Evidence for the Bible / God[W:14]

Evidence for the Bible / God

Critics claim there is no evidence for God or the Bible / New Testament. Many scholars have been refuting that idea for centuries, noting archaeological evidence, fulfilled Messianic prophecies, and so on.

This thread is for debate on those issues.

Explain how the entire globe is supposed to get flooded?

Logicman said:

Evidence for the Bible / God

Critics claim there is no evidence for God or the Bible / New Testament. Many scholars have been refuting that idea for centuries, noting archaeological evidence, fulfilled Messianic prophecies, and so on.

This thread is for debate on those issues.

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I wouldn't say there is NO evidence of certain things in the bible, however, they tend to be exaggerated quite a bit.

The flood prolly did happen in some way, in part of the region. Doubt it happened to the WHOLE planet at the same time. Also, there is no way to put EVERY animal in a region, two by two as the bible suggested.

I believe that the "miracles" of Moses and Jesus were also exaggerated (or made up) and amounted to parlor tricks.

Rising from the dead? Exaggerated IMO. I think a group of people took him out of the tomb and then made up the story.

I could list some more, but I think you get the point. I don't believe there is NO evidence, I just believe the bible exaggerated or in some cases flat out made it up IMO.

The German said:

Explain how the entire globe is supposed to get flooded?

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The bible doesn't claim that the entire globe was flooded, unless you get into some very ridiculous translations.

Not sure what the limits to such a debate are on this sub forum so I'll renege on this one. Thanks.

TheNextEra said:

I wouldn't say there is NO evidence of certain things in the bible, however, they tend to be exaggerated quite a bit.

The flood prolly did happen in some way, in part of the region. Doubt it happened to the WHOLE planet at the same time. Also, there is no way to put EVERY animal in a region, two by two as the bible suggested.

I believe that the "miracles" of Moses and Jesus were also exaggerated (or made up) and amounted to parlor tricks.

Rising from the dead? Exaggerated IMO. I think a group of people took him out of the tomb and then made up the story.

I could list some more, but I think you get the point. I don't believe there is NO evidence, I just believe the bible exaggerated or in some cases flat out made it up IMO.

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Here's something to think about:

Documenting A Miracle « The Righter Report

Logicman said:

Here's something to think about:

Documenting A Miracle « The Righter Report

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It's like anything else, it's based off very few accountings and there is no ability to fact check.

Let me ask you, if I came up to you and I told you and everyone else I saw someone do the same things that Jesus was recorded to do AND he died and was ressurrected......I would be commited or at the very least called a liar.

Another point to consider is have someone write about an event right now and what people were doing and saying and in 40 years write about the same event without looking at what you wrote. They will be vastly different. This is how the bible was formed.

I actualy dont care if people believe it to be true or not.

When people start forcing their religious views on others through laws, disengage from social life and form a parallel society or when they ridicule science and academia - limits are reached.

We are experiencing this here with the muslim minority and from what I see and hear Americans are expiriencing this from evangelical fundermentalists.

TheNextEra said:

It's like anything else, it's based off very few accountings and there is no ability to fact check.

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That's the nature of ancient history. But the reports are there and verify what occurred.

TheNextEra said:

Let me ask you, if I came up to you and I told you and everyone else I saw someone do the same things that Jesus was recorded to do AND he died and was ressurrected......I would be commited or at the very least called a liar.

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You'd have to bring eleven apostles and some 500 witnesses (1 Corinthians 15) with you to begin your story. Then you'd have to make the sun go dark at noon day for all the world to see.

TheNextEra said:

Another point to consider is have someone write about an event right now and what people were doing and saying and in 40 years write about the same event without looking at what you wrote. They will be vastly different. This is how the bible was formed.

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There are multiple, independent sources, such as the Gospels, plus various epistles and extra Biblical writings, which confirm or speak to the events in the life of Christ. I think you'd like to wish them away or make them of no avail but that isn't happening.

The German said:

I actualy dont care if people believe it to be true or not.

When people start forcing their religious views on others through laws, disengage from social life and form a parallel society or when they ridicule science and academia - limits are reached.

We are experiencing this here with the muslim minority and from what I see and hear Americans are expiriencing this from evangelical fundermentalists.

