Nasa's Tetrads and John Hagee's Bood Moons

tosca1 · Apr 28, 2015

HonestJoe said:
Or something to do with a Spanish explorer who you then decide was secretly Jewish which somehow makes it to do with Israel, which didn't even exist at the time. :2razz:

As I said though, you could pick any set of years you like and construct a similar pattern of events.

Yes. There have been a couple of actual "crescendos" such as the Reformation or the World Wars. World conflicts, economic shifts and natural disasters have always existed though. One thing that is different today is the mass communication which means we can learn about all of them in great detail pretty much instantly. That creates the false impression that there is more going on now that there was in the past.

I won't argue with that since it's more of speculation on my part.

Chagos · Apr 28, 2015

tosca1 said:
That's nice of you to provide that explanation what a blood moon is.

No one is saying the world is going to "go under."

I suggest you go back to the previous pages and read the explanations. I'm busy.

I'm not saying it either, in the link it is merely used as a figure of speech.

The last paragraph underlining what others have already pointed out, the term of "world under" being merely a generalization of superstitious prophecies (as I'm sure you know).

tosca1 · Apr 29, 2015

Having said that it's more of speculation on my part....I speculate some more:

Who can really say for sure that ..."no, that's all just superstitious prophecies since there's been all that kind of strife and disasters throughout history. That, it's due to technology (communications) that we're hearing more of these things compared to the past.

Communication technology was also given the reason why there seems to be so many dying of cancer if compared to the past. But is it really just lack of communication then?

One thing I know for sure - I only knew of one man dying of cancer (a neighbor) as I grew from adolescent to maturity - but about 2 decades ago, more people I know started dying off from cancer. I've had two mothers from my daycare who both died of cancer, and a father from my daycare who fought cancer!

One thing I know, too. Murder-suicides were hardly ever known during my growing up days. It can't be just because of lack of communication. Now, who's going to deny that it's a phenomenon the way it suddenly sprung up on us (all over the world) - there's a family butchered everyday (mostly by a family member)!

Yes, I can only speculate with the blood moons. But so too, can those who think there's nothing to it.

tosca1 · Apr 29, 2015

Chagos said:
I'm not saying it either, in the link it is merely used as a figure of speech.

The last paragraph underlining what others have already pointed out, the term of "world under" being merely a generalization of superstitious prophecies (as I'm sure you know).

Well, you merely quoted this part without any explanation on your part at all:

The fact is, eight of the tetrads since the first century have coincided with Jewish holidays without the world going under, ...........................

Why bring that up if that's not what you're trying to say?

That seems to be your trademark - back pedaling. :lol:

tosca1 · Apr 29, 2015

Chagos said:
The last paragraph underlining what others have already pointed out, the term of "world under" being merely a generalization of superstitious prophecies (as I'm sure you know).

The list of Doomsday prophecies your source gave is irrelevant! The first one on the list was the Mayan Calendar! :roll:
Will you kindly read and understand the premise of the OP.
We're talking BIBLICAL. Not Mayan, or any other prophecies.

That's another of your trademark it seems, irrelevant arguments you bring in!

tosca1 · Apr 29, 2015

Chagos said:
I'm not saying it either, in the link it is merely used as a figure of speech.

The last paragraph underlining what others have already pointed out, the term of "world under" being merely a generalization of superstitious prophecies (as I'm sure you know).

It's a generalization of all superstitious prophecies! It talks about a particular kind of prophecy!

If you read your own source, DOOMSDAY prophecies and APOCALYPSES! You could say the world going under is a figure of speech - but it still means the same thing! DOOMSDAY! They're prophecies about the "world going under!" What do you think doomsday and apocalypse mean????

Here's what your own source says:

The Best Apocalypses in History

The Mayan calendar
The end of the world was predicted to occcur on December 21, 2012,

Camping and the Rapture
The world was also supposed to end on October 21, 2011.

The Black Hole from Geneva

Y2K and the Millennium Bug
Towards the end of the second millennium, people around the world feared that the world would end simultaneously with the beginning of the year 2000, or Y2K.

The Apocalypse is near - again!

Oh Chagos....

HonestJoe · Apr 29, 2015

tosca1 said:
Who can really say for sure that ..."no, that's all just superstitious prophecies since there's been all that kind of strife and disasters throughout history. That, it's due to technology (communications) that we're hearing more of these things compared to the past.

