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A Proper Sermon on Homosexuality




I think the Catechism of the Catholic Church strikes the perfect balance on homosexuality. It does not shy away from the fact that homosexual sex is a mortal sin, yet it also clearly states that we should never discriminate against or hate homosexuals either:


2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Being a born-again, evangelical or fundamentalist Christian often corresponds with a negative view of homosexuality. Among those groups, 82 percent say homosexual behavior is a sin while 14 percent say it is not a sin.
LifeWay Research 2012 Survey on Homosexual Behavior
Do you have stats to back your claim?
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I have history to back up my claim. Thomas Jefferson was liberal on this issue and he called for homosexuals to be castrated. If you are too lazy to know this much of your own religion's history, then I have no sympathy for you. The fact is these views have changed and will continue to change. The fact that you can't see beyond this point in history is not my problem. Just because a majority agrees with you at a certain point in time does not mean you are right.

If you would look above, I never say anything about gay marriage. I am speaking of homosexuality in general. Gay marriage is a matter of freedom. Many Christians, IMO, have seen the attempts of the Federal gov't to infringe upon them and don't want it done to their fellow man. That's just my opinion though.
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I never said anything about gay marriage either.

I have one argument on this that cannot be refuted. If God intended for all of us to be able to choose if we want to be with the same sex, he would have created 2 men and 2 women in the beginning. He did not. He created a man and a woman and said this:
Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
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I already posted a link addressing that view. In fact, my link goes over all the Biblical verses on homosexuality. Your argument is easily refuted and is poor logic at best.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/relig...-discussion-homosexuality.html#post1060536137

Nowhere do you see a statement from me that says anyone should dictate that homosexuals should not be allowed to have a relationship, be married, etc. If they want to, have at it. You are correct in saying that majority does not make right or wrong. It is merely an indicator. But it is that, an indicator.
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Like how when a majority supported slavery and a majority supported denying women the right to vote and a majority supported an eye for an eye, etc. It's an indicator of what?
 
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Your Star said:
And I'm saying we should work to change that, there's nothing destructive, to the body or soul about homosexuality.
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We agree to disagree then.
 
MarineTpartier said:
We agree to disagree then.
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Will you at least admit that it is your opinion. Can you at least own up to the fact that your views are based on your subjective interpretation of Biblical scripture?
 
Dezaad said:
There aren't any stats of the overall Christian population in your article, so I don't know why you think you are quoting stats that are on topic. Quoting stats of segments of the Christian population tells us nothing about what the majority of all Christians believe. I am the only one who has given stats from an overall Christian population and the majority of them are for legalizing gay marriage (though you rightly point out that that doesn't necessarily mean they think it is non-sinful)... but I'd wager its damn close.
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I'm just giving you the stats I can find man. Evangelical can be best described as Protestant. Protestant religions are:
Anglican
Baptist
Congregational (Church of Christ, etc)
Lutheranism
Methodism
Presbyterianism
Reformed
51.3% of Christians are Protestant
Statistics on Religion in America Report -- Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

Also, 39% of Catholics believe homosexuality is a sin.
Survey: Americans Divided on Homosexuality as Sin

Without doing some 10 pound brain math on this, it would look like (at a glance) that the majority of Christians (combining Protestants and Catholics) would say homsexuality is a sin. However, I would agree that it would be misleading to say that as the Catholic percentage would be skewed by the much higher percentage of Protestants that believe it is a sin. Just doing quick math, it looks like it would fall in the 55%-60% range that would say its a sin.
 
