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Gay Sinners

calamity

calamity

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Ok, hypothetical case here. A child molester gets caught and is sent to prison where he dies after repenting and going to church services. However, he really never stopped fantasizing about buggering little kids. Although he really does not want to think this way, resisting with prayer but to no avail, every night he dreams of grabbing a hold of one and locking the kid away in his basement, for repeated raping once he is freed from jail. But, since he died, he never had to deal with this desire to continue raping children. God let him off the hook. if you will.

On the other side of town, on the same day the child molester dies, a gay couple returning home from benefit concert for the homeless and starving, a cause for which they donate a significant portion of their income and dedicate much time, are T-Boned at an intersection by a crazed former soldier running from the police. Both gay men die instantly.

Does God really allow the child molester into heaven while turning away the gay men?
 
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The thought is a sin too. Ask Jimmy Carter. But a child molester could truly repent and go to heaven.
calamity said:
Ok, hypothetical case here. A child molester gets caught and is sent to prison where he dies after repenting and going to church services. However, he really never stopped fantasizing about buggering little kids. Although he really does not want to think this way, every night he dreams of grabbing a hold of one and locking him away in his basement once he is freed from jail. But, since he died, he never had to deal with this desire to continue raping children. God let him off the hook. if you will.

On the other side of town, on the same day the child molester dies, a gay couple returning home from benefit concert for the homeless and starving, where they donated a significant portion of their income and dedicate much time, are T-Boned at an intersection by a crazed former soldier running from the police. Both gay men die instantly.

Does God really allow the child molester into heaven while turning away the gay men?
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God decides such things, not man.
 
calamity said:
Ok, hypothetical case here. A child molester gets caught and is sent to prison where he dies after repenting and going to church services. However, he really never stopped fantasizing about buggering little kids. Although he really does not want to think this way, resisting with prayer but to no avail, every night he dreams of grabbing a hold of one and locking the kid away in his basement, for repeated raping once he is freed from jail. But, since he died, he never had to deal with this desire to continue raping children. God let him off the hook. if you will.

On the other side of town, on the same day the child molester dies, a gay couple returning home from benefit concert for the homeless and starving, a cause for which they donate a significant portion of their income and dedicate much time, are T-Boned at an intersection by a crazed former soldier running from the police. Both gay men die instantly.

Does God really allow the child molester into heaven while turning away the gay men?
Click to expand...

Anyone who believes in God the "right way" has no answer to your question. It's above his pay grade.
 
mak2 said:
The thought is a sin too. Ask Jimmy Carter. But a child molester could truly repent and go to heaven.
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Yeah...but does that really make sense? Both the gay and the molester have urges they cannot control. The molester harms people but he dies in prison where he is praying away his urges, to no avail, but the bars keep him from being able to pursue his demented harmful and illegal activity.

The other two never hurt anyone, never violated any laws. They too perhaps wish they were not this way, but God made them gay. Resisting is futile. After all they are young healthy males with significant sex drives. Celibacy is not an option, nor is heterosexual sex. Why would God punish them?
 
MaggieD said:
Anyone who believes in God the "right way" has no answer to your question. It's above his pay grade.
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Should it be that way? I mean, should we as thinking intelligent beings simply accept certain things as "God's Word"?

I guess, I can't quite accept that, especially since I am not sure that what I am consistently told is "God's Word" has anything to do with the real God. I mean, for me, my idea of a God does not forgive a child molester while punishing a loving couple who simply do what they were created to do.
 
calamity said:
Should it be that way? I mean, should we as thinking intelligent beings simply accept certain things as "God's Word"?

I guess, I can't quite accept that, especially since I am not sure that what I am consistently told is "God's Word" has anything to do with the real God. I mean, for me, my idea of a God does not forgive a child molester while punishing a loving couple who simply do what they were created to do.
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Well, if you're asking me, I'm a pick-and-choose believer. I live as good a life a I can...I recognize goodness in others...and I'm betting I'm just as "right" as anyone else. In my life, I'd forgive all three of them in the end. I rather think God does, too.
 
