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What's wrong with birth control? [W:452]

Aunt Spiker

Aunt Spiker

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I am lost on this - I know what the Catholic Church says 'about it' - but that doesn't explain *what* is actually wrong with using birth control to not get pregnant until you're ready when married.

Explain - in ways the Church hasn't tried to.

Do Catholics all agree with the Church's view are are there those who are Catholics who still use birth control eventhough they're told not to?

How does the Catholic Church view these parisioners who go against their 'authority' on the matter?
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

only similarity between pope and me is that we both believe in god..
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Isn't it in the Catholic Churches "best interest" to have as many babies being born into Catholic families as possible?

More Catholic babies = more Catholics.

Seems relatively simple from a strictly business/power/money point of view.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Aunt Spiker said:
I am lost on this - I know what the Catholic Church says 'about it' - but that doesn't explain *what* is actually wrong with using birth control to not get pregnant until you're ready when married.

Explain - in ways the Church hasn't tried to.

Do Catholics all agree with the Church's view are are there those who are Catholics who still use birth control eventhough they're told not to?

How does the Catholic Church view these parisioners who go against their 'authority' on the matter?
Click to expand...

First, birth control isn't perfect.

Second, even if it was perfect, people's memories to use it aren't perfect either.

Third, publicly distributing birth control encourages promiscuity between those who use birth control and those who don't.

For example, among kids in the same school (where attendance is mandatory), it would be wrong for some to have sex while using birth control because that alters the school's environment for social competition. In turn, it influences other kids to have sex so they can be optimally socially competitive.

If you want, think of it like how a trade union works. A trade union is established so nobody has to take health risks when they're on the job site.

If we tolerate encouraged promiscuity, health risks will be encouraged too.
 
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Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Aunt Spiker said:
I am lost on this - I know what the Catholic Church says 'about it' - but that doesn't explain *what* is actually wrong with using birth control to not get pregnant until you're ready when married.

Explain - in ways the Church hasn't tried to.

Do Catholics all agree with the Church's view are are there those who are Catholics who still use birth control eventhough they're told not to?

How does the Catholic Church view these parisioners who go against their 'authority' on the matter?
Click to expand...

funny how experts in societal evolution dictate what rights characters of society have as their collective soul mentality. But the liberty within each sole result of ancestry is none of their business to regulate by laws that does not concern their sole's progression in genetic migration passing through now's compounding ancestry.

Unless the sole allows it to occur. But again that is personal choices.

Beware. your argument has holes that will sink your fleet of self righteous political ideologies of defining spirituality to character's soul rights of entitlements for being a member of humanity's greater good intentions.
 
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Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Daktoria said:
First, birth control isn't perfect.

Second, even if it was perfect, people's memories to use it aren't perfect either.
Click to expand...

So? Seatbelts aren't 100% effective either. Think it's a good idea to drive around without one?

Third, publicly distributing birth control encourages promiscuity between those who use birth control and those who don't.

For example, among kids in the same school (where attendance is mandatory), it would be wrong for some to have sex while using birth control because that alters the school's environment for social competition. In turn, it influences other kids to have sex so they can be optimally socially competitive.

If you want, think of it like how a trade union works. A trade union is established so nobody has to take health risks when they're on the job site.

If we tolerate encouraged promiscuity, health risks will be encouraged too.
Click to expand...

Not even one word of this is true. There is no "encouraged promiscuity", and certainly not one caused by birth control. People have sex. People have a lot of sex. This has been a fact of life for as long as there have been people. I'm also not sure what kind of "social competition" you're referring to, either. Nobody got called a slut when you were in high school? We are all socially competitive. Your notion that birth control has any negative effects on that is unsubstantiated and absurd. And what "health risks" are you talking about? Pregnancy? HIV? Those are prevented by use of condoms, not the opposite.

In short, there's nothing wrong with birth control. And I know this was spurred by some bishops, who claim never to have had sex in their lives, objecting to their employees getting birth control. Too bad for them. It's not their choice whether or not their employees or their parishioners use contraceptives. That choice belongs to the employees and parishioners alone. They need to get with the 21st century, and stop thinking that sperm is magic.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Well - if it was about promiscuity: their stance against control doesn't alter when you marry - it stays the same: you're not suppose to avoid it by 'unnatural means' - which means doing rhythm which is just as reliable as a good ole condom :shrug: . . .but when you marry it's ok to have sex all you want - it's not ok, bc or no bc, when you're not married. . . so that's not it.

Since it's been a church mandate for centuries - the old world belief that 'more babies = more catholics' seems to fit.