CriticalThought said:
Will you at least admit that it is your opinion. Can you at least own up to the fact that your views are based on your subjective interpretation of Biblical scripture?
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I will cede that to you, yes. I also cede that other religions underneath the Christian umbrella interpret the Bible differently. My entire point of this was to show that Christians are not narrow minded, hateful people. I understand others do not interpret the Bible the same as I do.
Just to give background on this. I am a Christian who has adopted Baptist beliefs. I do not claim to be a Baptist. Reason being, I don't like when people try to categorize Christians. The Baptist belief system is a very simple and logical view. It doesn't have all of the ceremony of Catholics. It doesn't add to the Bible. Baptist ministers simply read the Bible and take it for face value. They don't attempt to make verses say what they want it to. That is where my rigidity comes from on this subject. However, with that teaching comes the message of loving others and not judging them. That is the reason I cede that point to you.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I will cede that to you, yes. I also cede that other religions underneath the Christian umbrella interpret the Bible differently. My entire point of this was to show that Christians are not narrow minded, hateful people. I understand others do not interpret the Bible the same as I do.
Just to give background on this. I am a Christian who has adopted Baptist beliefs. I do not claim to be a Baptist. Reason being, I don't like when people try to categorize Christians. The Baptist belief system is a very simple and logical view. It doesn't have all of the ceremony of Catholics. It doesn't add to the Bible. Baptist ministers simply read the Bible and take it for face value. They don't attempt to make verses say what they want it to. That is where my rigidity comes from on this subject. However, with that teaching comes the message of loving others and not judging them. That is the reason I cede that point to you.
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The problem with 'taking verses at face value' is that the translations were done inaccurately on certain subjects. When you 'take them at face value' you are taking what some other person MADE the verses say, so in those cases where they were inaccurate, you haven't REALLY taken the verse 'at face value'. When compassionate people come along and question how those things were translated, they may be correcting a bad alteration in meaning, and may be the actual ones who are taking the verse at its original face value.

This is why public policy based on religion is a very poor thing to do, and wreaks havoc on certain people's lives. And whose religion are we to base it on? The 45 to 55 percent who say it is sin, or the 45 to 55 percent who say it is not? Why not base public policy so that each person, each group, can live the way they want to live? Don't believe in gay marriage? Don't have one, and don't have one in your church. Believe in gay marriage? Have one if it floats your boat and either way, allow them in your church.

This way, no one has to live by another person's notion of what 'face value' means, and everyone gets to live by their own notion of what it means.
 
Dezaad said:
The problem with 'taking verses at face value' is that the translations were done inaccurately on certain subjects. When you 'take them at face value' you are taking what some other person MADE the verses say, so in those cases where they were inaccurate, you haven't REALLY taken the verse 'at face value'. When compassionate people come along and question how those things were translated, they may be correcting a bad alteration in meaning, and may be the actual ones who are taking the verse at its original face value.

This is why public policy based on religion is a very poor thing to do, and wreaks havoc on certain people's lives. And whose religion are we to base it on? The 45 to 55 percent who say it is sin, or the 45 to 55 percent who say it is not? Why not base public policy so that each person, each group, can live the way they want to live? Don't believe in gay marriage? Don't have one, and don't have one in your church. Believe in gay marriage? Have one if it floats your boat and either way, allow them in your church.

This way, no one has to live by another person's notion of what 'face value' means, and everyone gets to live by their own notion of what it means.
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1) I'm not advocating for policy to be based on my religion
2) It's my religion and I can believe it if I so choose.
3) You can not believe it if you so choose.
4) I identify with the religious group that I do because they interpret the Bible in the same manner that I do, for the most part. Again, a choice of mine and not one I am trying to force on others.
 
MarineTpartier said:
1) I'm not advocating for policy to be based on my religion
2) It's my religion and I can believe it if I so choose.
3) You can not believe it if you so choose.
4) I identify with the religious group that I do because they interpret the Bible in the same manner that I do, for the most part. Again, a choice of mine and not one I am trying to force on others.
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Are you in favor of legalized SSM?
 
MarineTpartier said:
1) I'm not advocating for policy to be based on my religion
2) It's my religion and I can believe it if I so choose.
3) You can not believe it if you so choose.
4) I identify with the religious group that I do because they interpret the Bible in the same manner that I do, for the most part. Again, a choice of mine and not one I am trying to force on others.
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Do you ever say to anyone anything to the effect of "God made marriage between a man and a woman, and the law should reflect that"?
You can believe whatever you choose whether it is about religion or not. Your belief, however, doesn't make it true, and it doesn't make it that you are 'taking the Bible at face value'.
I am aware that I can not believe it if I choose, but thank you. Why is the freedom to believe whatever we want relevant?
Did I say something about your identification with a specific religious group? I thought I was calling into question your belief (which is without any evidence, I might add) that the Bible has a certain, supposedly correct, way of being interpreted.