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You left out the preachers of political correctness. Personally, I prefer the Word of God to those losers.

Logicman said:

You left out the preachers of political correctness. Personally, I prefer the Word of God to those losers.

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"Political correctness"..... So everyone who does not base his policies on your religious beliefs is simply a "preacher of political correctness" and therefor to be disregarded? Taliban much?

And does your "word of god" have to be debated in a parlaiment or is it the supreme overlord over everything?

The German said:

"Political correctness"..... So everyone who does not base his policies on your religious beliefs is simply a "preacher of political correctness" and therefor to be disregarded? Taliban much?

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Anyone who ignores endearing Biblical principles in their lives is screwed, either here on earth or in eternity, or both.

Logicman said:

Anyone who ignores endearing Biblical principles in their lives is screwed, either here on earth or in eternity, or both.

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O rly?

How does working on a Saturday, having sex out of wedlock and enjoying it, feasting excesively on pork and beacon, slapping someones face if he slappes me, respecting women as equals, defending everyone right to practice any religion, not keeping slaves and respecting people with different sexualities....

screw me?

God is a fascist who imposes totalitarian rules. And if he really exists, I as a proud Republican would see it as my duty to defend the principles of the Republic against him.

Seems to me that if you think someones belief is silly, you should be able to mock it - whether its religion, politics, whatever. Is not mocking a traditionally accepted way to make a point? For Brutus was an honorable man.

Thats the god part of being god. His playground, his rules.

The German said:

O rly?

How does working on a Saturday, having sex out of wedlock and enjoying it, feasting excesively on pork and beacon, slapping someones face if he slappes me, respecting women as equals, defending everyone right to practice any religion, not keeping slaves and respecting people with different sexualities....

screw me?

God is a fascist who imposes totalitarian rules. And if he really exists, I as a proud Republican would see it as my duty to defend the principles of the Republic against him.

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Morton said:

Seems to me that if you think someones belief is silly, you should be able to mock it - whether its religion, politics, whatever.

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In many parts of the world that is also a good way to get killed by the locals. Even in more civilized realms, it is often bad manners and makes the locals disinclined to interact with you.

Is not mocking a traditionally accepted way to make a point? ....

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Actually mocking is most commonly used by those who lack the wit to criticize in any more intelligent manner. Since it also inflammatory, it is frowned upon here.

Nonsense. Some ideas are indeed mock worthy and in some cases its important to devalue those ideas. There's no value in "criticizing" a stupid belief on its merits. Not all ideas are equal.

Goshin said:

In many parts of the world that is also a good way to get killed by the locals. Even in more civilized realms, it is often bad manners and makes the locals disinclined to interact with you.






Actually mocking is most commonly used by those who lack the wit to criticize in any more intelligent manner. Since it also inflammatory, it is frowned upon here.

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Morton said:

Nonsense. Some ideas are indeed mock worthy and in some cases its important to devalue those ideas. There's no value in "criticizing" a stupid belief on its merits. Not all ideas are equal.

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Perhaps. But even so there are often consequences to mockery.

TheNextEra said:

It's like anything else, it's based off very few accountings and there is no ability to fact check.

Let me ask you, if I came up to you and I told you and everyone else I saw someone do the same things that Jesus was recorded to do AND he died and was ressurrected......I would be commited or at the very least called a liar.

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Of course, if you've got nothing or no one to corroborate your claim, you'd be laughed at.


But that's not the case with the Bible. There were several witnesses - hundreds of them - to the risen Christ.

(Simon) Greenleaf, one of the principle founders of the Harvard Law School, originally set out to disprove the biblical testimony concerning the resurrection of Jesus Christ. He was certain that a careful examination of the internal witness of the Gospels would dispel all the myths at the heart of Christianity. But this legal scholar came to the conclusion that the witnesses were reliable, and that the resurrection did in fact happen.

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Testimony of the Evangelists by Simon Greenleaf

Another point to consider is have someone write about an event right now and what people were doing and saying and in 40 years write about the same event without looking at what you wrote. They will be vastly different. This is how the bible was formed.