I dont think gay changes the sin. In other words I dont think me doing some woman I am not married to is any differnet than a couple of gays doing it. It is all sins,
calamity said:
Yeah...but does that really make sense? Both the gay and the molester have urges they cannot control. The molester harms people but he dies in prison where he is praying away his urges, to no avail, but the bars keep him from being able to pursue his demented harmful and illegal activity.

The other two never hurt anyone, never violated any laws. They too perhaps wish they were not this way, but God made them gay. Resisting is futile. After all they are young healthy males with significant sex drives. Celibacy is not an option, nor is heterosexual sex. Why would God punish them?
Click to expand...
 
mak2 said:
I dont think gay changes the sin. In other words I dont think me doing some woman I am not married to is any differnet than a couple of gays doing it. It is all sins,
Click to expand...

I agree with that, actually. One thing the Bible never speaks to is "degree of sin". "Thou shalt not steal" and "Thou shall not kill" seem pretty much equal.
 
calamity said:
Ok, hypothetical case here. A child molester gets caught and is sent to prison where he dies after repenting and going to church services. However, he really never stopped fantasizing about buggering little kids. Although he really does not want to think this way, resisting with prayer but to no avail, every night he dreams of grabbing a hold of one and locking the kid away in his basement, for repeated raping once he is freed from jail. But, since he died, he never had to deal with this desire to continue raping children. God let him off the hook. if you will.

On the other side of town, on the same day the child molester dies, a gay couple returning home from benefit concert for the homeless and starving, a cause for which they donate a significant portion of their income and dedicate much time, are T-Boned at an intersection by a crazed former soldier running from the police. Both gay men die instantly.

Does God really allow the child molester into heaven while turning away the gay men?
Click to expand...
If you are truly concerned about it, I'll have good thoughts for you. Here's to hoping someday you can overcome and find peace.
 
mak2 said:
I dont think gay changes the sin. In other words I dont think me doing some woman I am not married to is any differnet than a couple of gays doing it. It is all sins,
Click to expand...

I think if both couples, the straight and the gay, are unmarried and consenting adults, it is not a sin.
 
VanceMack said:
If you are truly concerned about it, I'll have good thoughts for you. Here's to hoping someday you can overcome and find peace.
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I'm at peace...I'm lucky enough to be straight and happily married. BUt, I am also smart enough to know that but for the grace of my god, I could have been born as the child molester or one of the gay guys in the car getting smashed in the driver's side door.
 
Ok, it is a sin if you are a Christian, but I dont believe they are different.
calamity said:
I think if both couples, the straight and the gay, are unmarried and consenting adults, it is not a sin.
Click to expand...
 
calamity said:
Ok, hypothetical case here. A child molester gets caught and is sent to prison where he dies after repenting and going to church services. However, he really never stopped fantasizing about buggering little kids. Although he really does not want to think this way, resisting with prayer but to no avail, every night he dreams of grabbing a hold of one and locking the kid away in his basement, for repeated raping once he is freed from jail. But, since he died, he never had to deal with this desire to continue raping children. God let him off the hook. if you will.
Click to expand...

Nope. God does not "let you off the hook" if you are incapable of fulfilling evil desires. God offers Salvation in return for Repentance.

On the other side of town, on the same day the child molester dies, a gay couple returning home from benefit concert for the homeless and starving, a cause for which they donate a significant portion of their income and dedicate much time, are T-Boned at an intersection by a crazed former soldier running from the police.
Click to expand...

That's an interesting completely unnecessary addendum. Gotta look out for those crazed former soldiers, I guess. They all got PTSD, I tell ya.

Both gay men die instantly.

Does God really allow the child molester into heaven while turning away the gay men?
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1. No one in this thread or forum is on the "who gets into Heaven" committee.

