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The Definition of a "Christian"

tacomancer said:
That is pretty much the thread, thanks Captain!
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That isn't at all, the "proof text" approach doesn't work, you have to take the context. As Jesus said "Not everyone saying lord lord," he also talked about false prophets, James talks about faith without works being dead and so on.

Saying who is and is not a Christian is one thing, salvation is a whole nother thing.
 
RGacky3 said:
That isn't at all, the "proof text" approach doesn't work, you have to take the context. As Jesus said "Not everyone saying lord lord," he also talked about false prophets, James talks about faith without works being dead and so on.

Saying who is and is not a Christian is one thing, salvation is a whole nother thing.
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A sincere attempt to follow and love God will result in good fruit. I have to run to work, so I can't look it up right now, but its in Romans I think.
 
cpwill said:
"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another". The trick is to make sure that those well intentioned wounds are in fact being inflicted by a friend.
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Exactly - if they don't talk about it / read about it / learn about ALL aspects of it . . . the more you know, the less likely you are to fall into misinformation.

The way to avoid that quandary you've presented is to not take other people's words as fact, but to take it as food for thought, and learn from there.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Exactly - if they don't talk about it / read about it / learn about ALL aspects of it . . . the more you know, the less likely you are to fall into misinformation.
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Truth. Christians are exhorted to bury ourselves in the word.

The way to avoid that quandary you've presented is to not take other people's words as fact, but to take it as food for thought, and learn from there.
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:shrug: sort of. At some point you are almost always taking other peoples' words as fact (the airline assures me the plane will fly. I don't know this on my own, but give them the benefit of the doubt as I strap myself into the seat). There is and should be such a thing as authoritative commentary.
 
RGacky3 said:
That isn't at all, the "proof text" approach doesn't work, you have to take the context. As Jesus said "Not everyone saying lord lord," he also talked about false prophets, James talks about faith without works being dead and so on.

Saying who is and is not a Christian is one thing, salvation is a whole nother thing.
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How's that?
 
The Baron said:
It has been my observation here at DP concerning debates on Christianity that two positionson Christianity are always going to be expressed.

1. Non-Christiansare going to lecture Christians about what it means to be “Christian”. Typically they’re rants are both elitist and wrong (although not always the case).

2. Those who think they are Christian (and who are not) espouse what they self-identify as Christian beliefs. These would be beliefs that are un-Biblical.

By those who I say are “not” Christian but claim to be I mean Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, some Catholics (but not all and I would even be hesitant to say “most Catholics”), etc.

So it seems to me that what we need here at DP is a good definition of “Christian”.

A “Christian” is someone who understands that they are a sinner and unfit for a just and holy God and deserve everlasting Hell.

A “Christian” also understands that what a holy God requires the love of God provided when no-less than God, Himself, came to this world in a physical body, born of a virgin and died an excruciating death on a cross. He died to pay the price for their sins and to rescue them from Hell by imparting in them the very righteousness of Christ, Himself.

A “Christian” understands that they are absolutely helpless to save themselves and that Christ’s free gift of grace is all that is required for their salvation--nothing more.

A “Christian” is someone who undergoes a change of heart (vs. a change in position as some would argue, i.e. the “rich man” who must give away all his possessions to obtain eternal life).

I’m sure I could elaborate but that’s really all there is to it.

So what’s wrong with my definition of a Christian?
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For one to "define" a Christian is only slightly less challenging than defining God or love.

It is not for us to define what a Christian is, another fellow did that just fine, it is for us to follow His example, love Him and let others seek to define themselves by His example.

The best we can do is to share our journey to His light and hope with others and hope it helps them, first see that light and then understand that universal love.
 
I grew up Catholic and I left the Church because it seems like they did everything but follow the teachings of Christ.

IMO a Christian is one who listens to what Christ said and implements his wisdom in their daily life. The earliest texts we have of the Bible translated into early Koine did not include Jesus as part of their canon. That's why I don't quite understand why Christians get so hung up about what books like Deuteronomy or Leviticus say, since they come from the Torah and pre-date Christ.

Christ consciousness represents a purity of spirit that is adulterated by much of the other contents in the Bible as modern people now know it. All you need to know about living a good life comes from Christ himself, and his historical deeds. The other stuff comes from the Torah or is political hogwash added after the fact.
 
Northern Light said:
I grew up Catholic and I left the Church because it seems like they did everything but follow the teachings of Christ.

IMO a Christian is one who listens to what Christ said and implements his wisdom in their daily life. The earliest texts we have of the Bible translated into early Koine did not include Jesus as part of their canon. That's why I don't quite understand why Christians get so hung up about what books like Deuteronomy or Leviticus say, since they come from the Torah and pre-date Christ.

