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Christianity and Homosexuality

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As many of you know, homosexuality is now "in."

There have been many repeated attacks against Christianity/the religious for following the scriptures that denounce homosexuality.

The thing is, as what it seems from "Modern" Christians, it's no longer cool to listen to those scriptures.

So, what're Christians et al to do?

Do we keep holding onto these scriptures or do you give in and ignore them? Quite a few Christian sects have "turned" and now ignore those scriptures in the NT/OT, and more turnabout will undoubtedly happen in the decades to come.

What does this mean? What could it mean if God disagrees with modern society? Does it stand that, according to Christianity, a lot of people whether religious or not will be screwed, literally, in the afterlife, assuming the Word of God is true?

I don't know.

How do Christians who hold to these scriptures manage/cope with this "change"? How do you even argue your moral case against homosexuality? Does it even matter any more? To those who have even a shread of belief/adherence to the Scriptures, is this a sign of the times to come? Not sure, really.

We're at a crossroads, folks. More and more Christians are being demonized/shunned for even believing the homosexuality is a sin, and more and more, as time goes by, Christians become weaker as the nation becomes more and more decadent. What happens when scriptures on homosexuality begin to disappear off the record? It's not like it'd be a big deal, right, if most churches already ignored them? Who would care about the difference?

These are interesting times. How are Christians to continue on in their belief against homosexuality?

All I know about religious people and their judgement of other is that in doing so - to uphold the 'word of god' . . . they ignore the other 'words of god' like the Parable of the Good Samaritan and are intent on casting the first stone.

I've met few religious people who actually live up to their own beliefs.
 
The controversiality of the issue draws a lot of media attention, and extremist churches like the Phelps draw the most. As I've said before, that doesn't mean the average US Protestant church spends all day every Sunday fretting over what them gays are gonna do next... most churches I've attended don't actually spend much time talking about homosexuality.

A lot of this seeming hysteria is just media hype.

The position of most conservative churches is "yes, we think it is a sin.... along with adultery, idolatry, gluttony, alcoholism, lovelessness and uncharitable-ness, and we preach against all of those about the same."

well, to an outsider, it appeats that gays get a lot more of the wrath than adulterers, idolaters, & alchoholics.

I mean, how many threads are there in this forum dealing with adultery, idolatry, and alchoholism?

...........and how many dealing with homosexuality?

clearly, homosexuality & gays get religious hatred in disproportion to their numbers.
 
I think of myself as a christian pagan. The God I believe in with all my heart may have said it's a sin, but I can't and refuse to believe He wants any of His children to not love or be loved. So those gays who have partners...I say continue to love each other. Because God IS love.
 
Then you haven't looked at all.

And why should we be ignored, just because we disagree? On something so minor?
Would you mind offering an argument for it that isn't replete with modernist and post-modernist assumptions and perspectives? That sees sex, gender and sexual relationships in one of the various, but close and interrelated, ways traditional Christianity has tended to(whether Pauline, Augustinian or somewhat more positive, but closely related, other perspectives.).
 
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It is because I fear for the future, Goshin. In the next hundred years how warped and twisted will Christianity and scripture be, until it is absolutely not what God intended? I suppose I can focus on other equally fissured issues, like abortion, the "isms", this that and the other. What sucks is that every single opinion is not founded on 100% certain ground, so I will undoubtedly always have these questions with no absolute answers. To exist without answers regarding existence. It is cruel, yet poetic.


Don't fear for the future, Wake. It is in God's hands, as are we. You're just a wisp of smoke trying to turn the wind.

2Ths2 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first (apostasia), and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"


Yet God always has a remnant who believe...

Rev12 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."
 
well, to an outsider, it appeats that gays get a lot more of the wrath than adulterers, idolaters, & alchoholics.

I mean, how many threads are there in this forum dealing with adultery, idolatry, and alchoholism?

...........and how many dealing with homosexuality?

clearly, homosexuality & gays get religious hatred in disproportion to their numbers.



As I've mentioned, there's only a handful of posters who start many/any threads on homosexuality and religion. Mostly Wake. Nor is DP remotely representative of the outside world.
 
Poll after poll shows that a solid majority of Americans are opposed to sexual immorality, including homosexuality. We're opposed to allowing it to become an integral part of our culture, and we are opposed to being compelled to treat it as if it is normal and proper and harmless.