Nobody (and that isn't what I said). You explicitly stated that there are more of these things happening today than in the past. I explicitly stated that there are not. I also gave one of the reasons many people have a perception otherwise.

tosca1 said:
Communication technology was also given the reason why there seems to be so many dying of cancer if compared to the past. But is it really just lack of communication then?

Nobody has ever claimed that communications is the only reason more people appear to be dying of cancer. More people are dying of cancer. There are negative lifestyle factors and there are also indirectly positive factors - we're generally living longer and cancer is more likely as we get older. I'm sure there is also an element in it being understood and spoken about more. In the past it would be "the big C" that was kept secret where now people are somewhat more open talking about it and there are more campaigns about diagnosing and treating it, all putting it further in to the public eye.

I don't see what any of this has to do with the specific prophecy claims in this thread is about though.

tosca1 said:
One thing I know, too. Murder-suicides were hardly ever known during my growing up days. It can't be just because of lack of communication. Now, who's going to deny that it's a phenomenon the way it suddenly sprung up on us (all over the world) - there's a family butchered everyday (mostly by a family member)!

I'll certainly challenge the use of your individual viewpoint alone as reliable evidence (especially given your vested interest in a specific result). Criminal acts are generally recorded and statistics studied though, so there is no legitimate reason to rely on your (or anyone else's) individual viewpoint. If you want to make this claim, you should back it up.

tosca1 said:
Yes, I can only speculate with the blood moons. But so too, can those who think there's nothing to it.

Speculate isn't all we can do. Where there are people making definitive claims about "blood moons" and events caused by or linked to them we can investigate their claims and challenge their evidence or conclusions. Speculation is great and should be encouraged but a clear line must be maintained between speculation and statements of fact.

Chagos · Apr 29, 2015

tosca1 said:
.................That seems to be your trademark - back pedaling. :lol:

tosca1 said:
...............That's another of your trademark it seems, irrelevant arguments you bring in!

tosca1 said:
...................I won't argue with that since it's more of speculation on my part.....................

My contribution to assist you in talking to yourself.

And you're welcome.:mrgreen:

Chagos · Apr 29, 2015

tosca1 said:
It's a generalization of all superstitious prophecies! It talks about a particular kind of prophecy!

If you read your own source, DOOMSDAY prophecies and APOCALYPSES! You could say the world going under is a figure of speech - but it still means the same thing! DOOMSDAY! They're prophecies about the "world going under!" What do you think doomsday and apocalypse mean????

Here's what your own source says:

The Best Apocalypses in History

The Mayan calendar
The end of the world was predicted to occcur on December 21, 2012,

Camping and the Rapture
The world was also supposed to end on October 21, 2011.

The Black Hole from Geneva

Y2K and the Millennium Bug
Towards the end of the second millennium, people around the world feared that the world would end simultaneously with the beginning of the year 2000, or Y2K.

The Apocalypse is near - again!

Oh Chagos....

I didn't cite the list of Doomsday prophecies that follow on page 2, indeed because they don't relate to tetrads.

I cited, as you have clearly observed yet without understanding anything, the last paragraph of the first page that does refer to previous tetrads.

For the drive by reader that may be wondering what the heck you're on about, it reads

The fact is, eight of the tetrads since the first century have coincided with Jewish holidays without the world going under, so there is no reason to believe that the 2014-2015 tetrad will end the world this time either.

the use "end of world" I have explained.

Since you speak of trademarks, one of your many is clearly that of putting words and meanings that were never expressed into the mouths of others. That behavior can be observed as being habitual.

No idea what that is supposed to achieve, as a debater it sadly serves to disqualify you completely.

tosca1 · Apr 29, 2015

HonestJoe said:
Nobody (and that isn't what I said). You explicitly stated that there are more of these things happening today than in the past. I explicitly stated that there are not. I also gave one of the reasons many people have a perception otherwise.

No Joe, you didn't say that. Chagos did.

Nobody has ever claimed that communications is the only reason more people appear to be dying of cancer. More people are dying of cancer. There are negative lifestyle factors and there are also indirectly positive factors - we're generally living longer and cancer is more likely as we get older. I'm sure there is also an element in it being understood and spoken about more. In the past it would be "the big C" that was kept secret where now people are somewhat more open talking about it and there are more campaigns about diagnosing and treating it, all putting it further in to the public eye.