I am sorry you seem to feel threatened by these counterpoints to cherished beliefs which you hold. But, you are the one who brought up 'how Christians ought to sermonize on gay issues' for discussion. When someone else calls into question assumptions you have made during the course of that discussion, well, they are not trying to force you to believe anything. You feel that way because you know you should doubt your own beliefs.
 
Dezaad said:
Do you ever say to anyone anything to the effect of "God made marriage between a man and a woman, and the law should reflect that"?
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Nope, sure don't. If you read this thread, you would see it again and again.
Dezaad said:
You can believe whatever you choose whether it is about religion or not. Your belief, however, doesn't make it true, and it doesn't make it that you are 'taking the Bible at face value'.
I am aware that I can not believe it if I choose, but thank you. Why is the freedom to believe whatever we want relevant?
Did I say something about your identification with a specific religious group? I thought I was calling into question your belief (which is without any evidence, I might add) that the Bible has a certain, supposedly correct, way of being interpreted.

I am sorry you seem to feel threatened by these counterpoints to cherished beliefs which you hold. But, you are the one who brought up 'how Christians ought to sermonize on gay issues' for discussion. When someone else calls into question assumptions you have made during the course of that discussion, well, they are not trying to force you to believe anything.
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I don't feel threatened in the least. That is not the reason behind my tone towards you. My tone towards you is due to the fact that you didn't read any of this thread. If you had, you would see that I have answered every question you are posting. I am merely irritated at you for being lazy, nothing more. The purpose of this thread is to point out that not all Christians (especially Baptists) go to church on Sunday and hear hate preached to them by their pastor. I believe SSM should be legal, as it is a freedom issue. I believe what I believe because the Bible says its wrong. Plain as that. If you don't like that, that's your right to do so.
Dezaad said:
You feel that way because you know you should doubt your own beliefs.
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No once will you see in this thread (once you read it) me telling anyone how they should believe. I am a live and let live kinda guy. However, this statement is more ignorant than you could ever attempt at portraying my beliefs to be. How could you possibly know what I should doubt? Its laughable really.
 
MarineTpartier said:
Nope, sure don't. If you read this thread, you would see it again and again.

I don't feel threatened in the least. That is not the reason behind my tone towards you. My tone towards you is due to the fact that you didn't read any of this thread. If you had, you would see that I have answered every question you are posting. I am merely irritated at you for being lazy, nothing more. The purpose of this thread is to point out that not all Christians (especially Baptists) go to church on Sunday and hear hate preached to them by their pastor. I believe SSM should be legal, as it is a freedom issue. I believe what I believe because the Bible says its wrong. Plain as that. If you don't like that, that's your right to do so.

No once will you see in this thread (once you read it) me telling anyone how they should believe. I am a live and let live kinda guy. However, this statement is more ignorant than you could ever attempt at portraying my beliefs to be. How could you possibly know what I should doubt? Its laughable really.
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You advocated the freedom to marry exactly once in this thread at the time I made my post. I missed it and that is understandable. Therefore that can't be the reason you have taken your tone :) Especially since you didn't take the tone with another who asked. As to my other question, I asked it rhetorically, and did so because it pointed out that freedom to believe is a given, and was also irrelevant.

I really don't care whether people challenge other people's beliefs. Never once in my life have I ever used the phrase or anything similar "I can believe what I want to" as a reaction to a challenge to the things I accept. Furthermore, I have never once defended myself with "Don't tell me what to believe." Either what people say is well reasoned and supported by evidence, or it is not. I adjust what I accept on the basis of those arguments, and if what I accept changes, I don't feel like I was told what to believe. The phrase "I can believe what I want" is obvious to any adult, and the need to state it is an indicator that the mind of the speaker has halted the thinking process in its tracks.