Actually, polls show support for gay rights in general and SSM in particular

I long for the day when christians start taking the Ninth Commandment as seriously as they take Leviticus
 
Actually, polls show support for gay rights in general and SSM in particular

I long for the day when christians start taking the Ninth Commandment as seriously as they take Leviticus


Thou shalt not bear false witness? I grant you that the ninth is a serious charge, as are all the Ten Commandments, but I don't see how this applies directly to the topic at hand.
 
well, to an outsider, it appeats that gays get a lot more of the wrath than adulterers, idolaters, & alchoholics.

I mean, how many threads are there in this forum dealing with adultery, idolatry, and alchoholism?

...........and how many dealing with homosexuality?

clearly, homosexuality & gays get religious hatred in disproportion to their numbers.
Many, including the media and establishment in much of the West, try and defend homosexuality as valid and legitimate, indeed to be celebrated equally with heterosexuality. They don't really defend the rest of these to the same degree.

Fornication is something almost as often defended, but it is not quite as bad according to traditional Christian position, because it doesn't involve the same issues of nature and gender. However we should attack those who excuse fornication and cohabitation more strongly than it often is.
 
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Thou shalt not bear false witness? I grant you that the ninth is a serious charge, as are all the Ten Commandments, but I don't see how this applies directly to the topic at hand.

It applies to the quote I posted, which claimed a majority of americans were opposed to homosexuality
 
Many, including the media and establishment in much of the West, try and defend homosexuality as valid and legitimate, indeed to be celebrated equally with heterosexuality. They don't really defend the rest of these to the same degree.

Fornication is something almost as often defended, but it is not quite as bad according to traditional Christian position, because it doesn't involve the same issues of nature and gender. However we should attack those who excuse fornication and cohabitation more strongly than it often is.

No, the media never promotes fornification and cohabitation. :roll:

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It applies to the quote I posted, which claimed a majority of americans were opposed to homosexuality
What you said didn't technically contradict his post. It is possible to support legality of homosexuality but find it immoral. Every time Americans have had popular votes on 'homosexual marriage' they have rejected it.

Personally I'd question many of those polls. Do they really give the correct weight to Alabama and Idaho natives, as compared to the weight they give to say the North East or West Coast?
 
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It applies to the quote I posted, which claimed a majority of americans were opposed to homosexuality

OIC.


Well, as I understand it the big national polls are pretty close, and polls are subject to manipulation.
However, when put to a vote (as in Cali's caucus a while back), it seems to get shot down by the majority of voters still, so the point could be arguable.

One thing for certain, it is still a very divisive issue.
 
It is because I fear for the future, Goshin. In the next hundred years how warped and twisted will Christianity and scripture be, until it is absolutely not what God intended? I suppose I can focus on other equally fissured issues, like abortion, the "isms", this that and the other. What sucks is that every single opinion is not founded on 100% certain ground, so I will undoubtedly always have these questions with no absolute answers. To exist without answers regarding existence. It is cruel, yet poetic.

Hasn't that already taken place in the current scriptures? Not all are there. All have been transcribed many times by many people over the years. The christians of then are not the christians of now any more than they will be the christians of tomorrow.
 
What you said didn't technically contradict his post. It is possible to support legality of homosexuality but find it immoral. Every time Americans have had popular votes on 'homosexual marriage' they have rejected it.

Once again, the Ninth Commandment comes into play

Personally I'd question many of those polls. Do they really give the correct weight to Alabama and Idaho natives, as compared to the weight they give to say the North East or West Coast?

I see. When you thought the polls supported your false claim, you did not question the polls. Now that I've shown that the polls prove you wrong, you have questions.
 
Hasn't that already taken place in the current scriptures? Not all are there. All have been transcribed many times by many people over the years. The christians of then are not the christians of now any more than they will be the christians of tomorrow.
No, but traditional Christians has kept many of the similar doctrines, assumptions, perspectives and so forth. This is less so in the West, and particularly in Protestantism and Post Vatican II Roman Catholicism, but the core of the same spiritual relationship and viewpoint still exists even in these denominations, despite all the rationalism, nominalism, humanism and modernism that has crept in over the last millenia in Western Christianity.
 
OIC.


Well, as I understand it the big national polls are pretty close, and polls are subject to manipulation.
However, when put to a vote (as in Cali's caucus a while back), it seems to get shot down by the majority of voters still, so the point could be arguable.