2. That being said, it would depend on the gay men. You have attempted to paint a scenario where their works should gain them salvation, but none of us can be saved through works.
 
mak2 said:
Ok, it is a sin if you are a Christian, but I dont believe they are different.
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Clearly a crossroads. I would say it's not anymore or less a sin, even for a Christian, than is eating shellfish or not stoning your children for misbehaving. That does seem to be the big debate out there: where do Old Testament edicts pf brimstone and fire end and New Testament teachings about love begin.
 
calamity said:
Ok, hypothetical case here. A child molester gets caught and is sent to prison where he dies after repenting and going to church services. However, he really never stopped fantasizing about buggering little kids. Although he really does not want to think this way, resisting with prayer but to no avail, every night he dreams of grabbing a hold of one and locking the kid away in his basement, for repeated raping once he is freed from jail. But, since he died, he never had to deal with this desire to continue raping children. God let him off the hook. if you will.

On the other side of town, on the same day the child molester dies, a gay couple returning home from benefit concert for the homeless and starving, a cause for which they donate a significant portion of their income and dedicate much time, are T-Boned at an intersection by a crazed former soldier running from the police. Both gay men die instantly.

Does God really allow the child molester into heaven while turning away the gay men?
Click to expand...

Why would I want to spend eternity with a God who cares more about my sexuality than whether or not I lived my life as a good person?
 
cpwill said:
Nope. God does not "let you off the hook" if you are incapable of fulfilling evil desires. God offers Salvation in return for Repentance.



That's an interesting completely unnecessary addendum. Gotta look out for those crazed former soldiers, I guess. They all got PTSD, I tell ya.
Click to expand...

It's in the news...


After brain surgery to remove a tumor, National Guard veteran Brian Newt Beaird became increasingly paranoid and erratic, according to his family. During an hour-long police chase, he called his father to ask why the police were chasing him. After hitting another car, Mr. Beaird was shot approximately twenty times trying to run from the LAPD, which had him surrounded. His 80-year-old father watched it happening live.



1. No one in this thread or forum is on the "who gets into Heaven" committee.

2. That being said, it would depend on the gay men. You have attempted to paint a scenario where their works should gain them salvation, but none of us can be saved through works.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the claim in 2 tend to override what was said 1?
 
calamity said:
Clearly a crossroads. I would say it's not anymore or less a sin, even for a Christian, than is eating shellfish or not stoning your children for misbehaving. That does seem to be the big debate out there: where do Old Testament edicts pf brimstone and fire end and New Testament teachings about love begin.
Click to expand...


Actually the limits on OT law and NT believers is well defined in the book of Acts. We are not subject to most of OT law.
 
CriticalThought said:
Why would I want to spend eternity with a God who cares more about my sexuality than whether or not I lived my life as a good person?
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I can't imagine why you would think your Father cares more about your sexuality than whether you tried to be good all your life.

To repeat what's already been said on this thread in other ways, only God knows the hearts of His children.
 
nota bene said:
I can't imagine why you would think your Father cares more about your sexuality than whether you tried to be good all your life.

To repeat what's already been said on this thread in other ways, only God knows the hearts of His children.
Click to expand...

Good. Then he knows how many times I resist murder on a daily basis. :mrgreen:
 
calamity said:
I think if both couples, the straight and the gay, are unmarried and consenting adults, it is not a sin.
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But that's what you personally think. We can think anyway we want and believe everything is right.....but that is not really the question, is it?

Does GOD see it as a sin?
 
For those who are really interested on this subject, here's an excerpt from an article by William Lane Craig.



A Christian Perspective on Homosexuality
William Lane Craig

A frank attempt to deal with the question of whether homosexuality is immoral.