Perhaps you didn't want another point of view about whether stating being gay is a sin is nice and correct or not. In which case you should have stated up front "I don't want to hear any other views about how to interpret the bible, I just want to preach at you."

Simply put, stating that being gay is a sin is not nice. It is inherently aggressive, hostile and insulting, no matter what color of lipstick you put on that pig. It is not like saying alcohol is a sin, or fornicating, or adultery, or greed. It is saying that a person should be ashamed for who they are on a very deep level. Since the person can do absolutely NOTHING to not be gay, they are entirely trapped in that deep shame, unlike true immorality, which a person can change. Yes, you can believe what you want, but when you state it out loud, I will point out the meaning by implication of what it is that you say every time I feel like it. You can change what you believe. Gay people cannot change who they are.
 
Does the sermon have to use the word "hate" for what he's saying to be hateful? Is what you're doing now, "eternal damnation" etc less hateful because it's a religious belief? You said the thought is the same as the action, and you know perfectly well we're not going to "repent." Then again you seem to think that's an appropriate punishment for stealing a doughnut...I think the problem is religious folk tend to throw out phrases like that so often and flippantly that they don't even realize how insulting it sounds to the rest of us.

To say that homosexuality is a "chip on the shoulder" and an addiction, I guess you have no idea what it's like. I mean, I don't expect you to, except you're kind of outspoken about it. You're claiming compassion while totally failing to empathize. Do I go around pretending to know everything about Baptists? Hell no. Someone who is gay hardly has to attend church to have more than a chip on their shoulder due to how the local congregation treats them outside church. Maybe not all at once but you know. Are they gonna give you such grief cause you forgot to say your prayers last night?

This sermon doesn't advocate physical abuse like the media headlines, but it's still factually incorrect. You know why this kind of sermonizing will no longer exist in the future? Because it isn't helpful! If your pastor helps you make headway on gambling addiction or some other "sin", great, but this "love the sinner, hate the sin" when it comes to sexuality, it's nothing new. What that translates to is usually not quite that however. At best, by attending his sermons I could hope to be treated like I have a contagious disease. No one would sit near me, or shake hands and so on. That's my experience with religious people anyway.

Yeah, I concede that not all churches are like those we've seen in NC. I think I read there's like 3000 churches that are LGBT friendly. You're a product of your time, as we all are, as CT keeps pointing out. You're fine with SSM, glad to hear it, but you wouldn't be 50 years ago, when there was probably very close to 0 churches LGBT friendly. You wouldn't call homosexuality a sin if born 50 years from now either, most likely.
 
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Dezaad said:
You advocated the freedom to marry exactly once in this thread at the time I made my post. I missed it and that is understandable. Therefore that can't be the reason you have taken your tone :) Especially since you didn't take the tone with another who asked. As to my other question, I asked it rhetorically, and did so because it pointed out that freedom to believe is a given, and was also irrelevant.

I really don't care whether people challenge other people's beliefs. Never once in my life have I ever used the phrase or anything similar "I can believe what I want to" as a reaction to a challenge to the things I accept. Furthermore, I have never once defended myself with "Don't tell me what to believe." Either what people say is well reasoned and supported by evidence, or it is not. I adjust what I accept on the basis of those arguments, and if what I accept changes, I don't feel like I was told what to believe. The phrase "I can believe what I want" is obvious to any adult, and the need to state it is an indicator that the mind of the speaker has halted the thinking process in its tracks.

Perhaps you didn't want another point of view about whether stating being gay is a sin is nice and correct or not. In which case you should have stated up front "I don't want to hear any other views about how to interpret the bible, I just want to preach at you."

