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A World without Religion?

Wake

Wake

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There was a comment by Hitchens once where he said he'd never try to stamp out religion, and he said when Richard Dawkins heard that (they were talking) Hitchens never forgot the face he made. (This instance was in a movie documenting the debate between Christopher Hitchens and Pastor Douglas Wilson—the DVD was titled Collision.)

So, that got me thinking. What would the world be like if there weren't any religions at all? What do you think?
 
Wake said:
So, that got me thinking. What would the world be like if there weren't any religions at all? What do you think?
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It would be remarkably similar.
 
It would become like Lord of the Flies but with better weaponry.
 
It wouldn't be much, if at all, different from the current world. Religion is just one way that people express what's already in them.
 
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Science Damn you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
If there was no religion in the world it wouldnt be long before someone invented it (many people inventing many different ones actually)
 
I imagine my stock in the company that makes Communion wafers would plummet.
 
It would be reasonably different if it ended tomorrow.

More individualistic for both good and ill. More isolated crime and unstable society intra-culture but less conflict inter-culture. I don't think the cult of personality has enough legs to unify people in the cynical modern age to offer a plausible alternative to religion.
 
Wake said:
There was a comment by Hitchens once where he said he'd never try to stamp out religion, and he said when Richard Dawkins heard that (they were talking) Hitchens never forgot the face he made. (This instance was in a movie documenting the debate between Christopher Hitchens and Pastor Douglas Wilson—the DVD was titled Collision.)

So, that got me thinking. What would the world be like if there weren't any religions at all? What do you think?
Click to expand...

It would have its ups and downs, I think, but what outweighs the other is entirely personal opinion.

Obviously, religious wars would end, and that's definitely a plus, but what would people focus on to replace religion? I think that people would be a lot more nationalist; caring about their nation rather than religion and I think just as many wars, if not more, would start because of that... other than that, I don't think it would be too much different than it is now, except I get to have my brat sister home on Sunday mornings to ruin my weekend. :p
 
It would be a dog eat dog world to the very core. The strong would feast on the weak. "Undesirable" people would be placed in concentration camps or killed en masse. Selfishness would be the prime motive for everything.

Societies would crumble due to corruption. Government would be non-functional, and we would return to tribal living. The family unit as we know it would not exist. Men would sleep with whomever they wished, and women would raise children alone. Rape, plunder, and petty crime would be rampant.

The stock market would close, because you would be unable to trust anyone with your money.

In the end, we would return to the way we were in Pre-Christian Europe, or Pre-Christian Africa, or Pre-Christian North America. Tribal, hand-to-mouth living.
 
Peter Grimm said:
It would be a dog eat dog world to the very core. The strong would feast on the weak. "Undesirable" people would be placed in concentration camps or killed en masse. Selfishness would be the prime motive for everything.
Click to expand...

So...no change then
 
Peter Grimm said:
It would be a dog eat dog world to the very core. The strong would feast on the weak. "Undesirable" people would be placed in concentration camps or killed en masse. Selfishness would be the prime motive for everything.

Societies would crumble due to corruption. Government would be non-functional, and we would return to tribal living. The family unit as we know it would not exist. Men would sleep with whomever they wished, and women would raise children alone. Rape, plunder, and petty crime would be rampant.

The stock market would close, because you would be unable to trust anyone with your money.

In the end, we would return to the way we were in Pre-Christian Europe, or Pre-Christian Africa, or Pre-Christian North America. Tribal, hand-to-mouth living.
Click to expand...
300g667434.gif
 
Peter Grimm said:
It would be a dog eat dog world to the very core. The strong would feast on the weak. "Undesirable" people would be placed in concentration camps or killed en masse. Selfishness would be the prime motive for everything.

Societies would crumble due to corruption. Government would be non-functional, and we would return to tribal living. The family unit as we know it would not exist. Men would sleep with whomever they wished, and women would raise children alone. Rape, plunder, and petty crime would be rampant.

The stock market would close, because you would be unable to trust anyone with your money.

In the end, we would return to the way we were in Pre-Christian Europe, or Pre-Christian Africa, or Pre-Christian North America. Tribal, hand-to-mouth living.
Click to expand...

Hmm sounds more like you are describing medieval christian europe than heathen ancient greek civilization to me.

Just saying.....
 
I don't think the world would suddenly improve overnight, but it would get better. The staunch opposition to science would no longer be fashionable. Peoples that are currently embroiled in religious disputes would have to talk about the physical, tangible issues that are dividing them, like control of land and resources. A lot of oppression of women and gays would have no strength behind them. I think people would be forced to become smarter, since the mental shortcuts that a religious mindset encourages would no longer by valid.

Those who think that people would suddenly become less moral without religion, I must ask this: Do you really think that every atheist among you is only stopped from raping and murdering everyone in sight because of the force of law imposed on them by the godly? Every one of us, deep down, really wants to kill and rape with impunity? Because if you genuinely think that, then you are employing some of those mental shortcuts.
 
The idea of helping the less fortunate and putting the interests of others ahead of yourself (even enemies) is a Judeo-Christian development (though it has some parallels in Confusianism and other religions -- though loving your enemies is a purely Christian idea).

A world without that value would be similar to the Roman world -- lots of exploitation of the powerless and the other with no countervaling values to limit it. Of course we have exploitation of the poor today. But most civilized people know it's wrong, condemn it and even try to mitigate it. That was not possible in the Greco-Roman world. It wasn't wrong to exploit the weak in the Roman world. It was right.

