Do you believe in God? [W:10]

zgoldsmith23 said:

I align Christianity and Judaism more than I'd align Islam and either of the other two. My point still remains the same as was addressed when talking to CC.

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actually, from a pure ideological POV, Christianity & Islam are more connected, as they both believe that Jesus was the Messiah and was resurected from the dead.

zgoldsmith23 said:

I align Christianity and Judaism more than I'd align Islam and either of the other two. My point still remains the same as was addressed when talking to CC.

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See, I would align Christianity, Judaism, and Islam together pretty closely. They all evolved from the same place and have some similarly basic beliefs. Buddhism, Hinduism, and other "Eastern" religions I don't think are quite as similar and I wouldn't align them with the other three.

CaptainCourtesy said:

See, I would align Christianity, Judaism, and Islam together pretty closely. They all evolved from the same place and have some similarly basic beliefs. Buddhism, Hinduism, and other "Eastern" religions I don't think are quite as similar and I wouldn't align them with the other three.

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certainly Buddhism & Hinduism are VERY different. However, Taoism, Shintoism, Daoism, do share many common themes about life. Read the Lao Tsu...its awesome.

Thunder said:

certainly Buddhism & Hinduism are VERY different. However, Taoism, Shintoism, Daoism, do share many common themes about life. Read the Lao Tsu...its awesome.

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They share similar themes, but the essence of their belief in a higher power, to me the foundation of any religion, is quite different.

zgoldsmith23 said:

I align Christianity and Judaism more than I'd align Islam and either of the other two. My point still remains the same as was addressed when talking to CC.

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Your point is still incorrect. You claim that the Muslim god is separate than the Judeo-Christian God. Anyone who has read the Qur'an knows different.

Lokiate said:

Your point is still incorrect. You claim that the Muslim god is separate than the Judeo-Christian God. Anyone who has read the Qur'an knows different.

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yes, even a short read of the Koran shows that it is the same God Jews & Christians worship.

different interpretations..but of the same God.

Lokiate said:

Your point is still incorrect. You claim that the Muslim god is separate than the Judeo-Christian God. Anyone who has read the Qur'an knows different.

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I would separate the three for the poll, but, I can see your point and point taken.

zgoldsmith23 said:

I would separate the three for the poll, but, I can see your point and point taken.

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i didn't want to flood the poll with too many options.

zgoldsmith23 said:

I would separate the three for the poll, but, I can see your point and point taken.

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What I always find confusing... and I think I started a thread on it a LONG time ago, is the difference between Christian denominations. I've read a bit about it and I still find them difficult to separate. Methodists, Lutheranism, Anglican, Presbyterian, Catholic, Episcopal, and lots of others. The differences seem to be very subtle to me.

CaptainCourtesy said:

What I always find confusing... and I think I started a thread on it a LONG time ago, is the difference between Christian denominations. I've read a bit about it and I still find them difficult to separate. Methodists, Lutheranism, Anglican, Presbyterian, Catholic, Episcopal, and lots of others. The differences seem to be very subtle to me.

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The Methodist side of my family always told me Methodism was "Baptist-Lite" lol

CaptainCourtesy said:

What I always find confusing... and I think I started a thread on it a LONG time ago, is the difference between Christian denominations. I've read a bit about it and I still find them difficult to separate. Methodists, Lutheranism, Anglican, Presbyterian, Catholic, Episcopal, and lots of others. The differences seem to be very subtle to me.

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Most of it is caused by regional, and historical rifts. The Episcopal church, for example, is just the Church of England (Anglican), but in America. Baptists and Southern Baptists were separated due to growing tensions between North and South in the 1850's, and so on. Same reason why we have so many different variations of the Cross. Most are political symbols, or national identifiers (for military personnel) that can be traced back to the Crusades.

If there is any kind of supernatural existence, it has never once impacted my life in any way. As such, I will continue making decisions without taking supernatural forces into account. Until such time as a supernatural element makes some kind of difference in my life, I see no reason to give them any credence or concern myself with them.

evanescence said:

Quantum physics have shown this to be untrue. The universe at a sub atomic level is chaotic. Some particles can even disappear and reappear, or exist at two places at once. But when the universe is observed on this level, it seems more concrete and ordered. Ultimately, the universe is trying to balance itself, and both chaos and order (good and evil) are necessary for existence.

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The Being I'm talking about invented and controls quantum physics. There is a level of understanding beyond the good vs evil theory but it takes time to realize those concepts of light-dark, truth-lies, life-death are all not really opposing but an illusion with only one side being real. The only thing necessary for existence is love.

grip said:

The Being I'm talking about invented and controls quantum physics. There is a level of understanding beyond the good vs evil theory but it takes time to realize those concepts of light-dark, truth-lies, life-death are all not really opposing but an illusion with only one side being real.

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Duality is essential for existence, and the interaction between various opposites are what makes life and evolution possible. Both are important.

grip said:

The only thing necessary for existence is love.

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How do you figure? Love is a biochemical process resulting from specified stimuli.

yes
i
do
.

TheDemSocialist said:

yes
i
do
.