Simply put, stating that being gay is a sin is not nice. It is inherently aggressive, hostile and insulting, no matter what color of lipstick you put on that pig. It is not like saying alcohol is a sin, or fornicating, or adultery, or greed. It is saying that a person should be ashamed for who they are on a very deep level. Since the person can do absolutely NOTHING to not be gay, they are entirely trapped in that deep shame, unlike true immorality, which a person can change. Yes, you can believe what you want, but when you state it out loud, I will point out the meaning by implication of what it is that you say every time I feel like it. You can change what you believe. Gay people cannot change who they are.
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And I disagree that it is a choice. Wholeheartedly. I do not believe that my God would condemn someone to sin by making them homosexual. That, more than anything else, is what convinces me that it is a choice. I do believe that some people can have a tendency towards it. That is that individuals struggle in their life. Others have struggles as well. Personally, I have a struggle with addiction and I am clinically diagnosed as ADD. I have overcome both through faith, prayer, and study of the Bible. I have never used medication in my life to overcome either of those things.
Again, you didnt read my post either. I not only pointed out my thoughts on SSM, but other thoughts that you questioned me about. If you had read the thread, you would have realized your entire post had been addressed already. That's why you didn't readdress any of it in this post and simply attempted to lecture me that I am not nice and aggressive.
I posted my thoughts on this forum because that's what it's for, is it not? It is your choice to open the thread. You act as though I'm standing on the street corner yelling at you on your front porch. If you don't like my point of view, debate me about it or don't read it. But don't act as though I'm wrong about stating my point of view on a forum whose sole purpose is to do just that. In fact, you are doing the same thing as I am.
 
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wolv67 said:
Does the sermon have to use the word "hate" for what he's saying to be hateful? Is what you're doing now, "eternal damnation" etc less hateful because it's a religious belief? You said the thought is the same as the action, and you know perfectly well we're not going to "repent." Then again you seem to think that's an appropriate punishment for stealing a doughnut...I think the problem is religious folk tend to throw out phrases like that so often and flippantly that they don't even realize how insulting it sounds to the rest of us.
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You act as thought homosexuality is the only sin that is taught to have the consequence of eternal damnation. It is not. And the donut thing wasn't my idea lol. It was the user I was responding to. Stealing is stealing right?
wolv67 said:
To say that homosexuality is a "chip on the shoulder" and an addiction, I guess you have no idea what it's like. I mean, I don't expect you to, except you're kind of outspoken about it. You're claiming compassion while totally failing to empathize. Do I go around pretending to know everything about Baptists? Hell no. Someone who is gay hardly has to attend church to have more than a chip on their shoulder due to how the local congregation treats them outside church. Maybe not all at once but you know. Are they gonna give you such grief cause you forgot to say your prayers last night?
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When did I claim not to empathize? Why wouldn't I empathize with a homosexual and their struggle the same as any other person struggling with an issue? If, according to you, homosexuality isn't wrong, why do I need to empathize? I haven't claimed to know everything about homosexuals. Addiction was the only way I could describe it because it is also a feeling a person could have that they feel like they can't resist but really don't need to live. Also, addiction is my personal struggle so I associated more closely with it. Simple as that.
wolv67 said:
This sermon doesn't advocate physical abuse like the media headlines, but it's still factually incorrect. You know why this kind of sermonizing will no longer exist in the future? Because it isn't helpful! If your pastor helps you make headway on gambling addiction or some other "sin", great, but this "love the sinner, hate the sin" when it comes to sexuality, it's nothing new. What that translates to is usually not quite that however. At best, by attending his sermons I could hope to be treated like I have a contagious disease. No one would sit near me, or shake hands and so on. That's my experience with religious people anyway.
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Show the facts that make it incorrect please.
If you came to my church, I would shake your hand and sit with you in a minute. No question about it.
wolv67 said:
Yeah, I concede that not all churches are like those we've seen in NC. I think I read there's like 3000 churches that are LGBT friendly. You're a product of your time, as we all are, as CT keeps pointing out. You're fine with SSM, glad to hear it, but you wouldn't be 50 years ago, when there was probably very close to 0 churches LGBT friendly. You wouldn't call homosexuality a sin if born 50 years from now either, most likely.
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You may be right about the times. Idk because this is the time I live in. I am glad that the times have changed and that many Christians realize that SSM is a freedom issue and not an issue where religion should dictate policy. However, I have to disagree with you about homosexuality as a sin. The Bible isn't going to be different in 50 years. It will still say that it is a sin. No two ways about that.
 
