ID & Religion - Page 2

obvious Child · 05-29-08, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hymns

ID is based not solely on faith, but of observations of the natural world. It came about the same way evolution did:
EVOLUTION: Some guy looked at natural evidence he found and determined that the evidence supported a new theory that can't neccessarily be proved by scientific means, only suggested and proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Come again? Care to address why ID only came about after the total failure of Evangelical Creationists to peddle Creationism as fact?

Furthermore, large parts of evolution can be proved by reasonable doubt.

Quote:

ID: Some guy(s) looked at natural evidence he (they) found and determined that sed evidence supported a new theory that can't neccessarily be proved by scientific means, only suggested and proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

Except you missed a key point. Current scientific means.

Intelligence design can be properly, accurately and easily defined:

If you do not know or cannot explain NOW therefore Goddidit.

How is that not religion?

The Baron · 05-29-08, 10:13 PM

I’m not an “Intelligent Design” guy. I’m a Creationist so I have no stake in this but the best way I’ve heard it explained is that Intelligent Design limits itself to design that can be observed in the natural world.

It does not speculate as to the implications of observing design found in the natural world leaving such matters to philosophers and theologians.

But this is only my understanding of the matter.

DarkWizard12 · 05-29-08, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

Come again? Care to address why ID only came about after the total failure of Evangelical Creationists to peddle Creationism as fact?

Furthermore, large parts of evolution can be proved by reasonable doubt.

Except you missed a key point. Current scientific means.

Intelligence design can be properly, accurately and easily defined:

If you do not know or cannot explain NOW therefore Goddidit.

How is that not religion?

Ok, your going to have to be serious about this.

ID is NOT religion in any sense of the word. ID, within itself, has no relevence to any major or minor religion and supports no thought upon "God" or "Creationism". ID is probably more off and insult to modern-day christianity than athiesm itself. Supporters of ID include those of Richard C Hoagland, who rejects the idea that ID is religion because ID is NO the intelligent design from a Super natural god but Intelligent Design from natural beings(i.e. aliens, ET).

go research some Richard C, Hogland.

justone · 05-29-08, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

Come again? Care to address why ID only came about after the total failure of Evangelical Creationists to peddle Creationism as fact?

Care to address why ID only came about after the total failure of Evangelical Creationists to peddle Creationism as fact

Come again? Care to prove that ID only came about after the total failure of Evangelical Creationists to peddle Creationism as fact?

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

Furthermore, large parts of evolution can be proved by reasonable doubt.

What particular ‘’large’’ parts? Tights? Breasts? Legs? And what (are) is about the small parts, - heart, liver and kidneys?

The new to the world of sane people ''proof by reasonable doubt'' is beyond any reasonable questions. I would not even know how to address such a state of an atheistic mind. "The atheistic idea is so nonsensical that I cannot put it into words." – Lord Kelvin Kelvin Is Lord!

obvious Child · 05-29-08, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkWizard12

Ok, your going to have to be serious about this.

ID is NOT religion in any sense of the word. ID, within itself, has no relevence to any major or minor religion and supports no thought upon "God" or "Creationism". ID is probably more off and insult to modern-day christianity than athiesm itself. Supporters of ID include those of Richard C Hoagland, who rejects the idea that ID is religion because ID is NO the intelligent design from a Super natural god but Intelligent Design from natural beings(i.e. aliens, ET).

go research some Richard C, Hogland.

Then we need to separate our intelligent design factions. We are talking about the Christian backed one, not the alien version. In fact this the first time I've seen anyone discuss that branch. Exogenesis generally doesn't get talked about at all.

And what do you mean ID has no relevance? Why is that the primary backers of ID are all Christians? Why is that some of the biggest supporters are Creationists?

obvious Child · 05-29-08, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justone

Come again? Care to prove that ID only came about after the total failure of Evangelical Creationists to peddle Creationism as fact?

Define 'prove.' Literal Creationism was evicted from public schools. The only way that Creationism can get back in is under the guise of being 'science.'

Quote:

What particular ‘’large’’ parts? Tights? Breasts? Legs? And what (are) is about the small parts, - heart, liver and kidneys?

The new to the world of sane people ''proof by reasonable doubt'' is beyond any reasonable questions. I would not even know how to address such a state of an atheistic mind. "The atheistic idea is so nonsensical that I cannot put it into words." – Lord Kelvin Kelvin Is Lord!

Apparently if one doesn't accept creationism and does accept evolution, they are atheists. I'll be sure to tell millions of Shintos, Buddhists, Metaphorical Christians/Jews/Muslims all of the other religious folk that they are actually atheists.

Start reading:
29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: the Scientific Case for Common Descent

DarkWizard12 · 05-29-08, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

Then we need to separate our intelligent design factions. We are talking about the Christian backed one, not the alien version. In fact this the first time I've seen anyone discuss that branch. Exogenesis generally doesn't get talked about at all.

And what do you mean ID has no relevance? Why is that the primary backers of ID are all Christians? Why is that some of the biggest supporters are Creationists?

thats the fault of the creationists for confusing ID and creationism. They are not the same at all. Its like the difference between a Laptop and a Desktop. Sure, they are both computer, but completely different species of model(just try to replace a video card on a laptop). Same goes for ID and Creationism. You get the same result, we are created, but the process is MUCH different.

Jerry · 05-30-08, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

How is Intelligent Design not Religion?

How is a tire not a car?

Mach · 05-30-08, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Baron

the best way I’ve heard it explained is that Intelligent Design limits itself to design that can be observed in the natural world.

There is no evidence that life was designed. That's why it's a faith-based claim. The most notable modern source for faith based claims are the religions of the world. It is no accident it is considered correctly to be a religious claim of faith.

ID appears to have origianted with religious crazy folks, it's not a secret:
Of Pandas and People - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Foundation for Thought and Ethics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's religious propoganda, nothing more.

Heh, thought and ethics. Those bastards are so ironically unethical.

-Mach

Mach · 05-30-08, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkWizard12

thats the fault of the creationists for confusing ID and creationism. They are not the same at all. Its like the difference between a Laptop and a Desktop. Sure, they are both computer, but completely different species of model(just try to replace a video card on a laptop). Same goes for ID and Creationism. You get the same result, we are created, but the process is MUCH different.

You really believe that? Come on DW.

Life was created by god.
Remove "god" beause it's not constituional.
Life was created by <blank>.

The phrase originates with christianity in this case. The proponents of ID were christians.

It's not a big deal, it's just christians trying to teach faith as something useful again. Just like they try to teach absitence only works, and faith healing works, and life continues after life stops.

-Mach