And needless to say loving your enemies, giving being better than receiving, disowning riches was not only impossible to conceive but would have been considered mad (as indeed the Greco-Roman world did characterize early Christianity)

That doesn't mean religion hasn't been used to cause incredible harm to people. It has. But Hitchen's is wrong in his simplistic views about that.
 
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I rather imagine he's learning this right about now.
 
Quag said:
Hmm sounds more like you are describing medieval christian europe than heathen ancient greek civilization to me.

Just saying.....
Click to expand...

And Ancient Greece was some sort of paradise? It was certainly a dog-eat-dog world, where the strong ruled the day.

Ancient Greeks held slaves. The weak were forced in to slavery.

Girls got married in their early teens. Men got married in their 30's. Marriages were arranged by the parents. (Girls are generally more helpless)

Married women hardly left the home. They were only to associate with other married women, never with men.

The average Greek lived in a one or two room house.

Only aristocratic males could vote or go to school. Well, that is unless you were Hetaera, a group of women trained as prostitutes, who were educated outside the home on things like entertaining and conversation. They were meant to sit and have conversations with men during long food festivals and therefore needed to have a higher education.

Wealthy men ran the government, and only men.

Around 620 BC Draco, the lawgiver, set down the first known written law of Ancient Greece. These laws were so harsh that his name gave rise to our English word "Daconian" meaning an unreasonably harsh law.

However, not all laws were "draconian."

Rape was punishable by a fine of 100 just drachmas.

Murder was punishable by exile.
 
Wake said:
There was a comment by Hitchens once where he said he'd never try to stamp out religion, and he said when Richard Dawkins heard that (they were talking) Hitchens never forgot the face he made. (This instance was in a movie documenting the debate between Christopher Hitchens and Pastor Douglas Wilson—the DVD was titled Collision.)

So, that got me thinking. What would the world be like if there weren't any religions at all? What do you think?
Click to expand...

To me religion and faith are two different things. Religion is the acceptance of a man based ideology which is suppose to be the interpretation of some divine or spiritual dogma.

Faith is the belief in a power greater than yourself and the acceptance of a Word or code of conduct based on that belief. It is intensely personal and not for public display. Some religios people are capable of being persons of faith and that is great.

So if there was no religion I would just keep on going on.
 
Paschendale said:
I don't think the world would suddenly improve overnight, but it would get better. The staunch opposition to science would no longer be fashionable. Peoples that are currently embroiled in religious disputes would have to talk about the physical, tangible issues that are dividing them, like control of land and resources. A lot of oppression of women and gays would have no strength behind them. I think people would be forced to become smarter, since the mental shortcuts that a religious mindset encourages would no longer by valid.

Those who think that people would suddenly become less moral without religion, I must ask this: Do you really think that every atheist among you is only stopped from raping and murdering everyone in sight because of the force of law imposed on them by the godly? Every one of us, deep down, really wants to kill and rape with impunity? Because if you genuinely think that, then you are employing some of those mental shortcuts.
Click to expand...

Aethist does not mean immoral. good point I know aetheists who are more moral than some Christians.
 
head of joaquin said:
The idea of helping the less fortunate and putting the interests of others ahead of yourself (even enemies) is a Judeo-Christian development (though it has some parallels in Confusianism and other religions -- though loving your enemies is a purely Christian idea).
Click to expand...

Every part of this statement is incorrect. The Christian ideals of kindness, generosity, peace, and charity are echoed in nearly every other culture in all of human history. These are human ideals, not western, not Christian, not even modern. These are the ideals that made us survive while other early forms of humans died out. These concepts predate language, even.
 
Paschendale said:
Every part of this statement is incorrect. The Christian ideals of kindness, generosity, peace, and charity are echoed in nearly every other culture in all of human history. These are human ideals, not western, not Christian, not even modern. These are the ideals that made us survive while other early forms of humans died out. These concepts predate language, even.
Click to expand...

What about the "agape love" part?
 
Peter Grimm said:
And Ancient Greece was some sort of paradise? It was certainly a dog-eat-dog world, where the strong ruled the day.

Ancient Greeks held slaves. The weak were forced in to slavery.

Girls got married in their early teens. Men got married in their 30's. Marriages were arranged by the parents. (Girls are generally more helpless)

Married women hardly left the home. They were only to associate with other married women, never with men.

The average Greek lived in a one or two room house.

Only aristocratic males could vote or go to school. Well, that is unless you were Hetaera, a group of women trained as prostitutes, who were educated outside the home on things like entertaining and conversation. They were meant to sit and have conversations with men during long food festivals and therefore needed to have a higher education.

Wealthy men ran the government, and only men.

Around 620 BC Draco, the lawgiver, set down the first known written law of Ancient Greece. These laws were so harsh that his name gave rise to our English word "Daconian" meaning an unreasonably harsh law.

However, not all laws were "draconian."

Rape was punishable by a fine of 100 just drachmas.

Murder was punishable by exile.
Click to expand...

Aside from the bolded how is that different than medeaval europe?
Still smile is joke we laugh much merryment etc..
 
Man might realize that all good things they believed came from a stay puft marshamallow man in the sky actually emanated from within.
 
All physical evidence points to the fact that the universe far predates humans. If a sound exists and there is no creature capable of hearing it does the sound serve any purpose? What's the point of noise if nothing can perceive it? Yet the percussive waves through the air still exist and have an impact on the environment? There are many energy forms that humans can't perceive directly but serve a purpose in the cosmic scheme of things. We're only designed to perceive our immediate environment on a limited scale with limited intellect, what in heavens name makes you think you've got the whole universe figured out? Figure yourself out and you've achieved a monumental task.
 
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