Dezaad said:
You advocated the..............
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I would also like to point out that you are the only user on this thread I have taken this tone with. Not one person has agreed with me in 7 pages of posting on this thread. Yet I have treated all of them respectfully and without the tone you speak of. Think about that.
 
MarineTpartier said:
I would also like to point out that you are the only user on this thread I have taken this tone with. Not one person has agreed with me in 7 pages of posting on this thread. Yet I have treated all of them respectfully and without the tone you speak of. Think about that.
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Sir, you come across as a reasonable, respectful, and polite man, and in that spirit I would not want to offend you. But I see no reason to raise this topic. If your beliefs tell you that homosexuality is a sin of commission, those are your beliefs and I respect your right to hold any belief your intellect can sustain.

But I would point out, with respect, than none of the authority you depend upon has ever been proven to exist. Neither God can be substantiated, nor can an ancient book of myth and fable be logically accepted as the work of God (always assuming He exists). The further myths of Heaven and Hell are equally unproven and unlikely. No kind, good, and loving God would create fallible beings, only to subject them to eternal agony, in the likely event they prove less than perfect.

And, with the best intentions, you have posted on an international forum, the view that homosexuals are sinners because of a sexual orientation which the civilised and scientific world considers involuntary. You are telling people who may enjoy that orientation, that they are sinners who will face eternal damnation. This is neither polite nor considerate, and if it is typically Christian behaviour, then Christianity has much to learn. I say all this as an heterosexual, nominally Christian, adult male, who has no particular agenda to sustain.
 
MarineTpartier said:
And I disagree that it is a choice. Wholeheartedly. I do not believe that my God would condemn someone to sin by making them homosexual. That, more than anything else, is what convinces me that it is a choice. I do believe that some people can have a tendency towards it. That is that individuals struggle in their life. Others have struggles as well. Personally, I have a struggle with addiction and I am clinically diagnosed as ADD. I have overcome both through faith, prayer, and study of the Bible. I have never used medication in my life to overcome either of those things.
Again, you didnt read my post either. I not only pointed out my thoughts on SSM, but other thoughts that you questioned me about. If you had read the thread, you would have realized your entire post had been addressed already. That's why you didn't readdress any of it in this post and simply attempted to lecture me that I am not nice and aggressive.
I posted my thoughts on this forum because that's what it's for, is it not? It is your choice to open the thread. You act as though I'm standing on the street corner yelling at you on your front porch. If you don't like my point of view, debate me about it or don't read it. But don't act as though I'm wrong about stating my point of view on a forum whose sole purpose is to do just that. In fact, you are doing the same thing as I am.
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What other questions? About the percentages? Ugh, I was trying to understand your thinking, because I could see that you had no real evidence.

Yes, you believe in your version of scripture, despite the common sense, testimony and (inconclusive) scientific evidence that in fact it is not a choice. Gay people struggle to avoid suicide in situations where the only people they have to turn to are those who call them sinful. Thank God most nowadays have people around to tell them otherwise. But this does not lessen the hatefulness that your claim embodies. I know it IS NOT a choice, which is why I say that if your god is real, then he is evil.
 
MarineTpartier said:
And I disagree that it is a choice. Wholeheartedly. I do not believe that my God would condemn someone to sin by making them homosexual. That, more than anything else, is what convinces me that it is a choice.
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I can guarantee you that homosexuality is not a choice. Ask any gay person here if they made a choice to be gay. I can guarantee you the answer is no. I wouldnt be surprised if many have tried to force themselves to be straight. I know I tried changing my sexuality. Now you can make an argument that homosexuality is caused by environment rather then biology but you cannot make an argument that homosexuality is a choice. At least for the vast majority of homosexuals anyway.
 
