• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

To Christianity is Islam and Judaism Heathenish or Heretical?

Heretical or Heathenistic

  • Both are Heathenistic

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Both are Heterical

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Judaism is Heathenistic, Islam is Heretical

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Islam is Heathenistic, Judaism is Heterical

    Votes: 1 10.0%

  • Flap-Jacks

    Votes: 5 50.0%
  • Total voters
    10
RogueWarrior said:
Your sources all keep quoting the bible. You have never demonstrated that the bible is a credible reference.
Click to expand...

Sure I have, in other threads, but this isn't a thread on the reliability of the Bible. Make your own thread up on that if you feel the need.
 
ethanUNC said:
Like x1000
Click to expand...

Even if that were true, it would still beat what Berkeley and the Taverns dish out these days! :)
 
Logicman said:
Sure I have, in other threads, but this isn't a thread on the reliability of the Bible. Make your own thread up on that if you feel the need.
Click to expand...

Every time your reference a source, its credibility is questioned no matter what the source is. So every time your use the bible as a source, expect people to point out that it is not credible.
 
lizzie said:
I'm really not sure how Christians themselves don't understand that their own origins are pagan as well.
Click to expand...

My aunt and I had this discussion similar to this a couple years ago. I brought up how Jesus's birthday wasn't even in December and was actually in mid spring, while she maintained that Jesus's birth took place in December.

From what I've heard many times Christmas itself was made to coincide with a pagan holiday and as a result took upon some characteristics of the pagan traditions, hence Santa Clause and Christmas trees. The same could be said for Jesus's Resurrection (Easter), while the date is potentially more accurate.
 
ChezC3 said:
Religion I believe breaks down into 3 parts

1. Ontology
2. Ethics
3. Ritual

1. & 3. are always what the fuss is about. Yet, in my opinion 2. is the only thing that matters.
Click to expand...

I can agree with that as long as it is also known that religion is not the only source of ethics.
 
What the hell is "heathenistic'"?

If you mean "pagan", as in believing in multiple gods/local protectors of roughly equal importance - of course not. All three are monotheistic, and all three actually "believe" in the same Biblical God - the God of Abraham.

"Heretical" also doesn't make much sense, since "heresy" means a deviation from an official norm of worship or religious philosophy. And "official norms" of Judaism, Islam and Christianity are too far apart, to begin with.

Along with other monotheistic religions (the Sikh faith, for example), all three are decidedly "non-heathen". The disagreements over what exactly the One and Only God wants us to do and who are his prophets goes well beyond "heresies".
 
Both sets of beliefs deny the divinity of Jesus as the Messiah and son of God. They do not believe in the salvation brought forth by the sacrifice of God on the cross and as such are heresy when contrasted to Christianity.
 
falcata said:
I was curious about the answer to this since all three are considered Abrahamic religions. This of course revolves around what exactly makes a heretic or a heathen, but since I am unaware what that precedent is I wanted to ask what people generally thought.
Click to expand...

WTF are you talking about? :whothere:
 
Cyrylek said:
What's there to account for? The root myth grows different branches in different places, different environments. Who else could it be?
Click to expand...

It could be two different individuals, based on the vast differences noted in the link. Like the Bible says, God is not a God of confusion.
 
falcata said:
My aunt and I had this discussion similar to this a couple years ago. I brought up how Jesus's birthday wasn't even in December and was actually in mid spring, while she maintained that Jesus's birth took place in December.

From what I've heard many times Christmas itself was made to coincide with a pagan holiday and as a result took upon some characteristics of the pagan traditions, hence Santa Clause and Christmas trees. The same could be said for Jesus's Resurrection (Easter), while the date is potentially more accurate.
Click to expand...

Yes, they needed a way to make it appealing to the pagan masses, rather than just killing them and burning their temples to the ground, so in essence, what those who wielded the power did, was combine some of the doctrine with pagan practices.
 
ChezC3 said:
Religion I believe breaks down into 3 parts

1. Ontology
2. Ethics
3. Ritual

1. & 3. are always what the fuss is about. Yet, in my opinion 2. is the only thing that matters.
Click to expand...

Well, I can understand how someone might feel that way, but the ritual appeals to our search for meaning in life.
 
Logicman said:
It could be two different individuals, based on the vast differences noted in the link. Like the Bible says, God is not a God of confusion.
Click to expand...