But with knowledge about the human body changing - don't they see it as somewhat acceptable to change too? They even said there's a possibility that there's other life in the universe - but still 'no bc' ?
 
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Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Aunt Spiker said:
I am lost on this - I know what the Catholic Church says 'about it' - but that doesn't explain *what* is actually wrong with using birth control to not get pregnant until you're ready when married.

Explain - in ways the Church hasn't tried to.

Do Catholics all agree with the Church's view are are there those who are Catholics who still use birth control eventhough they're told not to?

How does the Catholic Church view these parisioners who go against their 'authority' on the matter?
Click to expand...

n 1968, Pope Paul VI issued his landmark encyclical letter Humanae Vitae (Latin, "Human Life"), which reemphasized the Church’s constant teaching that it is always intrinsically wrong to use contraception to prevent new human beings from coming into existence.
Click to expand...

This pretty much sums it up. The Catholic Church believes using birth control is a mortal sin. If one dies in mortal sin, one is damned to hell. Just one more way the Catholic Church is becoming irrelevant.

Birth Control | Catholic Answers
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

There is nothing wrong with birth control. There is something very wrong about the government mandating that a church pay for something that is against its belief system, however.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Daktoria said:
If we tolerate encouraged promiscuity, health risks will be encouraged too.
Click to expand...

This is like saying "health insurance can cause people to take risks with their health"

If a person is wanting to do a backflip off their roof onto a trampoline and land in their pool, they are going to do it regardless of whether or not thy are insured.

Kids aren't getting together and saying "damn, someone just gave me this condom, I had no interest in sex before this, but it'd be a shame to waste it..."
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Dittohead not! said:
There is nothing wrong with birth control. There is something very wrong about the government mandating that a church pay for something that is against its belief system, however.
Click to expand...

Completely wrong thread.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

MaggieD said:
This pretty much sums it up. The Catholic Church believes using birth control is a mortal sin. If one dies in mortal sin, one is damned to hell. Just one more way the Catholic Church is becoming irrelevant.

Birth Control | Catholic Answers
Click to expand...

I got it: they see pregnancy as divine-mandate . . . that makes sense: they are the catholic church afterall, what else are they going to do?

Absurd to me: but that does answer the question.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Paschendale said:
So? Seatbelts aren't 100% effective either. Think it's a good idea to drive around without one?
Click to expand...

Seat belt failure only puts the potential wearer at risk.

Not even one word of this is true. There is no "encouraged promiscuity", and certainly not one caused by birth control. People have sex. People have a lot of sex. This has been a fact of life for as long as there have been people. I'm also not sure what kind of "social competition" you're referring to, either. Nobody got called a slut when you were in high school? We are all socially competitive.
Click to expand...

This is why it's best to keep socialists out of control of the economy - they don't care about how reduced risk encourages greater risk taking.

Socialists also selectively read into externalities. School is a mandatory environment. You don't have the freedom of association to withdraw and be immune from social competition.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

roughdraft274 said:
This is like saying "health insurance can cause people to take risks with their health"
Click to expand...

Yes, opposition to universal health care resides in "moral hazard".
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Daktoria said:
First, birth control isn't perfect.

Second, even if it was perfect, people's memories to use it aren't perfect either.

Third, publicly distributing birth control encourages promiscuity between those who use birth control and those who don't.

For example, among kids in the same school (where attendance is mandatory), it would be wrong for some to have sex while using birth control because that alters the school's environment for social competition. In turn, it influences other kids to have sex so they can be optimally socially competitive.

If you want, think of it like how a trade union works. A trade union is established so nobody has to take health risks when they're on the job site.

If we tolerate encouraged promiscuity, health risks will be encouraged too.
Click to expand...


None of this has anything to do with married Catholic couples and birth control.

As far as the church is concerned, they want married couples procreating like rabbits.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Aunt Spiker said:
Well - if it was about promiscuity: their stance against control doesn't alter when you marry - it stays the same: you're not suppose to avoid it by 'unnatural means' - which means doing rhythm which is just as reliable as a good ole condom :shrug: . . .but when you marry it's ok to have sex all you want - it's not ok, bc or no bc, when you're not married. . . so that's not it.

Since it's been a church mandate for centuries - the old world belief that 'more babies = more catholics' seems to fit.

But with knowledge about the human body changing - don't they see it as somewhat acceptable to change too? They even said there's a possibility that there's other life in the universe - but still 'no bc' ?
Click to expand...

Are all Catholics married?
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

MaggieD said:
This pretty much sums it up. The Catholic Church believes using birth control is a mortal sin. If one dies in mortal sin, one is damned to hell. Just one more way the Catholic Church is becoming irrelevant.