One thing for certain, it is still a very divisive issue.

The claim was that it wasn't even close:

a solid majority of Americans are opposed to sexual immorality, including homosexuality
 
Hasn't that already taken place in the current scriptures? Not all are there. All have been transcribed many times by many people over the years. The christians of then are not the christians of now any more than they will be the christians of tomorrow.


That is a complex question, but in point of fact many early texts survive and are still in use for translation purposes. Thousands of early texts have been found to show an astonishing degree of textual consistency and accuracy.

More importantly is the question of faith: if there is a Creator God, omniscient and omnipotent, who cares about his creation and has a message for us, does it not stand to reason that He could preserve that message over time? That is what I believe.
 
Once again, the Ninth Commandment comes into play



I see. When you thought the polls supported your false claim, you did not question the polls. Now that I've shown that the polls prove you wrong, you have questions.
You're not making sense. Supporting legalised homosexuality and thinking homosexuality moral are not the mutually exclusive, just like the case of adultery and fornication. I didn't think the polls supported my claims, I said when there has been a popular vote in the US 'gay marriage' has always been rejected as far as I know. Only the courts and legislatures have forced it in various jurisdictions. So again I'm not sure what points you are trying to make. I stand by my question about the representative nature of these polls, whether the North East and West Coast aren't represented more than much of middle America, simply based on where the polling agencies are likely to be located(ie in cities, probably in the North-East or West Coast and not in small town Oklahoma or Nevada.).
 
Hasn't that already taken place in the current scriptures? Not all are there. All have been transcribed many times by many people over the years. The christians of then are not the christians of now any more than they will be the christians of tomorrow.

Actually, Jesus was one of the biggest "warper and twister" of Scripture (as presented in the OT), yet the christian homophobes still cling to Leviticus and other OT scripture to justify their hate, even though Jesus promoted a Gospel of Love
 
You're not making sense. Supporting legalised homosexuality and thinking homosexuality moral are not the mutually exclusive, just like the case of adultery and fornication. I didn't think the polls supported my claims, I said when there has been a popular vote in the US 'gay marriage' has always been rejected as far as I know. Only the courts and legislatures have forced it in various jurisdictions. So again I'm not sure what points you are trying to make. I stand by my question about the representative nature of these polls, whether the North East and West Coast aren't represented more than much of middle America, simply based on where the polling agencies are likely to be located(ie in cities, probably in the North-East or West Coast and not in small town Oklahoma or Nevada.).

Again, the Ninth comes into play.

What you said was "a solid majority of Americans are opposed to sexual immorality, including homosexuality". Your current statements about popular votes are what you resorted to after I proved your initial claim was false. Furthermore, since many people do not vote, your equating the popular vote with "what people beleive" is dishonest sophism
 
Actually, Jesus was one of the biggest "warper and twister" of Scripture (as presented in the OT), yet the christian homophobes still cling to Leviticus and other OT scripture to justify their hate, even though Jesus promoted a Gospel of Love

There are NT scriptures against homosexuality as well. Surely you know that by now, it's been talked about on DP ad-nauseum.
 
Actually, Jesus was one of the biggest "warper and twister" of Scripture (as presented in the OT), yet the christian homophobes still cling to Leviticus and other OT scripture to justify their hate, even though Jesus promoted a Gospel of Love
Jesus promoted a gospel of perfection. If one reads Christ's gospel, it is not some Rousseauian sentimentalism, he did not say lets get rid of all real natures and realities based on some sentimental love. He actually preached a gospel which claimed that he who lusts after a woman commits adultery in his heart. His gospel is in a sense an esotericism, a path for saints. It is also a highly symbolic and sacramental gospel, fulfilling Old Testament prophecy, foreshadowing events to come and drawing the spiritual nature of even the most mundane activities and objects. The Apostles and the Church drew out, though not in opposition to Christ of course, the more exoteric doctrine, for the less exalted of us to follow. St.Paul lays out the basics on homosexuality, which Christ did not mean to dispute.
 
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Again, the Ninth comes into play.

What you said was "a solid majority of Americans are opposed to sexual immorality, including homosexuality". Your current statements about popular votes are what you resorted to after I proved your initial claim was false. Furthermore, since many people do not vote, your equating the popular vote with "what people beleive" is dishonest sophism
You are confusing me with someone else.
 
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