Anyone who read the Bible attentively knows that contradictions and confusion are permeating the great book. If God does exist, He/It is what He is: He doesn't have to change His nature to satisfy our need primitive need for simplicity.
 
Cyrylek said:
Anyone who read the Bible attentively knows that contradictions and confusion are permeating the great book.
Click to expand...

There's no confusion about salvation in Jesus Christ, except I suspect in the minds of spiritual novices.

But there is confusion about how many, and what kind, of "works" it takes with Allah to earn one's salvation. People who believe in him should be staying up nights pacing their kitchen floors pondering that notion.
 
Logicman said:
There's no confusion about salvation in Jesus Christ, except I suspect in the minds of spiritual novices.

But there is confusion about how many, and what kind, of "works" it takes with Allah to earn one's salvation. People who believe in him should be staying up nights pacing their kitchen floors pondering that notion.
Click to expand...

Muslims think the same about Christians: "Poor shmucks misunderstood the meaning of "messiah" and made up ridiculous stories about Prophet Isa being somehow an avatar of God, as if God can be squeezed into a human form - or any form. They must be really scared and confused, trying to deal with all this nonsense."
 
lizzie said:
Well, I can understand how someone might feel that way, but the ritual appeals to our search for meaning in life.
Click to expand...

I believe the ritual is done to keep us mindful.

But as it regards, you know, the hereafter, I can't believe that it is a case of you believe this and the Pearly Gates open wide, but if you believe that and down to hell you go.

I mean personally me myself, I'm an advocate for all religions so long as they follow a certain ethical foundation. I mean, ontologically I'm a panentheist, so I mean, I am God... :allhail Or I am in Him rather. He's eminent and transcendent. I am part of but He is still separate from.

Ethically, here in Western Civilization however, I am stubbornly certain that the Catholic Social Teachings (which align with Islamic Sharia when both are actually adhered to, with Sharia actually offering a bit more freedom of you'd believe it) are the only path possible to develop our society in the way which it ought to be.

See, and this is the interesting thing. Judaism had the Law. Christianity, brought the Spirit. Islam is the synthesis of both.

This country, Western Civ isn't ready for Islam, isn't ready for the strict discipline and high expectations it has for the human character. REAL Islam, not this BS we've been taught to hate. Western Civ can't even live up to the Catholic standards. Again REAL Catholic Standards which yes even the clergy can't always live up to. It went off into protestantism, personal interpretation, relativistic strains of thought, so on so forth, so I can completely see the vehement attitudes as a conditioned response.

As for our meaning in life, this well, this is where my existential flavoring comes into play and I must follow Kierkegaard in that we must choose what we want to be, and then be it, genuinely.

My personal take when delving into the ontological is that when viewing Christ as an example of someone reaching (possibly the only one reaching) theosis in a panentheistic context it actually aligns all three Abrahamic religions up quite nicely.

It is the ethical behaviors adhered to and promoted with the help of ritualization (of whatever different forms) that can be the only possible way to recreate such an experience.
 
American said:
WTF are you talking about? :whothere:
Click to expand...

I was curious if Islam and/or Judaism are heretical or heathenistic in relation to Christianity.

I asked this because pressumably they are all Abrahamic religions, and many would consider worshiping the same god while only their practices differ.

Was the rephrased well enough for you?
 
Logicman said:
Yeah, I read it real good, Racky, and it's right on the money. And now I think I know why you so fiercely defend a works-salvation, unitarian god who acknowledges Jesus as a prophet but evidently doesn't believe him when he (Jesus) says he's the only way to the Father (John 14:6).

And if you had read the link closely you would have seen even more evidence that the God of the Jews is not the god of Islam.
Click to expand...

Where Do I defend a works-slavation??? Show me where I make that claim.

I don't believe Jesus is just a prophet .... I believe he is the only way to the father, he's the messaiah, the only begotten son of God.

I read that link closely, and my point still stands ... but all the strawmen you put up don't.

I read the link real good, Racky, and there's a ton of evidence in it that supports Jesus as the divine "Angel" (Messenger) of the Lord. It's a very compelling argument. If you want to disagree, fine, but your contention that it is simply conjecture is way off base.
Click to expand...

No ... it IS just conjecture ... if you don't think it is take what you think is the BEST scriptural evidence, for it, one, 2 or 3 of the BEST scriptural pieces of evidence, and we can debate it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom