Christianity and Homosexuality

As many of you know, homosexuality is now "in."

There have been many repeated attacks against Christianity/the religious for following the scriptures that denounce homosexuality.

The thing is, as what it seems from "Modern" Christians, it's no longer cool to listen to those scriptures.

So, what're Christians et al to do?

Do we keep holding onto these scriptures or do you give in and ignore them? Quite a few Christian sects have "turned" and now ignore those scriptures in the NT/OT, and more turnabout will undoubtedly happen in the decades to come.

What does this mean? What could it mean if God disagrees with modern society? Does it stand that, according to Christianity, a lot of people whether religious or not will be screwed, literally, in the afterlife, assuming the Word of God is true?

I don't know.

How do Christians who hold to these scriptures manage/cope with this "change"? How do you even argue your moral case against homosexuality? Does it even matter any more? To those who have even a shread of belief/adherence to the Scriptures, is this a sign of the times to come? Not sure, really.

We're at a crossroads, folks. More and more Christians are being demonized/shunned for even believing the homosexuality is a sin, and more and more, as time goes by, Christians become weaker as the nation becomes more and more decadent. What happens when scriptures on homosexuality begin to disappear off the record? It's not like it'd be a big deal, right, if most churches already ignored them? Who would care about the difference?

These are interesting times. How are Christians to continue on in their belief against homosexuality?

You stick by what you really truly believe, of course.


At the same time, I think making too big of an issue out of homosexuality is a mistake.... frankly we have bigger fish to fry, IMO.

Goshin said:

You stick by what you really truly believe, of course.


At the same time, I think making too big of an issue out of homosexuality is a mistake.... frankly we have bigger fish to fry, IMO.

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Yes, you stick by what you truly believe. And you keep working on extracting the timber from your own eye rather than worrying about splinters (or timbers) in others' eyes. We see only in part whereas our Creator sees all. Let Him sort us all out. His is the only judgment that matters.

It might be worth pointing out that it is not simply Scripture that condemns homosexuality. Whether through Platonic, Aristotelian-Thomistic or some related symbolic and metaphysical/philosophical/theological school of wisdom, traditional Christianity has always defended, philosophically and metaphysically, its objection to homosexuality, and the rest of our sexual morality. Or in other words, traditional Christians have always added intellectual, symbolic and rational arguments to the command of Scripture, so you shouldn't think you are just blindly following Scripture in this.

You can always come over to the dark side, and stop believing it is a sin

Sincerely a gay Christian.

Your Star said:

You can always come over to the dark side, and stop believing it is a sin Sincerely a gay Christian.

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Never. Let's also stop believing adultery, lust, and fornication are sins, and still call ourselves Christians. You know what, let's go a step further. Let's erase from the Bible Sodom and Gomorrha and any references to perversion. I know you want to be accepted as a Christian, but in the eyes of God and His Word it's a sin.

Wake said:

Never. Let's also stop believing adultery, lust, and fornication are sins, and still call ourselves Christians. You know what, let's go a step further. Let's erase from the Bible Sodom and Gomorrha and any references to perversion. I know you want to be accepted as a Christian, but in the eyes of God and His Word it's a sin.

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I've read the passages, done a lot of research, and truly believe it's not a sin. It's not like I ignored them on a whim, you can believe what you want, but don't you dare believe you speak for God.

Yes, it's a sin. And I can think of plenty of other ones. Unless you yourself are sinless, and you are not, your time would be better spent focusing on what you need to be doing....

And then there's the whole "Hate the sin, but love the sinner" thing.

Further, there are Christian gays who choose to remain celibate. So the next time you see someone in church who obviously presents as gay, you might want to remember that too.

Wake said:

So, what're Christians et al to do?

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1 --read the red letters

2 -- follow them

3 -- conclude that if it was really important it would appear in red.

It's important for those of faith to stand firm in that faith, to not be bullied into going along. But it's also important to try not to judge others.

Your Star said:

You can always come over to the dark side, and stop believing it is a sin

Sincerely a gay Christian.

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I believe that you sincerely believe that it isn't a sin.

I disagree with you on that, obviously.... but I'm also sure you've seen the counter-arguments and scriptural references and so on. If that has not persuaded you, then I see no point in belaboring it: You've chosen what you're going to believe, and I've chosen what I'm going to believe, and why.

I bear you no ill-will... in point of fact I find you rather likeable. We simply disagree about something.... well, woop-te-do, it isn't like that is anything unusual now is it? We can still coexist, I imagine.

Gardener said:

1 --read the red letters2 -- follow them3 -- conclude that if it was really important it would appear in red.

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That is a fallacious, old argument. With your misguided view, you drop all of the OT and gut most of the NT. No, that is narrow thinking, so that is not plausible.

Your Star said:

I've read the passages, done a lot of research, and truly believe it's not a sin. It's not like I ignored them on a whim, you can believe what you want, but don't you dare believe you speak for God.

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The Church speaks for`God, and it is the unanimous verdict of the Scripture, Fathers and the Church that it is a sin, though the goes for all sins and homosexuality shouldn't overly tax our attention.

Goshin said:

I believe that you sincerely believe that it isn't a sin.

I disagree with you on that, obviously.... but I'm also sure you've seen the counter-arguments and scriptural references and so on. If that has not persuaded you, then I see no point in belaboring it: You've chosen what you're going to believe, and I've chosen what I'm going to believe, and why.

I bear you no ill-will... in point of fact I find you rather likeable. We simply disagree about something.... well, woop-te-do, it isn't like that is anything unusual now is it? We can still coexist, I imagine.

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And I'm assuming we agree on the big things, you know, Jesus, and the whole love thy neighbor stuff, and that's whats really important.

Also I could post all the info that convinced me it wasn't a sin, but I'm not sure that would convince anybody here, and plus that's a lot of work, and I have a paper due Tuesday that still needs some serious work. Finals week sucks :lol:

Most of the churches I've attended for any extended period believed as I do, that it is a sin.... but most did not focus on it to any great degree either. It was mentioned from time to time, but not that often.

That's as it should be. We have other big issues to deal with after all: our own horrendous divorce rate, adulteries and lies, mistreatment of spouses and children... all things relating to our own family lives that need to be addressed strongly and vigorously. I count myself blessed to have had several pastors who were very strong on teaching how the Christian family should be: rooted in love and self-sacrifice, purity of committment and honesty, and of course God-centered and not self-centered.

DP Christians are very much a minority on this forum, as I'm sure most of you have noticed. Even so, there's actually only one or two DP Christians who start many threads about homosexuality... Wake being the main one for a while now.

Wake.... why so many homo threads? It seems like as soon as one falls inactive you start two more. Why? Seems to me that all that can be said, has been said. Frankly I think it is time to move on to some other topic, isn't it?

Or is it just that this one is so controversial that some can't leave it alone? It's not like we haven't got plenty of other things to worry about.

I'm not saying to drop the topic entirely, I just don't know why it takes up so much DP bandwidth when we've already said about everything there is to say on the subject of homosexuality and Christianity.

Homosexuality is a sin, according to Christianity. What would I do if I was a Christian?

I would accept & understand that the Bible was written 2,000 years ago, during a time when we as human beings understood very little about human psychology & biology, and simply disregard the homophobic passages of the NT and OT as simply a sign of the times.

Wessexman said:

The Church speaks for`God, and it is the unanimous verdict of the Scripture, Fathers and the Church that it is a sin, though the goes for all sins and homosexuality shouldn't overly tax our attention.

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And there are many churches that would agree with me, along with many Biblical scholars. Besides, I have a personal relationship with God, I don't need "The Church" to tell me what I should believe.

nota bene said:

It's important for those of faith to stand firm in that faith, to not be bullied into going along.

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And therein lies a very large part of our problem.

