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The word of god

Uh, if no discoveries contradict Biblical References, all discoveries support it.

This is a Venn diagram where they don't intersect.
As an unbiased (kinda) observer, a comment? Both of you are correct, though I would give this particular point to Tosca from an everyday-pragmatism point of view since OC's POV requires using a slightly contrived point of logic - and his point relies on the assumption that Tosca was using that same contrived point of logic when she made her initial statement, which I seriously doubt is the case.

As Tosca says, It's possible that many discoveries are made which are completely irrelevant to Biblical References - they neither supports nor deny it. For example, if I dig up a packet of crisps from ten years ago, this doesn't deny any Biblical References I'm aware of - but it doesn't exactly support them either, in real-world terms. Technically I believe you can argue (as OC is) that a ten-year-old crips packed supports the bible, in the same way that you can argue that a green apple is evidence that all ravens are black, but to all intents and purposes "support" vs "deny" is a false dichotomy.
 
I agree that the Bible is a very useful tool in knowing the teachings of Christ. But we still don't NEED it because we have the Spirit of God in us...

Christianity is based on the Scriptures! How would someone know of the teachings if not from the Bible? It is Christianity in BOOK Form! Yes we have the Holy Spirit, but that doesn't mean we don't have to do anything...are we puppets?

Christ referred to the Old Testament as He preached, and debated with the Pharisees/Saducces. He gave references from different books in the Old Testament.

I'd be very careful to dismiss the Bible. God would not have given it, and Christ would not have referred to it, if we don't need it.
 
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As an unbiased (kinda) observer, a comment? Both of you are correct, though I would give this particular point to Tosca from an everyday-pragmatism point of view since OC's POV requires using a slightly contrived point of logic - and his point relies on the assumption that Tosca was using that same contrived point of logic when she made her initial statement, which I seriously doubt is the case.

She posted an article stating that no discoveries contradict Biblical references. That is effectively say that all discoveries do support it. While I grant you that some may do neither, there are plenty of discoveries that flat up say that parts of the Bible (from certain view points) is total crap.

As Tosca says, It's possible that many discoveries are made which are completely irrelevant to Biblical References - they neither supports nor deny it. For example, if I dig up a packet of crisps from ten years ago, this doesn't deny any Biblical References I'm aware of - but it doesn't exactly support them either, in real-world terms. Technically I believe you can argue (as OC is) that a ten-year-old crips packed supports the bible, in the same way that you can argue that a green apple is evidence that all ravens are black, but to all intents and purposes "support" vs "deny" is a false dichotomy.

Well, we were discussing archeology in the Biblical sense. No one was discussing irrelevant findings.
 
Uh, if no discoveries contradict Biblical References, all discoveries support it.

This is a Venn diagram where they don't intersect.

An archeological discovery finding pottery in Peru doesn't contradict biblical references ... it doesn't support it either.

Or biblical archeology, where one finds that a type of clothing was very popular in 1 century palestine.

Or lets say that archeology shows that 1 century palestine had a heavy greek influence, that doesn't contradict the bible, but doesn't support it that much either, infact arguments could be made both ways.

I think both of you are too black and white, archeology can be taken many different ways.
 
Christianity is based on the Scriptures! How would someone know of the teachings if not from the Bible? It is Christianity in BOOK Form! Yes we have the Holy Spirit, but that doesn't mean we don't have to do anything...are we puppets?

Christ referred to the Old Testament as He preached, and debated with the Pharisees/Saducces. He gave references from different books in the Old Testament.

I'd be very careful to dismiss the Bible. God would not have given it, and Christ would not have referred to it, if we don't need it.

Christ referred to the Old Testament Scriptures because He was addressing the Jews... to whom the law was given. The gentiles were NEVER given the law and were/ are not expected to follow the written law. That is called legalism and is expressly condemned by the Apostles, most notably, Paul. If you try to follow even one law, you are responsible to follow the whole law..., all 413 of them! If we took a look at your life, I wonder how many you break on any given day.

