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What does this mean?

ecofarm said:
I think you're taking it too simply. There are a few things we should consider.

1. The mere production of images is not prohibited. "Graven" means that it is worshiped.
2. It is the worship of false gods that is of real concern here, not art.
3. The spiritual message is that putting faith in objects is a waste of time.

Ultimately, it is a reminder of the separation between the physical and spiritual and to not confuse the two.
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Graven means carved or sculptured. If you want to produce the original aramaic or greek in the event of a misinterpretation, have at it.
 
Rainman05 said:
Not really. I don't think what I said can be translated in the terms you are trying to put it in.
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Creation is objects, the creator is spiritual (idea-based).
 
spanky said:
Graven means carved or sculptured. If you want to produce the original aramaic or greek in the event of a misinterpretation, have at it.
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Modern definitions suffice.

(Christian Religious Writings / Bible) Chiefly Bible a carved image used as an idol
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graven image - definition of graven image by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

: an object of worship carved usually from wood or stone : idol
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http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/graven image



Need I provide the next 10 google hits (all the same)?
 
ecofarm said:
Modern definitions suffice.


graven image - definition of graven image by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


Graven image - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



Need I provide the next 10 google hits (all the same)?
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graven image
noun
an idol.

Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English

The tradition of the meaning of "graven image" dates to the middle ages. As I said, if one wants the true meaning they should go back to the original Greek or Aramaic.
 
spanky said:
graven image
noun
an idol.

Origin:
1350–1400; Middle English

The tradition of the meaning of "graven image" dates to the middle ages. As I said, if one wants the true meaning they should go back to the original Greek or Aramaic.
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I think if one wants the true meaning, one should place it in the context of the Bible. That's what scholars have done, that's how we get all those definitions saying the same thing.
 
Why the need for all the interpretations? You'd think an all knowing omniscient god could make his law clear so there would be no misunderstandings.
 
spanky said:
Why the need for all the interpretations? You'd think an all knowing omniscient god could make his law clear so there would be no misunderstandings.
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BINGO!

So maybe it isn't about a onmiscient God telling us what to do, but us working it out, with a kind heart (rather than the bad blood of the religious right and their constant attacks on gays, women, and other minorities)
 
head of joaquin said:
BINGO!

So maybe it isn't about a onmiscient God telling us what to do, but us working it out, with a kind heart (rather than the bad blood of the religious right and their constant attacks on gays, women, and other minorities)
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Maybe there is no law at all, just smart apes trying to figure out the world around them. Law gives us order and stability and a greater ability for survival. Maybe the concept of law is just a manifestation of survival of the fittest.
 
head of joaquin said:
Jesus is saying that if you want to stay under the Law it will always be there for you, condemning you. That's hardly something to applaud.

Paul makes that clear, as does James. If you can't keep the entire Law (and you can't) you are condemned.

I'm not saying that's the Jewish interpretation. It's not. (and of course like Christianity there is no single interpretation of the Law in Judaism, since there are various divisions in Judaism today and at the time of Jesus) But it is the Christian interpretation.
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Who really cares what Paul and James said. They were simply men. If one is a Christian one believes Jesus was divine. Big difference.
 
spanky said:
Why the need for all the interpretations? You'd think an all knowing omniscient god could make his law clear so there would be no misunderstandings.
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Alas, His children are prone to corruption and self-interest, at the expense of others.

They also have free will.
 
rjay said:
" 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

It seems to me that this means there should not be any statues, paintings or anything that attempts to create an image or likeness of
Jesus, Mary or any other thing that we presume to be in heaven, or even heaven itself. That would include nativity scenes.


Perhaps there is something similar in the Qu'ron which many Muslims take much more seriously than many Christians do.


On the other hand - I could be misinterpreting.
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Honestly - it means whatever religious people want it to mean.

Because several religions have similar stipulations - some adhere to it strictly and some don't give a poo
 
spanky said:
Maybe there is no law at all, just smart apes trying to figure out the world around them. Law gives us order and stability and a greater ability for survival. Maybe the concept of law is just a manifestation of survival of the fittest.
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That's certainly one narrative way to look at it. Then there are others. But the point is, those who insist on one way are usually dangerous.
 
hfd said:
Who really cares what Paul and James said..
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Me and about a billion Christians do. But I agree that the gospel narratives are much more interesting than the commentary on Jesus by later writers. That's why I reject Nicene and its trinitarianism.

Ooop!
 
head of joaquin said:
Me and about a billion Christians do. But I agree that the gospel narratives are much more interesting than the commentary on Jesus by later writers. That's why I reject Nicene and its trinitarianism.

Ooop!
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Seriously? You're a non trinitarian?

Ouch.
 
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