Poll after poll shows that a solid majority of Americans are opposed to sexual immorality, including homosexuality. We're opposed to allowing it to become an integral part of our culture, and we are opposed to being compelled to treat it as if it is normal and proper and harmless.

But a very loud minority have managed to create a culture in which many of us who know what is right and what is wrong are intimidated or shamed into silence, by the fear that we will be labeled as bigots for standing for what we know is right.

I say shame on those who have allowed themselves to be silenced in this manner. If you are too cowardly to stand for what is right, then you are no better than those you fail to stand up against. The ruin that they will bring upon our society, by undermining the family as its basic unit; you bear as much culpability for allowing that to happen. As Einstein said, “…the world is in greater peril from those who tolerate or encourage evil than from those who actually commit it.”

Wake said:

That is a fallacious, old argument. With your misguided view, you drop all of the OT and gut most of the NT. No, that is narrow thinking, so that is not plausible.

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If a person thinks following Jesus is misguided, then there really isn't much more to say on the subject, I guess.

Bob Blaylock said:

And therein lies a very large part of our problem.

Poll after poll shows that a solid majority of Americans are opposed to sexual immorality, including homosexuality. We're opposed to allowing it to become an integral part of our culture, and we are opposed to being compelled to treat it as if it is normal and proper and harmless....

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and yet, many other acts of so-called "sodomy" are accepted or ignored in our society, while a disproportionate amount of hatred is directed towards gays and homosexuality.


as for Jesus, I think if he lived in our society, he would recognize that gays are born that way, have no choice in the matter, and would save his wrath for child-molesters, murderers, & rapists.

Thunder said:

and yet, many other acts of so-called "sodomy" are accepted or ignored in our society, while a disproportionate amount of hatred is directed towards gays and homosexuality.

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The controversiality of the issue draws a lot of media attention, and extremist churches like the Phelps draw the most. As I've said before, that doesn't mean the average US Protestant church spends all day every Sunday fretting over what them gays are gonna do next... most churches I've attended don't actually spend much time talking about homosexuality.

A lot of this seeming hysteria is just media hype.

The position of most conservative churches is "yes, we think it is a sin.... along with adultery, idolatry, gluttony, alcoholism, lovelessness and uncharitable-ness, and we preach against all of those about the same."

It is because I fear for the future, Goshin. In the next hundred years how warped and twisted will Christianity and scripture be, until it is absolutely not what God intended? I suppose I can focus on other equally fissured issues, like abortion, the "isms", this that and the other. What sucks is that every single opinion is not founded on 100% certain ground, so I will undoubtedly always have these questions with no absolute answers. To exist without answers regarding existence. It is cruel, yet poetic.

Your Star said:

And there are many churches that would agree with me, along with many Biblical scholars. Besides, I have a personal relationship with God, I don't need "The Church" to tell me what I should believe.

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I have come across no church or theologian that agrees with you and approaches the issue in any way similar to traditional Christianity, and does not smuggle a lot of modernist and post-modernist assumptions into their position. Such people should be ignored, and certainly not compared to the Fathers.

Wake said:

It is because I fear for the future, Goshin. In the next hundred years how warped and twisted will Christianity and scripture be, until it is absolutely not what God intended? I suppose I can focus on other equally fissured issues, like abortion, the "isms", this that and the other. What sucks is that every single opinion is not founded on 100% certain ground, so I will undoubtedly always have these questions with no absolute answers. To exist without answers regarding existence. It is cruel, yet poetic.

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Look at any history book, and you will see Christianity has changed since it's founding, a lot, just like every other religion. It's nothing new, I mean just look at the reformation, people from back then were saying the same thing about Martin Luther, and his followers. Religious scholars were saying the same thing when the King James Bible was translated, it's nothing new.

Wessexman said:

I have come across no church or theologian that agrees with you and approaches the issue in any way similar to traditional Christianity, and does not smuggle a lot of modernist and post-modernist assumptions into their position. Such people should be ignored, and certainly not compared to the Fathers.

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Then you haven't looked at all.

And why should we be ignored, just because we disagree? On something so minor?