I don't see what any of this has to do with the specific prophecy claims in this thread is about though.

I should've explained too that that technology/communication was given as a reason (in a past debate I've had) regarding cancer.
It was in the same vein as your response to the "crescendo" analogy.

I'll certainly challenge the use of your individual viewpoint alone as reliable evidence (especially given your vested interest in a specific result). Criminal acts are generally recorded and statistics studied though, so there is no legitimate reason to rely on your (or anyone else's) individual viewpoint. If you want to make this claim, you should back it up.

All I have to do is watch the news daily. Twenty years ago - there's hardly a blimp about homicide-suicides.
Now it's almost a daily occurrence.

Murder-Suicide on the rise nationwide - Detroit Top News | Examiner.com

Murder-Suicide: When Killing Yourself Isn

Caregiver Murder-Suicide on the Rise | The Imperfect Caregiver

Speculate isn't all we can do. Where there are people making definitive claims about "blood moons" and events caused by or linked to them we can investigate their claims and challenge their evidence or conclusions. Speculation is great and should be encouraged but a clear line must be maintained between speculation and statements of fact.

The blood moons in this thread are not said to have caused, or that somehow events are linked with them.
They are said to be signs, that something is about to happen (usually pertaining to Israel).

The last 3 times the blood moons - those sets of 4 - appeared were in 1492, 1948 and 1967.
NASA kept a record of those.....however, Hagee checked out those dates and those dates were significant in Israel's history:

In 1492 the Edict of Expulsion was decreed in Spain.
In 1948, Israel was granted his statehood. Jews came home.
In 1967, that was the 6-day war. Jerusalem was reunited with Israel.

Well, you can try to challenge that - but the fact still remains that those significant events happened on those years that the sets of 4 appeared.

How can you disprove that the blood moons were not meant as a sign to herald those events? You've no concrete evidence!
On the same token, I cannot provide a concrete evidence that says, those blood moons did herald those events (although it is an odd coincidence that all three involved Israel in a historic way).

Thus we both can just speculate! You can speculate that they weren't signs....and I can speculate that they were signs (specially when they all involved Israel in a historic way).

Chagos · Apr 29, 2015

tosca1 said:
No Joe, you didn't say that. Chagos did.

Retract that statement.

AT ONCE!!!

tosca1 · Apr 29, 2015

Chagos said:
Retract that statement.

AT ONCE!!!

OOoops. I retract.

I was thinking of the "generalization of superstitious prophecies" that you mentioned earlier.

And the quote was mine - an hypothetical statement - but I've mixed a part of your comment to a part of Honest Joe's (mass communication).

My apologies.

Chagos · Apr 29, 2015

tosca1 said:
OOoops. I retract.

I was thinking of the "generalization of superstitious prophecies" that you mentioned earlier.

And the quote was mine - an extrapolation - but I've mixed a part of your comment to a part of Honest Joe's (mass communication).

My apologies.

My thanks.

Also thanks for the explanation.

That sort of thing can happen, of course, so, now with the retraction, no hard feelings. .

tosca1 · May 13, 2015

I have to put this here, too since it's connected with the Blood Moons. A must-see for such detailed explanation.
Thanks to Logicman for introducing me to the works of Jonathan Cahn.

This is about the Shemitah.

tosca1 · May 13, 2015

A must-see!

Jonathan Cahn's information about the economic collapses in history that "coincided" with the year of the Shemitah starts on video timer - 21:00.

tosca1 · May 13, 2015

"Only 8 times in 2000 years had you had the 4 blood moons in a row. This would be the 9th time.
But this will be the first time in history that it's happening in a Shemitah year. AND, you have a SUPER BLOOD MOON during the Feast of Tabernacle."

For the Blood Moon explanation, and more of this video timer start on 40:00.

tosca1 · May 13, 2015

Linked to the Blood Moons is the "ELUL 29" which is called the "wipe-out" day.

timer: 48:00

tosca1 · May 13, 2015

The next time these cycle will happen again when it's back-to-back with Pass Over and Feast of Tabernacles,
will be about 500 years from now.

CrabCake · May 17, 2015

tosca1 said:
Did the Bible say that all signs would pertain to Israel? Did the Bible say that all blood moons will be signs for something significant, or is it just some? Is there information that can be gathered - does NASA have a list of blood moons, and if there is such a list, who was documenting events and connecting the dots with the Bible? Who knows.

