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Proof There Are No Atheists in Foxholes

Paschendale said:
A lot of Holocaust survivors, for example, renounced belief in god because of it. They couldn't fathom the god they had been raised to believe in allowing such a horrific thing to happen. That's one of the reason why so many Jews are really secular.



Based on the rest of that post, it looks like clumsy phrasing to me. I think he meant the opposite.
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I'll take your word for it. That's the sort of line you want to be clearly on one side or the other.
 
Tucker Case said:
What I don't get is the idea from the OP that teachers are not supposed to pray. Where the hell did that idea come from?
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The Constitution forbids governments from taking any actions that would establish a "state religion."

A teacher is more than welcome to pray on his or her own time, or in any private school. But they cannot do it in a public school classroom.


There's nothing that prevents teachers from praying to my knowledge. Why the **** does every disaster have to be turned into something stupidly political? Seriously, WTF.
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Erm.... You're on a Politics web forum. Discussions like these are pretty much the point of its existence.
 
FreedomFromAll said:
There wasnt a classroom at that point.
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Did you not see the part where I explicitly said we should not fault the teacher for praying in that situation?
 
Visbek said:
The Constitution forbids governments from taking any actions that would establish a "state religion."

A teacher is more than welcome to pray on his or her own time, or in any private school. But they cannot do it in a public school classroom.
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They can pray all they want. They could have continual silent prayers running through their heads all day long, even while they are teaching class.



Erm.... You're on a Politics web forum. Discussions like these are pretty much the point of its existence.
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Really? DP exists so that idiots can stupidly politicize every disaster?

I'd have thought it existed to discuss politics in a rational fashion, not to engage in idiocy.
 
Amadeus said:
Am I too sensitive in being a little offended when someone claims to be 'blessed' in these incidents? I understand the sentiment, but it literally means that people less fortunate got the rear-end of the blessing stick.
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Meh, people who talk about being "blessed, et al." probably wouldn't see it that way. They would see the less fortunate people as being blessed in other ways. In fact, many of the "less fortunate" people themselves would view themselves as "blessed." So, I guess you could be offended, but your offense would likely be based in a misunderstanding of what the comments you're offended by actually mean.
 
Aderleth said:
Even if it were true that there are no atheists in foxholes, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement of religion. It amounts to saying that people turn to faith out of desperation and fear.
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It wouldn't be a poor endorsement of religion anymore than it would be a poor endorsement of family, alcohol and other things that people turn to during times of desperation and fear. Just because people use X as comfort doesn't make X bad.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
It wouldn't be a poor endorsement of religion anymore than it would be a poor endorsement of family, alcohol and other things that people turn to during times of desperation and fear. Just because people use X as comfort doesn't make X bad.
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Yeah, turning to alcohol when you're depressed is generally considered a bad thing. Although I'm happy to agree that alcohol and religion have certain attributes in common.
 
Aderleth said:
Yeah, turning to alcohol when you're depressed is generally considered a bad thing.
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I agree and yet the reality that people use alcohol in such a manner does not mean that alcohol, in itself, is bad. What it means is that people can use it in problematic ways. In the same light, that people use religion to comfort themselves does not mean that religion, in itself, is bad. I merely means that people can use it in problematic ways.

*Note: Using alcohol and religion as sources of comfort is not always bad, but for the sake the argument, I'm treating it as such.
 
Your Star said:
Yeah about that............

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That was so embarrassing for Wolf. I guess he just assumed everyone in the "Bible belt" was a Christian and he wanted to ingratiate himself with them. It's annoying on several levels.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I agree and yet the reality that people use alcohol in such a manner does not mean that alcohol, in itself, is bad. What it means is that people can use it in problematic ways. In the same light, that people use religion to comfort themselves does not mean that religion, in itself, is bad. I merely means that people can use it in problematic ways.

*Note: Using alcohol and religion as sources of comfort is not always bad, but for the sake the argument, I'm treating it as such.
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Sure, but in either case, bringing up such examples as if they demonstrated some sort of value or truth about the thing doesn't make any sense. I'd be somewhat surprised if anyone who's religious wouldn't take issue with suggesting that their faith is the functional equivalent of drinking your pain away.
 