This is the Christian understanding of right and wrong. There really is such a being as God, who created the world and made us to know Him. He really has commanded certain things. We really are morally obligated to do certain things (and not to do others). Morality isn’t just in your mind. It’s real. When we fail to keep God’s commandments, we really are morally guilty before Him and need His forgiveness. The problem isn’t just that we feel guilty; we really are guilty, regardless of how we feel. I might not feel guilty because I have an insensitive conscience, one that’s dulled by sin; but if I’ve broken God’s law, I am guilty, regardless of how I feel.

So, for example, if the Nazis had won World War II and succeeded in brainwashing or exterminating everyone who disagreed with them, so that everybody would think the Holocaust had been good, it would still have been wrong, because God says it is wrong, regardless of human opinion. Morality is based in God, and so real right and wrong exist and are unaffected by human opinions.

I’ve emphasized this point because it’s so foreign to what a lot of people in our society think today. Today so many people think of right and wrong, not as matters of fact, but as matters of taste. For example, there isn’t any objective fact that broccoli tastes good. It tastes good to some people, but tastes bad to others. It may taste bad to you, but it tastes good to me! People think it’s the same with moral values. Something may seem wrong to you, but right to me. There isn’t any real right or wrong. It’s just a matter of opinion.

Now if there is no God, then I think these people are absolutely correct. In the absence of God everything becomes relative. Right and wrong become relative to different cultures and societies. Without God who is to say that one culture’s values are better than another’s? Who’s to say who is right and who is wrong? Where do right and wrong come from? Richard Taylor, who is a prominent American philosopher—and not a Christian by the way—, makes this point very forcefully. Look carefully at what he says:

Do you catch what even this non-Christian philosopher is saying? If there is no God, no divine lawgiver, then there is no moral law. If there is no moral law, then there is no real right and wrong. Right and wrong are just human customs and laws that vary from society to society. Even if they all agree, they’re still just human inventions.

So if God does not exist, right and wrong do not exist either. Anything goes, including homosexuality. So one of the best ways to defend the legitimacy of the homosexual lifestyle is to become an atheist. But the problem is that many defenders of homosexuality don’t want to become atheists. In particular, they do want to affirm that right and wrong exist. So you hear them making moral judgements all the time, for example: “It is wrong to discriminate against homosexuals.” And these moral judgements aren’t meant to be just relative to a culture or society. They would condemn a society like Nazi Germany which threw homosexuals into concentration camps, along with Jews and other undesirables. When Colorado passed an amendment prohibiting special rights for homosexuals, Barbara Streisand called for a boycott of the state, saying, “The moral climate in Colorado has become unacceptable.”


Read more: A Christian Perspective on Homosexuality | Reasonable Faith
 
God does exist, and right and wrong do too. You can love your gay brothers and sisters without agreeing about homosexuality itself. Families right here on earth do it every single day.
 
mak2 said:
The thought is a sin too. Ask Jimmy Carter. But a child molester could truly repent and go to heaven.
Click to expand...

This mentality only discourages gays from staying celibate. They simply cannot win, when every gay thought they have is a "sin." It becomes too exhausting to beat yourself up all the time. And yeah, jimmy carter has a direct line to the divine :roll:
 
calamity said:
Ok, hypothetical case here. A child molester gets caught and is sent to prison where he dies after repenting and going to church services. However, he really never stopped fantasizing about buggering little kids. Although he really does not want to think this way, resisting with prayer but to no avail, every night he dreams of grabbing a hold of one and locking the kid away in his basement, for repeated raping once he is freed from jail. But, since he died, he never had to deal with this desire to continue raping children. God let him off the hook. if you will.

On the other side of town, on the same day the child molester dies, a gay couple returning home from benefit concert for the homeless and starving, a cause for which they donate a significant portion of their income and dedicate much time, are T-Boned at an intersection by a crazed former soldier running from the police. Both gay men die instantly.

Does God really allow the child molester into heaven while turning away the gay men?
Click to expand...

If god is a good god, then being gay is not a sin. If god is an evil god, then being gay could be a sin. We must judge supposed gods according to our justice, and there is absolutely zero justice in having being gay a sin.
 
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