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Pope Broke Rules, Washed Women's Feet

longknife

longknife

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Francis first pope ever to do so

By Matt Cantor, Newser Staff

Posted Mar 29, 2013 2:34 AM CDT |Updated Mar 29, 2013 6:45 AM CDT

(Newser) – The new pope has already done something none of his predecessors ever did: Yesterday, as he washed the feet of youths in a detention center, he included two young women—thereby violating liturgical rules, the AP reports. One of the women, the Telegraph notes, was a Muslim. "The pope's washing the feet of women is hugely significant because including women in this part of the Holy Thursday Mass has been frowned on—and even banned—in some dioceses," says a Jesuit priest
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Read more and see pix @ Pope Broke Rules, Washed Women's Feet - Francis first pope ever to do so

He makes new “rules” at every turn!
 
It's interesting. On one hand, the Bible warns against public displays of piety and wanting everyone to know just how "righteous" you are, because then you're doing it for your own glory and ego. On the other hand, the Pope is the ultimate spiritual leader (on earth) of millions and showing servitude and humility by example is something Jesus Himself did.

I'm liking this Pope. He's dedicated his whole life to God so I'm sure he doesn't need me to warn him of the dangers of popularity. It can be good in setting an example but it can also lead to pride. At the end of the day, it comes down to what's in the mans heart and that's something that cannot be hidden from God.
 
This was NOTHING BUT a public display of piety.

In mordern times washing feet isn't a symbol of anything, it's a first century tradition, if he really wanted to do some sort of service that was meaninful beyond nonsense symbolism he would have cleaned their cells, cooked them soup or something else that actually means something.
 
RGacky3 said:
This was NOTHING BUT a public display of piety.

In mordern times washing feet isn't a symbol of anything, it's a first century tradition, if he really wanted to do some sort of service that was meaninful beyond nonsense symbolism he would have cleaned their cells, cooked them soup or something else that actually means something.
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You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's all your pronouncement of what is really a symbol is. And it's an odd one too, given that on Maundy or Holy Thursday all over the globe and in several denominations, the service included symbolic foot-washing.

The footwashing is a commonplace and remains an enduring reenactment and symbolic gesture that answers the question (quoting from a hymn here), "Will you let me be your servant/Let me be as Christ to you."
 
nota bene said:
You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but that's all your pronouncement of what is really a symbol is. And it's an odd one too, given that on Maundy or Holy Thursday all over the globe and in several denominations, the service included symbolic foot-washing.

The footwashing is a commonplace and remains an enduring reenactment and symbolic gesture that answers the question (quoting from a hymn here), "Will you let me be your servant/Let me be as Christ to you."
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I get that, but to claim it's some sincere act of servitute or humility is rediculous, it's postering, in todays day and age it doesn't REALLY symbolize subservience, or service, it isn't REALLY something a servant would do, so really it doesn't have the same meaning it did in its first century context. It's public piety, vein symbolism, it isn't a sincere act of humility and service.
 
longknife said:
Francis first pope ever to do so

By Matt Cantor, Newser Staff

Posted Mar 29, 2013 2:34 AM CDT |Updated Mar 29, 2013 6:45 AM CDT



Read more and see pix @ Pope Broke Rules, Washed Women's Feet - Francis first pope ever to do so

He makes new “rules” at every turn!
Click to expand...

Well I think it's awesome - finally someone in the Catholic church shows that it's ok to advance and change . . . they've literally been stuck in hte dark ages.

Maybe he'll be the one to shame the pedophiles.
 
Walking the walk and talking the talk of Christ...seems to me that's the Pope's function.

[FWIW...if I were Pope...nothing but hot lady feet.]
 
WCH said:
Walking the walk and talking the talk of Christ...seems to me that's the Pope's function.

[FWIW...if I were Pope...nothing but hot lady feet.]
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Yeah, it sort of is.
 
RGacky3 said:
I get that, but to claim it's some sincere act of servitute or humility is rediculous, it's postering, in todays day and age it doesn't REALLY symbolize subservience, or service, it isn't REALLY something a servant would do, so really it doesn't have the same meaning it did in its first century context. It's public piety, vein symbolism, it isn't a sincere act of humility and service.
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Again, your opinion that this is "ridiculous" or "posturing" and asserting that it doesn't "REALLY" symbolize what it's supposed to is your opinion. And what you're doing is sitting in judgment when you don't know the heart of this man, Francis.

That's okay so long as you recognize that this is what you're doing. I don't know how you can presume to know the heart of another, but you do seem to think you have this ability. Sad that you can't even entertain the notion that the gesture could have been sincere.
 
RGacky3 said:
I get that, but to claim it's some sincere act of servitute or humility is rediculous, it's postering, in todays day and age it doesn't REALLY symbolize subservience, or service, it isn't REALLY something a servant would do, so really it doesn't have the same meaning it did in its first century context. It's public piety, vein symbolism, it isn't a sincere act of humility and service.
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It's a tradition in the Catholic Church... granted a very old fashioned one, but it still means something to them.

As for whether it was sincere or humble, that is a matter of the intent of the heart... which I will not presume to judge, since only the Shadow knows what lurks in the hearts of men... :mrgreen:


It is early days yet, but so far a number of decisions made by the new Pope seem to consistently indicate a desire to express his Papacy through humility and service, rather than pomp and circumstance... which inclines me to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case as well. In particular, his decision to keep simple and modest quarters rather than reside in the more luxurious Papal suite, an act of personal sacrifice regarding the comfort and opulence of his own living quarters, was quite impressive. He didn't have to do that; no one would have batted an eye if he'd taken the more luxurious suite rather than the modest rooms he chose.