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Stories about the bombing of Pearl Harbor, or the last Day of Pompeii, or the gas chambers of Hitler, the killing fields of Pol Pot, the assassination of JFK, the biographies of Gandhi, or of Tzu Hsi the last imperial Queen of China, Elvis Presley, etc.., there may be some variations or nuances, yet all these books have one thing in common: MAJOR EVENTS, and major historical facts that really matter are still the same.

Furthermore, you can't compare the current generation from the ancients of the time when oral tradition was a way of life. They were vastly superior when it came to memorizing since it's very much part of the culture.
Current generation - what with all the technological gadgets we now have, had lessened the use of our brains!

The German said:

"Political correctness"..... So everyone who does not base his policies on your religious beliefs is simply a "preacher of political correctness" and therefor to be disregarded? Taliban much?

And does your "word of god" have to be debated in a parlaiment or is it the supreme overlord over everything?

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You forgot the political correctness that stifle freedom of expression and religious belief.

The German said:

O rly?

How does working on a Saturday,

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And they all fall down.....like the dominoes. What started as voluntary is now mandatory.

Practically everyone who works in the service industry are complaining that they don't get their week-ends off!
And of course they're now saying they hardly have time for their children (who are off-school on week-ends).
And society is railing at parents for not spending enough time with their children.
Children are getting obese. More likely because they're eating commercially-prepared food most of the time.
Husbands and wives hardly have time together as a family since usually they don't have the same days off.
So couples claim to have grown apart.....which leads us to the next one on your list.

having sex out of wedlock and enjoying it,

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And having unwanted pregnancies. And herpes. and hiv. and AIDS. And whatever disease that still lurks undetected.

feasting excesively on pork and beacon,

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Clogged arteries. Heart diseases. Roly-poly people.

slapping someones face if he slappes me,

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War.

respecting women as equals,

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Non-issue here. There is always respect for women - in fact, woman is likened to the CHURCH of CHRIST. And men are supposed to love and protect them.

Of course when we say we are all equal - it doesn't mean that an uneducated man (or woman for that matter) can do the job of a surgeon, or an astronaut, or a teacher. You just might as well voice your indignation and fight for the right of a two-year old to be able to run the country.

defending everyone right to practice any religion

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It is good.

, not keeping slaves

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it is good.

and respecting people with different sexualities....

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Respect is one thing. Being forced to accept it as a normal lifestyle is another. Respect runs on a two-way street.

screw me?

God is a fascist who imposes totalitarian rules. And if he really exists, I as a proud Republican would see it as my duty to defend the principles of the Republic against him.

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Of course, that's your opinion. Thank goodness not everyone shares it.

Goshin said:

In many parts of the world that is also a good way to get killed by the locals. Even in more civilized realms, it is often bad manners and makes the locals disinclined to interact with you.






Actually mocking is most commonly used by those who lack the wit to criticize in any more intelligent manner. Since it also inflammatory, it is frowned upon here.

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Blame the OP then. Where can this discussion possibly go given the posed question?

Logicman said:

Evidence for the Bible / God
Critics claim there is no evidence for God or the Bible / New Testament. Many scholars have been refuting that idea for centuries, noting archaeological evidence, fulfilled Messianic prophecies, and so on.
This thread is for debate on those issues.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure if I understand your proposal above, but let me give it a try.

The Bible IS evidence. It is archeological evidence in itself. So that one was easy to pick off. What is it evidence of? Gods interactions with humanity over time. Two down.
The Bible is archeological evidence of Gods interaction with humanity. These are easily observable facts.

tosca1 said:

Of course, if you've got nothing or no one to corroborate your claim, you'd be laughed at.


But that's not the case with the Bible. There were several witnesses - hundreds of them - to the risen Christ.

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There are hundreds of people that think Elvis Presley is still alive as well. Does that mean that Elvis is alive then? Afterall Hundreds have seen him.

Furthermore, you can't compare the current generation from the ancients of the time when oral tradition was a way of life. They were vastly superior when it came to memorizing since it's very much part of the culture.
Current generation - what with all the technological gadgets we now have, had lessened the use of our brains!

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Really? So that's your excuse? Technology? Um before we had techonology we had witnesses of events come up with different accounts.