But the undeniable fact still remains that the past blood moons 1492, 1948, and 1967 involved Israel.
That's the fact.

Your claim of fact is not only deniable but is demonstrably incorrect. There was not a tetrad in 1492, there was a tetrad in 1493-1494. There wasn't one in 1948 either, there was one in 1949-1950. The only one that falls within the dates you give is 1967, which actually occurred from 1967 to 1968. So if that pattern holds, then something significant pertaining to Israel should have happened one to two years ago (since this tetrad began in 2014). It seems like the prophecy already failed. There is no pattern.

tosca1 · May 18, 2015

CrabCake said:
Your claim of fact is not only deniable but is demonstrably incorrect. There was not a tetrad in 1492, there was a tetrad in 1493-1494. There wasn't one in 1948 either, there was one in 1949-1950. The only one that falls within the dates you give is 1967, which actually occurred from 1967 to 1968.

Thanks for pointing that out. Here are the list of those relevant tetrads from NASA.

When four consecutive lunar eclipses are all total eclipses, the group is known as a tetrad. The following tetrads occur during this century:

4. Tetrad: 1493 - 1494

Apparently, the tetrad of 1493 occurred as the Jews were being expelled from Spain, and that period saw them being expelled from Sicily, Italy and Poland.

1949 - 1950

Operation Magic Carpet is a widely known nickname for Operation On Wings of Eagles (Hebrew: כנפי נשרים‎, Kanfei Nesharim), an operation between June 1949 and September 1950 that brought 49,000 Yemenite Jews to the new state of Israel.[1] During its course, the overwhelming majority of Yemenite Jews – some 47,000 Yemeni, 1,500 Aden as well as 500 Djiboutian and Eritrean Jews – were airlifted to Israel. British and American transport planes made some 380 flights from Aden, in a secret operation that was not made public until several months after it was over. At some point, the operation was also called Operation Messiah's Coming.

Operation Magic Carpet (Yemen) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So if that pattern holds, then something significant pertaining to Israel should have happened one to two years ago (since this tetrad began in 2014). It seems like the prophecy already failed. There is no pattern.

"Significant events" does not have to be catastrophic. It also may not be significant to us, but significant to Israel. Israel and the Mid-East conflict had been very much in the news. For all we know, Barack Obama's current cold war with Israel could be the significant event - it didn't just happen overnight.

Posted: 09/11/2012
WASHINGTON/JERUSALEM, Sept 11 (Reuters) - In a highly unusual rebuff to a close ally, the White House said on Tuesday that President Barack Obama would not meet Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during a U.S. visit later this month, as tensions escalated over how to deal with Iran's nuclear program.

Obama Avoids Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu Meeting

The unexpected re-election of Netanyahu could be another significant event for this tetrad.

If ever there was a leader of a friendly nation who the US and its main Western allies wanted to lose an election, it was Benjamin Netanyahu. It didn’t happen. Instead, he is in pole position to lead the next Israeli government, and his victory will make it harder than ever to resolve some of the most pressing problems of a Middle East in chaos.

One reason is that long before his unexpected win on Tuesday, his personal relations with many of his foreign peers were already bad – especially with President Obama, leader of Israel’s protector power, whom Mr Netanyahu snubbed when he delivered his address to Congress last month, condemning in advance any deal Mr Obama might strike with Tehran over Iran’s nuclear programme.

Israel election: Benjamin Netanyahu's win is bad for the 'peace process' and for US progress on Iran - Voices - The Independent

CrabCake · May 18, 2015

tosca1 said:
Apparently, the tetrad of 1493 occurred as the Jews were being expelled from Spain, and that period saw them being expelled from Sicily, Italy and Poland.

Wrong again. Jews were given 4 months, beginning on March 30th of 1492 to leave Spain. So, by April of 1493, when this tetrad began, the Jews had already abandoned Spain 9+ months previously.

tosca1 said:
1949 - 1950
Operation Magic Carpet (Yemen) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wait a minute, your claim was that this coincided with Israel being granted statehood. Now you're switching the "significant event" since your previous one didn't pan out? Doesn't this demonstrate that you can choose pretty much any year you want and find something you can call significant about Israel? It's not much of a prophecy then if it can match pretty much any year you want.

tosca1 said:
"Significant events" does not have to be catastrophic. It also may not be significant to us, but significant to Israel. Israel and the Mid-East conflict had been very much in the news. For all we know, Barack Obama's current cold war with Israel could be the significant event - it didn't just happen overnight.

