian Slave of Abraham and Sarah.

What is your take when the story comes to Hagar being approached by a an Alleged Angel. Do you think the Hebrews got the story Right?

Also.....what is the Prophecy that was given to her?

Why is there different wording in Christian Bibles over this prophecy?


Hagar and Ishmael were the result of Sarah and Abraham taking the matter of having children into their own hands. They didn't wait.
It shows that when we do what is contrary to the will of God, we end up with consequences we have to live with. It shows too that sometimes it takes time for the will of God to happen.

The problem of Hagar was that she boasted about her capacity to bring forth an heir - and it implied in the Bible that she rubbed that in Sarah's face.
 
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MMC, are you Captain Courtesy? I notice that Captain Courtesy edited the OP. How is that possible?

You gave MMC a "like." :lamo
 
MMC, are you Captain Courtesy? I notice that Captain Courtesy edited the OP. How is that possible?

You gave MMC a "like." :lamo


No.....I asked him to edit it since I had put the wrong name of the Egyptian Slave and it was to late for me to do so.

I am aware of the stories about her. As well as the difference with the Christian Bibles.
 
I would just like to say that there is no real evidence to suggest, to ever suggest, that the jews were slaves in Egypt.
So the story of the whole thing is most likely BS.
 
I would just like to say that there is no real evidence to suggest, to ever suggest, that the jews were slaves in Egypt.
So the story of the whole thing is most likely BS.

Mornin' RM. :2wave: Course the other question is......where would Abraham and Sarah get a Egyptian Slave.

Do you know what I am talking about with the different wording about the Prophecy of Ishmael.
 
What do you know of events that took Place with Hagar the Egyptian Slave of Abraham and Sarah.

What is your take when the story comes to Hagar being approached by a an Alleged Angel. Do you think the Hebrews got the story Right?

Also.....what is the Prophecy that was given to her?

Why is there different wording in Christian Bibles over this prophecy?

Can you cite the differences among Christian Bibles over the prophecy?
 
Can you cite the differences among Christian Bibles over the prophecy?

I don't know them word for word.....but I do know they are written differently between the king James Version and the International Version.
 
[COLOR="#800000 Course the other question is......where would Abraham and Sarah get a Egyptian Slave.[/quote]

The slave could've been given as a gift (among other gifts) to Sarah by the king of Egypt.


[QUOTE][COLOR="#800080"]There was a severe famine in the land of Canaan, so that Abram and Lot and their households, travelled south to Egypt. On the journey to Egypt, Abram instructed Sarai to identify herself only as his sister, fearing that the Egyptians would kill him in order to take his wife, saying, "I know what a beautiful woman you are. When the Egyptians see you, they will say, 'this is his wife.' Then they will kill me but will let you live. Say you are my sister, so that I will be treated well for your sake and my life will be spared because of you."[12] When brought before Pharaoh, Sarai said that Abram was her brother, and the king thereupon took her into his palace and bestowed upon the latter many presents and marks of distinction. It is possible that Sarai acquired her Egyptian handmaid Hagar during this stay. However, God afflicted Pharaoh's household with great plagues.[13] Pharaoh then realized that Sarai was Abram's wife and demanded that they leave Egypt immediately.[14][/COLOR]
Sarah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



That's why Hagar was referred to as Sarah's slave.


Genesis 16

Hagar and Ishmael

16 Now Sarai, Abram’s wife, had borne him no children. But she had an Egyptian slave named Hagar; 2 so she said to Abram, “The Lord has kept me from having children. Go, sleep with my slave; perhaps I can build a family through her.”

Abram agreed to what Sarai said. 3 So after Abram had been living in Canaan ten years, Sarai his wife took her Egyptian slave Hagar and gave her to her husband to be his wife. 4 He slept with Hagar, and she conceived.

When she knew she was pregnant, she began to despise her mistress. 5 Then Sarai said to Abram, “You are responsible for the wrong I am suffering. I put my slave in your arms, and now that she knows she is pregnant, she despises me. May the Lord judge between you and me.”

6 “Your slave is in your hands,” Abram said. “Do with her whatever you think best.” Then Sarai mistreated Hagar; so she fled from her.
 
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I don't know them word for word.....but I do know they are written differently between the king James Version and the International Version.

Oh, okay. I'll check it out. Thanks.
 
I don't know them word for word.....but I do know they are written differently between the king James Version and the International Version.

The New International Version has been translated to be better understood by this generation, I think.
King James' is a bit harder to read. They came out with a New King James version which translated to easier reading.

But the message are still the same. KJV is the one mostly used by scholars - that's what I've been told.
 
I'm Jewish. Here's what I recall from a Talmud story I read a long time ago.

Ishmael was a strong and wild boy, older than Isaac, son of Sarah. There were times that Ishmael would fight and harm Isaac, whom God and destined to be leader of the Hebrews. Sarah was troubled by this and begged Abraham to cast out Hagar and Ishmael. Though Abraham was torn about this, God told him to "listen to Sarah", so he did. During their travels, Hagar and Ishmael lost their way, and without water, Ishmael was about to succumb to thirst. Hagar cried out to God sent an angel who gave them a well of water and saved both. Ishmael, of course, was to become father to all Arabs. This is the prophesy that I think you are referring to. When this occurred, angels came to God and asked him to NOT save Ishmael, knowing the hardships and horrors that Arabs in the future would cause for the Hebrews. God replied that He does NOT punish someone for future sins.

Pretty interesting stuff. Thanks for the explanation and info.
 
The New International Version has been translated to be better understood by this generation, I think.
King James' is a bit harder to read. They came out with a New King James version which translated to easier reading.

But the message are still the same. KJV is the one mostly used by scholars - that's what I've been told.


Heya Tosca. :2wave: Both messages are saying the same thing about that prophecy.....they are just worded differently.
 
The conflict between the Jews and the Arabs goes back to Isaac and Ishmael. The Arabs believe Ishmael is the son of promise, while Jews and Christians understand from the Bible that Isaac is.
 
The conflict between the Jews and the Arabs goes back to Isaac and Ishmael. The Arabs believe Ishmael is the son of promise, while Jews and Christians understand from the Bible that Isaac is.

Heya LM. :2wave: Yeah.....I know this Part. Course some say Hagar was given to Sarah from an Egyptian. Yet this does not account for the different wording over that Prophecy.

Moreover all were being told.....that Ishmael and his line would come. That they would do so with their hand raised against their own brother and All others.

Any reason.....all other people of the Earth can't determine what was being said?
 
Heya Tosca. :2wave: Both messages are saying the same thing about that prophecy.....they are just worded differently.

Thanks to you, I've learned that part about where Sarah could've gotten her slave.
 
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