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No you don't :lol:

evanescence said:

Duality is essential for existence, and the interaction between various opposites are what makes life and evolution possible. Both are important.



How do you figure? Love is a biochemical process resulting from specified stimuli.

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I was lost in this theory of dualism for many years before I realized it only exists on the physical plane. Such as ignorance-knowledge and life-death are real for us but only as levels of maturity because an ignorant person is not aware of their ignorance or a dead person their non existence. Just as male is not opposite of female but rather they're a complimenting pair.

The instinct to survive is also a biochemical process resulting from specified stimuli. The feeling of caring (love) comes from the desire to exist, they are the same.

zgoldsmith23 said:

No you don't :lol:

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now Zachary as much as i question i still do.

TheDemSocialist said:

now Zachary as much as i question i still do.

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Lol way til we get back to school.

grip said:

I was lost in this theory of dualism for many years before I realized it only exists on the physical plane. Such as ignorance-knowledge and life-death are real for us but only as levels of maturity because an ignorant person is not aware of their ignorance or a dead person their non existence. Just as male is not opposite of female but rather they're a complimenting pair.

The instinct to survive is also a biochemical process resulting from specified stimuli. The feeling of caring (love) comes from the desire to exist, they are the same.

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Dualism is the nature of existence. And often times, opposites do compliment each other.

evanescence said:

Dualism is the nature of existence. And often times, opposites do compliment each other.

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In the beginning they theorize that there was a pure energy that created a hot plasma soup of matter and antimatter. When those two collide the result is pure energy and it takes pure energy to create them. All things are from one pure energy but there is a separation, transformation and recombining of energy in different forms and levels to create the observable universe. Things of mass are only denser forms of energy. So I wouldn't call existence about dualism as much as it's about energy given structure and meaning through symbolism. Matter and antimatter could have cancelled each other out in the beginning but for some reason there was a slight variation that favored matter.

There probably is no devil and is what we call God when we don't get what we want or get disciplined by fate and nature. In the Lord's Prayer it doesn't say "don't let satan lead us into temptation" it says "Lord lead us not into temptation". The bible basically has two messages, one is of hope, faith, truth, love, light, compassion, salvation, freedom, forgiveness and life. The other is of death, pain, lies, darkness, ignorance, judgment, slavery and doubt. That's more about choices, enlightenment, acceptance, maturing and belief than any perceived dualism. Take the good message, let love enter your heart, which doesn't mean be naive of those (all of us) that are lost or imperfect, but simply understanding. And know we have to learn by our mistakes- (evil, darkness, lies, errors, etc) and successes- (good, knowledge, wisdom, productivity, honesty, etc). In the end they all serve the same purpose, which is for us to grow into who we're going to be.

Sherman123 said:

I'm Jewish and was raised in reform/conservative house hold and considered myself fairly religious for a great deal of time. But as the years wore on, doubt crept in and I'm probably at the point where I consider the existence of god to be very unlikely. Certainly one that cares or intervenes in our affairs to be doubly so. While the prospect of a hereafter seems very weak. I also do not believe in a metaphysical soul. The only pang of doubt I suppose I still reflect on is the origin of energy, mathematical constants, etc. But I think there is increasingly a well developed body of scientific theory and evidence regarding these issues. However while I acknowledge that I find it very difficult to comprehend them, probably due to my own bias as a human towards causal thinking.

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You need to be careful not to over anthropomorphize G-d, nor to define your personal comprehension of G-d according to the limitations of your present existential condition. What you take to be a fleeting, transient soul may very well be a continuing work in progress, with a history stretching back across eons of subjective experience, both human and otherwise. At the very least, your physical self is the product of thousands, indeed millions, of years of subjective, evolving experience that you could not possibly comprehend with fully conscious apprehension, given the intrinsic physical limitations of your brain within the parameters of all earthly states of being.

No. My spiritual beliefs do not include any form of supreme deity whatsoever.

CaptainCourtesy said:

Yup. Jewish God. That is of course my belief and I don't apply it to anyone else.

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Hey, that's G_d to you. :2razz:

Sig said:

You need to be careful not to over anthropomorphize G-d, nor to define your personal comprehension of G-d according to the limitations of your present existential condition. What you take to be a fleeting, transient soul may very well be a continuing work in progress, with a history stretching back across eons of subjective experience, both human and otherwise. At the very least, your physical self is the product of thousands, indeed millions, of years of subjective, evolving experience that you could not possibly comprehend with fully conscious apprehension, given the intrinsic physical limitations of your brain within the parameters of all earthly states of being.

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Not sure what you mean if I'm being perfectly honest. My problem isn't one of scale either in terms of time or size, or a lack of understanding of neurobiology or evolutionary psychology (if that is what you are referring to). Saying that I'm incapable of understanding it because I'm anthropomorphically biased or handicapped can equally be turned back by saying that humans are biased towards causal thinking which makes understanding the 'precursor' period to the big bang difficult. Anyways, I appreciate the comment but my issue is the dearth of evidence for an involved creator, and the evidence that weighs heavily towards the opposite contention. Especially as our understanding of the mind and consequently the thing we have called the soul increases.