Galatians 5:1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

7You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9“A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!


Did the first century Church have a Bible, of course not. They had the letters of Paul and the other Apostles... that's it. They didn't follow the law, because Paul told them not to. So how do you explain that? If you were to say that that was necessary back then but we have the book now, I would say that that is a step backward, not forward.

Read the book of Galatians, you will find it quite liberating. The bottom line... if you try to be justified by the law, you are cut off from Christ! Jesus Christ is the "head of the Body". Does your body obey anything other that your head... I think not. If it does, you have some real issues going on. Neither does the Body of Christ. We obey the head because He leads us... directly, without the written word and without some "man of God" telling us what to do.
 
Christ referred to the Old Testament Scriptures because He was addressing the Jews... to whom the law was given. The gentiles were NEVER given the law and were/ are not expected to follow the written law. That is called legalism and is expressly condemned by the Apostles, most notably, Paul. If you try to follow even one law, you are responsible to follow the whole law..., all 413 of them! If we took a look at your life, I wonder how many you break on any given day.

Galatians 5:1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

7You were running a good race. Who cut in on you to keep you from obeying the truth? 8That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9“A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion, whoever that may be, will have to pay the penalty. 11Brothers and sisters, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!


Did the first century Church have a Bible, of course not. They had the letters of Paul and the other Apostles... that's it. They didn't follow the law, because Paul told them not to. So how do you explain that? If you were to say that that was necessary back then but we have the book now, I would say that that is a step backward, not forward.

Read the book of Galatians, you will find it quite liberating. The bottom line... if you try to be justified by the law, you are cut off from Christ! Jesus Christ is the "head of the Body". Does your body obey anything other that your head... I think not. If it does, you have some real issues going on. Neither does the Body of Christ. We obey the head because He leads us... directly, without the written word and without some "man of God" telling us what to do.

Why are we talking about this?? We're talking about the Bible.

I think - correct me if I'm wrong - you don't agree with my statement in the OP:

Tosca1
This thread is created with the purpose of showing that the Bible is indeed The Word of God,

Thus you responded:

Tetelestai
The Bible are the scriptures/ "Words of God" written for teaching, correction, training in Godliness. But, as stated in John 1, Jesus Christ is the "Word of God".

Jesus is The Word. So yes, He is the Word of God. What is the OT mostly about? It talked about the coming of the Messiah - which is Jesus, The Word. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT. What did Jesus do while ministering - is it not to teach and explain?

The Bible is the Word of God. How would we come to understand Christianity if not for Jesus?

Are we "debating" over petty semantics here?
 
Why are we talking about this?? We're talking about the Bible.

I think - correct me if I'm wrong - you don't agree with my statement in the OP:



Thus you responded:



Jesus is The Word. So yes, He is the Word of God. What is the OT mostly about? It talked about the coming of the Messiah - which is Jesus, The Word. The NT is the fulfillment of the OT. What did Jesus do while ministering - is it not to teach and explain?

The Bible is the Word of God. How would we come to understand Christianity if not for Jesus?

Are we "debating" over petty semantics here?

I personally don't think so. People today deify the Bible. They make it into a kind of god. I guess I am trying to be very careful about that.
 
I personally don't think so. People today deify the Bible. They make it into a kind of god. I guess I am trying to be very careful about that.

Well I'm not deifying the Bible, nor am I making it into a god.

But I'm not going to imply on anything that might diminish its importance, nor will I go to the length of instructing others that "we don't need it," or "it's not important." Not even the OT.

We have to be very careful on that.....after all, if we believe that its core message is from God, there has to be a special reason/purpose why it's here.
 
We criticise and lament how our religion can be so divided into different denominations....and some of us Christians (which include me) have shown by our examples why. Some of the most heated arguments in a lot of Religion forums are between Christians....and usually, over disputable matters.


Roman 14:1
Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters.

Rom 14:3
The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

Rom 14:13
Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.