Christ consciousness represents a purity of spirit that is adulterated by much of the other contents in the Bible as modern people now know it. All you need to know about living a good life comes from Christ himself, and his historical deeds. The other stuff comes from the Torah or is political hogwash added after the fact.
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The earliest texts of the bible in Koine were of the old testament ... so OF COARSE they don't inlcude Jesus, they were jewish texts, not christian (the bible includes the hebrew/arameic old testament, and the greek new testament), they were written before Jesus was born ....

Christians talk about the old testament because they believe it was inspired of God and the pre-curser to the new testament, the lead up to christ since Jesus was to come out of Abrahams seed and Davids line.

The other stuff comes from the Torah, the prophets, and the apostles ... such as Paul, James (not apostles but highly influencial), John and Peter.
 
The Baron said:

A “Christian” is someone who undergoes a change of heart (vs. a change in position as some would argue, i.e. the “rich man” who must give away all his possessions to obtain eternal life).
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This is the only thing relevant. The rest is just doctrine about thinking the right thoughts about God (as if God cares about that) and devolves into 1st century vocabulary that have no relevance to modern existence.

But your example is exactly wrong: a Christian is a new creation and thus will give away his money, since where your treasure is, there is your heart. There are no wealthy Christians. It is a contradiction in terms
 
head of joaquin said:
This is the only thing relevant. The rest is just doctrine about thinking the right thoughts about God (as if God cares about that) and devolves into 1st century vocabulary that have no relevance to modern existence.

But your example is exactly wrong: a Christian is a new creation and thus will give away his money, since where your treasure is, there is your heart. There are no wealthy Christians. It is a contradiction in terms
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That is total nonsense, the rest is EXTREMELY important, love, doing the will of the father, making disciples, and so on.

The idea there was that a rich man must be willing to give up his wealth in service of others and the kingdom of God, everywhere in the NT wealthy christians were only mentioned in so far as their wealth was used in service of others.

The most important part of the christian message is 2 fold, 1. agape love, unconditional, principled and universal love, and 2. The kingdom of God.
 
Un biased said:
You shall have no other gods before me.

Read more: 10 Commandments - List of the 10 Commandments of the Bible What does it mean does it mean there could be more than one god just the deity that is jeuse father is the chief god ? ( just a question )reminds me of the Roman and Greek Mythology
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This is a problem for trinitarians, I'm a Unitarian Christian.

But expect (from the trinitarians) some complicated and illogical explination of how one is three and three are one.

The fact is if you are saying Jesus is YHWH and then the father is YHWH, you have to YHWH's.

But what the commandment is saying is you should not worship anyother "Gods," such as Baal, even though he doesn't exist, if people thought he existed and worshiped him, they would be violating that command.

But many times the OT uses the word god lightly, using it to refer to angels and even some mighty humans.
 
RGacky3 said:
1. It depends on your view of slavation.
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Through faith alone by grace alone.

RGacky3 said:
2. The difference is I'm not going to say that people who have honest differences in theology are "not christian."
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Then you are missing the point.

RGacky3 said:
3. 6th day creationism is NOT mainstream, neither is biblical literalism, I'm not dodging the question, I'm not going into my religion.
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You are dodging the question. Answer it.
 
gilbertc1908 said:
For one to "define" a Christian is only slightly less challenging than defining God or love.
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God is love (1 John 4:8).

gilbertc1908 said:
The best we can do is to share our journey to His light and hope with others and hope it helps them, first see that light and then understand that universal love.
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You sound like a hippie as that makes no sense, whatsoever.
 
head of joaquin said:
... your example is exactly wrong: a Christian is a new creation and thus will give away his money, since where your treasure is, there is your heart. There are no wealthy Christians. It is a contradiction in terms
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Wow!

Not even close...
 
Peter Grimm said:
What does it mean to accept Jesus Christ?

Is it possible to "accept" Him without knowing Him?
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No.

Peter Grimm said:
This is the meaning of the passage "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'"
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It is?

Peter Grimm said:
To know and accept Christ is to know and accept his teachings. His teachings are what survive Him.
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No. Christ still survives. He is God, ya know?

Peter Grimm said:
The teachings of Christ, also known as "the word," are the Holy Spirit. It is by the Holy Spirit that we are saved.
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But the Bible says that Christ is "The Word". The Holy Spirit is seperate from Christ.

Peter Grimm said:
So, if you want to be saved, read the sermon on the mount. Understand it, and take it to heart.
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What of John 3:16?
 
head of joaquin said:
This is the only thing relevant. The rest is just doctrine about thinking the right thoughts about God (as if God cares about that) and devolves into 1st century vocabulary that have no relevance to modern existence.

But your example is exactly wrong: a Christian is a new creation and thus will give away his money, since where your treasure is, there is your heart. There are no wealthy Christians. It is a contradiction in terms
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The Bible says that you simply can't have "two" masters as you'll love the one and hate the other. We all have to work for money but money does not have to be your "master". Remember, the "love of" money is the root of all evil...not money itself as evidenced not only by this very Scripture (1 Timothy 6:10) but also by the fact that God would bless people is a material way.
 