Aderleth said:
Sure, but in either case, bringing up such examples as if they demonstrated some sort of value or truth about the thing doesn't make any sense. I'd be somewhat surprised if anyone who's religious wouldn't take issue with suggesting that their faith is the functional equivalent of drinking your pain away.
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I would be surprised too because it isn't true. That is why I'm disagreeing with your implication that the "no atheists in foxholes" statement amounts to an indictment of religion itself. It doesn't. It may amount to an indictment of a particular use of religion, but not of religion as a whole.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
I would be surprised too because it isn't true. That is why I'm disagreeing with your implication that the "no atheists in foxholes" statement amounts to an indictment of religion itself. It doesn't. It may amount to an indictment of a particular use of religion, but not of religion as a whole.
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No, no, no. It's not an indictment of religion as such, but it's sure not an endorsement either. And guess what? You just made the same comparison (alchohol = religion). That's not a favorable comparison to make, and consequently it's a bad argument for theists to raise. It doesn't do them any good, is my point.
 
Amadeus said:
Am I too sensitive in being a little offended when someone claims to be 'blessed' in these incidents? I understand the sentiment, but it literally means that people less fortunate got the rear-end of the blessing stick.
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It's just a way to deal with the random probabilities of life. Mostly a "survivors guilt" sort of thing.
 
Knowledge=power said:
Are you saying God punished them or didn't protect them because they did not believe in him or sinned a lot...? I hope that's not what you're saying. 20 something kids preschool to 3rd grade died in that tornado...
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I'm saying that praying to a deity not to be killed by a massive tornado has no demonstrable effect on the outcome.

In addition, most answers to the problem of theodicy wind up being rather unsatisfying. E.g. a superpowered supernatural deity surely has the power to prevent tornadoes from happening in the first place. Obviously, no such entity intervened. In fact, that deity purported created tornadoes in the first place. How do these states of affairs square with the claim that such an entity is perfectly benevolent?
 
Visbek said:
I'm saying that praying to a deity not to be killed by a massive tornado has no demonstrable effect on the outcome.

In addition, most answers to the problem of theodicy wind up being rather unsatisfying. E.g. a superpowered supernatural deity surely has the power to prevent tornadoes from happening in the first place. Obviously, no such entity intervened. In fact, that deity purported created tornadoes in the first place. How do these states of affairs square with the claim that such an entity is perfectly benevolent?
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Thanks for the clarification. It was just misworded by accident I suppose.

I agree with you.
 
This thread reminds me of something that happened many years ago. I was in the 82nd and was in a formation getting inspected by some major. One of the things that he was wanted to check was our dog tags. On mine, for religion it read "Atheist". When he saw that he stared at me intently for a few moments then went on to the next man. He turned to me and said "There are no Atheists in foxholes".

"Perhaps, sir" I answered. "I have never met any Christians in one either". That pissed him off something fierce. He walked backed to me, glared menacingly for a minute or two, then realized that there really wasn't much he could do about it.
 
This thread reminds me of an observation I made once:

There are no Atheists in brothels.

Seriously, go into one some time. In almost every room you'll hear somebody saying "Oh God, Oh God".
 
It's the same with prisons. Outside, maybe six per cent of the population. Inside, two percent. There's a lot more Christians in American prisons.
 
RGacky3 said:
I'll bet you money she doesn't, what is it with right wingers always wanting to be victims.
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I'll bet money if you rummage through your parents couches you can find enough change to go buy a better sense of humor than the one you have. What is it with the bitter shrill angry hate filled liberals and their inability to laugh?
 
VanceMack said:
I'll bet money if you rummage through your parents couches you can find enough change to go buy a better sense of humor than the one you have. What is it with the bitter shrill angry hate filled liberals and their inability to laugh?
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Probably explains why conservative comedians are so much more successful than their liberal peers. ;)
 
rhinefire said:
Watching NBC Nightly News the day after the Oklahoma tornado a teacher was being interviewed. She said the following, " I covered some of my students with my body and one little girl said 'I love you Ms...... but we cannot die together' ". She went on to say when asked how she replied to the little girl. " I did something we (teachers) are not suposed to do, I prayed".
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This fails on multiple levels. First of all, "Atheists in Foxholes" refers to the idiotic idea that military personnel deployed in combat zones will magically become Christian the second they start getting shot at. Second, teachers aren't allowed to force students into public prayer on school time, it doesn't mean they're forbidden from practicing their religious beliefs. Lastly, this proves absolutely nothing.
 
MaggieD said:
What does this have to do with atheists?
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OK, I'll try to clear it for you....the state institutions do not permit prayer making them atheistic as it is against the policies to offer prayer and all are ordered to adhere except when the chips are down the state can go to hell becasue people will believe despite government forbidding it.
 
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