As it was noted in one of the commentaries relating to the last verse: Rom 14:13

Let us not therefore judge ... - Since we are to give account of ourselves at the same tribunal; since we must be there on the same "level," let us not suppose that we have a right here to sit in judgment on our fellow-Christians.

But judge this rather - If disposed to "judge," let us be employed in a better kind of judging; let us come "to a determination" not to injure the cause of Christ.
Romans 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister.
 
Well I'm not deifying the Bible, nor am I making it into a god.

But I'm not going to imply on anything that might diminish its importance, nor will I go to the length of instructing others that "we don't need it," or "it's not important." Not even the OT.

We have to be very careful on that.....after all, if we believe that its core message is from God, there has to be a special reason/purpose why it's here.

I never diminished the Bible. I said it was very useful to us. All I said was that we are led primarily of the Holy Spirit, and that the first century Christians didn't have it. And, by Paul's own words, the gentiles should have never even been exposed to the law of Moses. It has the modern Church all screwed up, trying to follow the 10 commandments and such. I live by the Spirit, God uses the Spirit to enlighten me through the scriptures, but He leads me directly... irrespective of the scriptures
 
I personally don't think so. People today deify the Bible. They make it into a kind of god. I guess I am trying to be very careful about that.

People are not deifying the bible, they are saying it is the "word of god," if you claim that saying ANYTHING is an authority on spiritual matters is "deifying" it, then we can know nothing about God accept through direct revelation ...

I never diminished the Bible. I said it was very useful to us. All I said was that we are led primarily of the Holy Spirit, and that the first century Christians didn't have it. And, by Paul's own words, the gentiles should have never even been exposed to the law of Moses. It has the modern Church all screwed up, trying to follow the 10 commandments and such. I live by the Spirit, God uses the Spirit to enlighten me through the scriptures, but He leads me directly... irrespective of the scriptures

I think you're right here, the 10 commandments do NOT apply directly to christians, the spirit of the law does however, i.e. we learn about the mind of God and can try and discern the type of person he is and his overall will.
 
Of course, there are also the other prophecies written in the Bible that foretell in stunning details, and most had occurred.

No other religious books had written such specific prophecies. If there is any prophecy written in other religious books, it would be vague....or self-fulfilling....or can be manipulated by man.

For detailed discussions on prophecies, please post in the new thread, Biblical Prophecies.
 



No wonder Jesus taught---- You don't know the one that sent me.) John 4:22-24= Jehovah
The one Jesus called--THE ONLY TRUE GOD(FATHER)- John 17:1-6,26


one has to believe Jesus over mens dogmas--but they refuse.
 
No wonder Jesus taught---- You don't know the one that sent me.) John 4:22-24= Jehovah
The one Jesus called--THE ONLY TRUE GOD(FATHER)- John 17:1-6,26


one has to believe Jesus over mens dogmas--but they refuse.

First one has to believe there was a Jesus, then accept the notion he was not just the Son of God, he was God simultaneously. THEN, you have to accept on faith that the words you read in the text came from the possible person and/or from men who claimed to have the words given to them by the possible person. After all of that, one must accept on faith that believing all of this stuff will in some way give one a better life after one dies.

Yep, no problem
 
No wonder Jesus taught---- You don't know the one that sent me.) John 4:22-24= Jehovah
The one Jesus called--THE ONLY TRUE GOD(FATHER)- John 17:1-6,26


one has to believe Jesus over mens dogmas--but they refuse.

:roll::roll:


 
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There is no Judeo Christian God.

Theres the Judeo-Unitarian-Islamic God.

Then there is the trinitarian God.

I happen to slightly disagree. I think the lumping of the 'judeo-unitarian-islamic' god into one is not correct.
 
I happen to slightly disagree. I think the lumping of the 'judeo-unitarian-islamic' god into one is not correct.

of coarse they are not the same ...

but the 3 are much more compatible as far as theology or what God is, than Judaism and trinitarian concepts of God are compatible.
 
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