The Baron said:
Through faith alone by grace alone.
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I mean salvation from what, how does a man dying save one from anything and so on, point is different christians have different answers, and you can't just say that if they don't agree with you they arn't christians (well you can, but you'd be stupid).

Then you are missing the point.

You are dodging the question. Answer it.
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Whats the point then

I answered it, I said I'm not getting into it.
 
RGacky3 said:
I mean salvation from what, how does a man dying save one from anything and so on…
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One man dying can’t save another from Hell--which is what we all deserve. But Christ wasn’t simply a “man”. He was God, himself! And He died and suffered so I wouldn’t have to suffer. He saved me from Hell--which is what I deserve.

This is “the Gospel”…the “good news” of Christianity! This is the heart of the Christiainity. And if you deny this or, to put it another way, if you deny Christ then you are doomed to everlasting Hell.

Period!

RGacky3 said:
…point is different christians have different answers…
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Then they are not “Christians”. They are something else.

RGacky3 said:
…and you can't just say that if they don't agree with you they arn't christians (well you can, but you'd be stupid) .
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Whether folks agree with me or not is irrelevant. I don’t determine who’s a Christian and whose not.

God does.

And if you’re not a Christian you’re going to Hell.

RGacky3 said:
I answered it, I said I'm not getting into it.
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Obviously not as what you believe has been so discredited in so many circles that to reveal what you truly believe would discredit you by extension.
 
The Baron said:
One man dying can’t save another from Hell--which is what we all deserve. But Christ wasn’t simply a “man”. He was God, himself! And He died and suffered so I wouldn’t have to suffer. He saved me from Hell--which is what I deserve.

This is “the Gospel”…the “good news” of Christianity! This is the heart of the Christiainity. And if you deny this or, to put it another way, if you deny Christ then you are doomed to everlasting Hell.

Period!
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I agree the Gospel is the heart, but you're interperating it one way, whereas others can interperate it another. Adam brought us into sin, and it takes and equal to Adam to bring us out, Adam was not God, he was created by God, i.e. a Son of God, and made without Sin ....

Another thing to talk about is the theology of "hell," given that you're a fundementalist I take it we dissagree on what that word means.

Then they are not “Christians”. They are something else.
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So ONLY those Christians who take your absolutist fundementalist reading are "christians?"

Well, I dissagree, I say only those who actually follow Christ are "christians."

If you want we can look to scripture to see who is right? But the fact is you're rediculously arrogant view that "only those who agree with me are Christians," can be claimed by EVERYONE with equal weight.

Whether folks agree with me or not is irrelevant. I don’t determine who’s a Christian and whose not.

God does.

And if you’re not a Christian you’re going to Hell.
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¨

That isn't what the scriptures say ...

And yeah, God determines, so maybe stop going around saying "only those who agree with my fundementalist late 1800s understanding of the bible are Christians."

Obviously not as what you believe has been so discredited in so many circles that to reveal what you truly believe would discredit you by extension.
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If you want to know what I believe on specific subjects, then ask me, I'm not going to tie myself to a dogma however.

You obviously cannot debate with me on scripture, so now you're going the "argument from authority" route, which also won't work since the fundementalist reading is being abandoned by scholars and theologians pretty quickly.
 
Rainman05 said:
I'm a Christian and I find any attempt of the OP to define Christianity or a Christian outside of the normal definition is stupid.

A Christian is a person who believes in Jesus Christ and accepts him as his Savior.

Everything else is secondary.
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On the money. Everything after that is whether you are a good Christian or a bad one. Or somewhere in between.
 
obvious Child said:
On the money. Everything after that is whether you are a good Christian or a bad one. Or somewhere in between.
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You're both wrong. Anyone can believe in Jesus Christ just so long as "everyone" gets to define on thier own terms who / what Jesus was. And that is the problem.
 
The Baron said:
You're both wrong. Anyone can believe in Jesus Christ just so long as "everyone" gets to define on thier own terms who / what Jesus was. And that is the problem.
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And Accepts him as their savior.

And yeah, people define him differently, and obviously some peopel are wrong, but since you're not infallible, and your interpretation of scripture isn't infallable, when we define "christian" in a socioloical sense, i.e. in a practical sense, we define it as someone who believes in Jesus and accepts him as the means of salvation.

If you don't personally think that anyone who dissagrees with your theology is a christian ... good for you, no one gives a ****, because there are people with just as much scriptural authority and argument that will say YOU are not a christian based on your theology.

But we have to get on with life, so we stick with a definition that works sociologically.

Obviously who gets saved is up to God and is besides the question of who we as a society will define as a christian or not, we don't judge who gets saved.
 
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