MarineTpartier said:
This is a church (Concord Baptist) in Chattanooga, TN. The pastor, David King, does an excellent job of explaining what Christians believe, why they believe it, how they should apply it in their lives, and especially how we should treat homosexuals and homosexuality. The word hate is never used. The best part is at the 8:22 mark. This is what most churches are hearing every Sunday. It's not what the news outlets would have the pubic hear. They would rather everyone hear the extremist, out to lunch views like "punch your son if he acts like a girl" or "put all queers in an electric fence". Some people may still find it offensive simply because they are gay and he is saying it's wrong. However, everytime I go into church I hear at least one thing that I am doing in my life that is wrong. I don't walk out with a chip on my shoulder. I walk out with the intention of stopping that action or improving upon it. Anyone reading this has the same choice I do. Believe it and adhere or ignore it and carry on with their life. All I ask is that you see the proper way for a pastor to teach his congregation about how to handle homosexuality and how to treat homosexuals. Also, some women may like what he says about men and women's roles in a marriage as well. This, also, is accurate and proper according to the Bible.

Sermon Archive : Resources : Concord Baptist
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I think this Church does a better job:

What We Believe

BTW it is one of the largest LBGT Churches in the country.
 
MarineTpartier said:
And I disagree that it is a choice. Wholeheartedly. I do not believe that my God would condemn someone to sin by making them homosexual. That, more than anything else, is what convinces me that it is a choice. I do believe that some people can have a tendency towards it. That is that individuals struggle in their life. Others have struggles as well. Personally, I have a struggle with addiction and I am clinically diagnosed as ADD. I have overcome both through faith, prayer, and study of the Bible. I have never used medication in my life to overcome either of those things.
Again, you didnt read my post either. I not only pointed out my thoughts on SSM, but other thoughts that you questioned me about. If you had read the thread, you would have realized your entire post had been addressed already. That's why you didn't readdress any of it in this post and simply attempted to lecture me that I am not nice and aggressive.
I posted my thoughts on this forum because that's what it's for, is it not? It is your choice to open the thread. You act as though I'm standing on the street corner yelling at you on your front porch. If you don't like my point of view, debate me about it or don't read it. But don't act as though I'm wrong about stating my point of view on a forum whose sole purpose is to do just that. In fact, you are doing the same thing as I am.
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So if God did not consider homosexuality a sin, then you would have no problem with it?

Because if that is so, I think you should probably look into it more. Men have claimed homosexuality is a sin. Men who have supposed great religious positions. But God has never said homosexuality is a sin.

Now if you still believe this, you must understand you are putting your faith in men, and not in God. Which God has said is a sin.
 
Omgitsme said:
I can guarantee you that homosexuality is not a choice. Ask any gay person here if they made a choice to be gay. I can guarantee you the answer is no. I wouldnt be surprised if many have tried to force themselves to be straight. I know I tried changing my sexuality. Now you can make an argument that homosexuality is caused by environment rather then biology but you cannot make an argument that homosexuality is a choice. At least for the vast majority of homosexuals anyway.
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You are correct. I also think one could ask any 'straight' person if they made a choice to be that way, and I guarantee the answer would be similarly negative.

As an example; I grew up in an all boy's boarding school. When I hit puberty, I made no decisions as to which gender attracted me (and it wasn't my companions at school). My body told me in no uncertain terms what turned me on, so it is reasonable to assume that any gay boy reacted similarly to other boys. Like why would anyone choose an orientation which is generally shunned by most societies (if not overtly, then certainly in more subtle ways) if he has any choice in the matter?

The argument that homosexuality must be a choice, is made by those mean spirited enough, and ignorant enough, to want to punish someone for something over which he has no control. The same sort of people who indulge in racist thought and behaviour.
 
MarineTpartier said:
And I disagree that it is a choice. Wholeheartedly. I do not believe that my God would condemn someone to sin by making them homosexual. That, more than anything else, is what convinces me that it is a choice.
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It's kinda funny, this exact reason is one of the major reasons why I believe it isn't a sin. I didn't choose this, I was born this way, I wouldn't have chosen this if I had a choice. Too much worry, and potential heartache worrying about how my family will react.
 
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