Obama Avoids Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu Meeting

The unexpected re-election of Netanyahu could be another significant event for this tetrad.

Israel election: Benjamin Netanyahu's win is bad for the 'peace process' and for US progress on Iran - Voices - The Independent

So, this is what your claim about this prophecy ends up being reduced to. Grasping for recent events that someone might be able to call "significant". What a worthless prophecy.

tosca1 · May 18, 2015

CrabCake said:
Wrong again. Jews were given 4 months, beginning on March 30th of 1492 to leave Spain. So, by April of 1493, when this tetrad began, the Jews had already abandoned Spain 9+ months previously.

Wait a minute, your claim was that this coincided with Israel being granted statehood. Now you're switching the "significant event" since your previous one didn't pan out? Doesn't this demonstrate that you can choose pretty much any year you want and find something you can call significant about Israel? It's not much of a prophecy then if it isn't good at predicting anything but can rather be made to fit whatever year and event you want.

So, this is what your claim about this prophecy ends up being reduced to. Grasping for recent events that someone might be able to call "significant". What a worthless prophecy.

I'm going to distance myself from this Blood Moon and refrain from arguing for it.

I'm getting drawn to a position where-in I seem to be promoting it as a fact. I'm not.
I'm simply intrigued by it, and would just wait to see how it turns out. On one hand it seems plausible, but I don't know if it's mostly hype.

Yes, those claims made about the dates of the events don't match up exactly - unless somehow I misunderstood how it was explained, and messed up.

Anyway, thanks to you.....I've googled, and came across an information as how this first came about. I'm not maligning or casting any dirt on the people who first promoted this but there are some red flags, according to this source. My concern is the alleged stated prediction of the Second Coming of Christ, and the alleged history of Mark Blitz.

In 2008 the pastor of a congregation in Tacoma, Washington, by the name of Mark Biltz, began to teach that the Second Coming of the Messiah might occur in the Fall of 2015.
He based this prediction on the pattern of an astronomical phenomenon that he had discovered. His speculation was picked up immediately by the Bible prophecy sensationalists who specialize in playing around with such matters. The result was that Pastor Biltz's theory became an Internet sensation.

The basis of his theory — and not his conclusion — has now been given legitimacy by the publication of Pastor John Hagee's book, Four Blood Moons.

Red Flags
But is Mark Biltz's theory really legitimate? The first red flag of caution that must be considered is the source of the theory. Mark Biltz is involved in what is called the Hebrew Roots Movement.2 This is an anti-Christian, Judaizing movement. Its members have done everything they can to delegitimize the writings of the Apostle Paul. because of his teaching that the Law of Moses was invalidated by the Cross.

more....

Articles - Prophecy - Signs - The Blood Moon Mania

So I'm treading with extreme caution.

tosca1 · May 18, 2015

deleted

tosca1 · May 18, 2015

Since we're talking about possible signs, have you heard about the noises in the sky?
I've only heard about this event(s) today although they've been happening for several years now, and apparently all over the world.

Some say it sounded like trumpets. This guy below said it sounded like ancient trumpet - and he showed one and played it.

Check out the article given in the OP of this topic at the other section.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/off-topic-discussion/224221-strange-noises-sky.html

tosca1 · May 18, 2015

Strange sounds scare town in Canada
Friday, August 30, 2013

Canadian citizens are wondering what the strange sounds were that they heard resonating from the sky yesterday. According to Canada’s CBC news, witnesses were woken up Thursday morning by odd noises that were echoing off hills in Terrace, British Columbia.

Several people called in to report the loud trumpet-like noises that were heard early yesterday morning.

What are these odd noises? That is one question on a lot of Terrace’s citizen’s minds right now. This question may continue to go unanswered. Strange sounds are continuing to be heard all over the world. Officials are left baffled and are scratching their heads.

“At this point, nobody seems to know. The geologists say it’s not in the ground, the Air Force says it’s not in the air, the astronomers say it’s not from space, so we’re running out of options,” one official said.

Strange sounds scare town in Canada | Paranormal