Birth Control | Catholic Answers
Click to expand...

While I disagree with religion, Catholocism has symbols that reflect the real moment as it functions all the time within their version of Hell, Puratory, and Heaven. Where both Hell and Heaven have 9 tiers of chain of command.

Look to the substances of symbolism in orchestrating reality to rule the now moment with Keep It Simple Stupid. Theory and theology work all the time in using both to fabriccate another incomplete belief while real works the same way every generation humans remain male and female ancestors of their specific ancestry not knowing everything really going on now.

Playing all sides against the middle making sure those in the middle stay silent or face the extremists on all sides coming after their sole existence and family. First trial for slander in attacking character. Then persecuted for treason or blasphemy to the ideologies of their own family and community. Insulate and isolate and the reason no body can fight city hall and survive at any level of church, state, or economic axioms of adopt or be extinguished from collective societal evolution by what ever means it takes vernacularly or physically and those in charge never have to apply the social justification.

Humanity's dark matter of positive thinking.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Insurance not covering birth control is antiquated. But that's the Catholic Church. The Church has lost huge amounts of respect recently. This was spearheaded with ignoring and protecting child abuser priests, relocating them to new areas. That came back to bite them. When I was a teen, quite a few of the girls from the local catholic school were considered loose. Of course, parents would send them to that school, thinking it would be strict, thus safe. Kid's have a way of making that sort of thing backfire.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Aunt Spiker said:
I am lost on this - I know what the Catholic Church says 'about it' - but that doesn't explain *what* is actually wrong with using birth control to not get pregnant until you're ready when married.

Explain - in ways the Church hasn't tried to.

Do Catholics all agree with the Church's view are are there those who are Catholics who still use birth control eventhough they're told not to?

How does the Catholic Church view these parisioners who go against their 'authority' on the matter?
Click to expand...

no, a majority of catholic women use birth control, but of course the church doesn't know the individuals who do. and fwwiw, i don't believe most priests care either.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Daktoria said:
Are all Catholics married?
Click to expand...

The original question, in post number 1, was about the use of birth control among married catholic couples.

So in the context of the original question - yes.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

I think the Catholics are incredibly wrong when it comes to birth control and there really is no sound Biblical basis behind banning all birth controls... Also, the concept of a mortal sin is stupid imo.
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Dragonfly said:
The original question, in post number 1, was about the use of birth control among married catholic couples.

So in the context of the original question - yes.
Click to expand...

That's true, but right now, Obama is considering mandating Catholic institutions to provide birth control among married and unmarried.

Considering the amount of topic drift levied against me, it's only fair to point this out.

-----

EDIT: I take that back. The OP was more general:

I am lost on this - I know what the Catholic Church says 'about it' - but that doesn't explain *what* is actually wrong with using birth control to not get pregnant until you're ready when married.
Click to expand...

Again, birth control is imperfect.
 
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Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Dittohead not! said:
There is nothing wrong with birth control. There is something very wrong about the government mandating that a church pay for something that is against its belief system, however.
Click to expand...

1. This is already law in 28 states, and yet people are still able to practice their religion just fine. Apparently it's only a big deal when Obama is linked to it.
Affordable Care Act Rules on Expanding Access to Preventive Services for Women | HealthCare.gov
This proposal is modeled on the most common exemption available in the 28 states that already require insurance companies to cover contraception.
Click to expand...

2. Actual churches and religious non-profits are exempt. Only hospitals and universities that happen to be catholic would have to follow the law, which many of them already have plans that cover birth control. If they have that big of a problem with it, and believe it to be a "mortal sin", maybe they should actually teach that to their own people before they expect the civilized world to accept their ridiculous beliefs as a good enough reason to stop a completely logical and common sense regulation that would end in less accidental pregnancies.

Many Catholic Universities, Hospitals Already Cover Contraception In Their Health Insurance Plans | ThinkProgress
 
Re: What's wrong with birth control?

Daktoria said:
That's true, but right now, Obama is considering mandating Catholic institutions to provide birth control among married and unmarried.

Considering the amount of topic drift levied against me, it's only fair to point this out.
Click to expand...

This is why the United States Constitution was separation from Church and State, not of Church and State. Not that they didn't want to incorporate the best of each because they did want balance between them all. Balance of powers so the sole gender could have their own lifetime being themselves not a collective ideology.

That is what America was about. One lifetime cannot live alone or survive a species, but understanding life as life works everything here, then a balance can exist between humans wanting to rule eternity now and being part in now always here.

Please, read the substance described in the Constitution because reality never knows what it has until it is lost for real.
 
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