That, in particular, seems like an indicator of sincerity on his part, as his apartments are a relatively personal matter.
 
So far, I think this was mostly a symbol -- he places the content of the faith above tradition or church law. That's good.

But I hope he won't stop with symbols, and display the same boldness when it comes to solving more urgent problems.
 
longknife said:
He makes new “rules” at every turn!
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What a frivolous thing for people to get worked up about. Jesus broke numerous rules in His time on earth to prove a point about following the spirit, and not the letter. Maybe having a Pope who does the same will do some good.
 
Is the Pope really relevant anymore? Specifically, this Pope. I don't think Catholic traditionalists are going to be a very big fan, and the non-religious folks are going to say everything he's doing is posturing. So, what sort of impact is he going to have, and on who? He could be a truly good person, who sets a good example for people. But what if society these days isn't interested in having this sort of model? What sort of impact does the position of Pope have anymore?
 
X Factor said:
It's interesting. On one hand, the Bible warns against public displays of piety and wanting everyone to know just how "righteous" you are, because then you're doing it for your own glory and ego. On the other hand, the Pope is the ultimate spiritual leader (on earth) of millions and showing servitude and humility by example is something Jesus Himself did.

I'm liking this Pope. He's dedicated his whole life to God so I'm sure he doesn't need me to warn him of the dangers of popularity. It can be good in setting an example but it can also lead to pride. At the end of the day, it comes down to what's in the mans heart and that's something that cannot be hidden from God.
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I'm not Catholic and I really like this guy. As a matter of course, yes you're not supposed to make your acts of charity known, but he is supposed to set a public example.
 
RGacky3 said:
In mordern times washing feet isn't a symbol of anything, it's a first century tradition,
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It means a ton in modern day cultures, especially ME cultures. It's not a 1st century thing. It doesn't mean much in America but that's because we have no culture at all beyond being dicks to each-other.

In many modern cultures, washing someone's feet is symbolic of blessing and cleaning the way they live because such cultures regard the bottom of the foot as the dirtiest part of the body (which is why showing someone your heal or throwing you shoe at a president is a particular kind of disrespect akin to mooning someone or putting your underwear on their head).

 
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I'd prefer that he overturn the rule forbidding priests and nuns from handing out condoms in Africa to halt the spread of HIV
 
WWGWD said:
Is the Pope really relevant anymore? Specifically, this Pope. I don't think Catholic traditionalists are going to be a very big fan, and the non-religious folks are going to say everything he's doing is posturing. So, what sort of impact is he going to have, and on who? He could be a truly good person, who sets a good example for people. But what if society these days isn't interested in having this sort of model? What sort of impact does the position of Pope have anymore?
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Your handle means What Would George Walker Do.
 
nota bene said:
Again, your opinion that this is "ridiculous" or "posturing" and asserting that it doesn't "REALLY" symbolize what it's supposed to is your opinion. And what you're doing is sitting in judgment when you don't know the heart of this man, Francis.

That's okay so long as you recognize that this is what you're doing. I don't know how you can presume to know the heart of another, but you do seem to think you have this ability. Sad that you can't even entertain the notion that the gesture could have been sincere.
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I don't know his heart, and neither do you, all I know is the nature of this action, and this action in a modern context is meaningless, and obvious postering, it's ritual without substance, no one there is thinking "Wow this is something a servant will do, the pope is humbling himself and serving me."
 
Goshin said:
It's a tradition in the Catholic Church... granted a very old fashioned one, but it still means something to them.

As for whether it was sincere or humble, that is a matter of the intent of the heart... which I will not presume to judge, since only the Shadow knows what lurks in the hearts of men... :mrgreen:


It is early days yet, but so far a number of decisions made by the new Pope seem to consistently indicate a desire to express his Papacy through humility and service, rather than pomp and circumstance... which inclines me to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case as well. In particular, his decision to keep simple and modest quarters rather than reside in the more luxurious Papal suite, an act of personal sacrifice regarding the comfort and opulence of his own living quarters, was quite impressive. He didn't have to do that; no one would have batted an eye if he'd taken the more luxurious suite rather than the modest rooms he chose.

That, in particular, seems like an indicator of sincerity on his part, as his apartments are a relatively personal matter.
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I get that, and I agree with the apartment thing, and I actually like this pope and his concern for the oppressed and poor.

But this action specifically, although sincere perhaps, isn't REAL humility, isn't REAL servitute, it's ritual, it's postering, it's like being knighted, it doesn't mean anything it modern context, and no one there is actually thinking "this is something a servant does," so you can't compare it at all to what Jesus did.
 
Jerry said:
It means a ton in modern day cultures, especially ME cultures. It's not a 1st century thing. It doesn't mean much in America but that's because we have no culture at all beyond being dicks to each-other.

In many modern cultures, washing someone's feet is symbolic of blessing and cleaning the way they live because such cultures regard the bottom of the foot as the dirtiest part of the body (which is why showing someone your heal or throwing you shoe at a president is a particular kind of disrespect akin to mooning someone or putting your underwear on their head).

Click to expand...


This was done in Italy ... And I don't know if they still do the feet washing in the ME nowerdays, but at least the people who received it from the pope saw it as ritual and not as ACTUAL servitude.

Something that would actually be similar would be cleaning their cells, washing their clothes, serving them food, or other things that would in modern times indicate servitude and humility.

I would argue that him sitting with the vatican staff during a morning prep meeting was actual humility, not this though.

That being said the whole concept of the pope is anti-christian and pompus.
 
WWGWD said:
It's not, but that's pretty funny, lol
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I don't know what else your handle could mean. Most people don't get inside joks, that's why most people of every political perspiration use whole words for their handle.
 
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